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Author
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#41 - 2012-05-21 17:39:42 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Morganta wrote:
glad you have programming skills

but you're going to have to be a bit more credible and transparent in you intend to get anywhere

eve isn't Disney on Ice (which is an overblown shill show designed to separate parents from their dollars at the merch counter)

1 52' truck of audio & lighting
1 52' truck of production/wardrobe/props
1 52' truck of merchandise


Thanks for the heads up. I like working harder for unreal game currency then I do for real money (disneyonice,monsterjam,etc).


pro tip, if your gonna namedrop, disney on ice and monsterjam are probably not going to give you the best mileage

hell, my last Disney gig was better than that and all I did was set up projection for a Vanessa Williams special
you can see my work at 0:30 and in all the shots when Williams is on the sound stage with all the screens around her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHhagNu_Bo
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#42 - 2012-05-21 17:40:47 UTC
Hello,

I don't want you to spend undo time on this but I really like what direction you are taking this anything player driven is good for the game. As to the accidental death in fleet fights. Is there a way you can have your system only pay for people who register on your board and Take the contract. This would also help you as you can set taking the contract at a small fee say 5 mill isk and then give them a month to collect on this. After that they need to re up the isk to be able to hunt said person. Just and Idea to help you out.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#43 - 2012-05-21 17:41:32 UTC
Morganta wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Morganta wrote:
glad you have programming skills

but you're going to have to be a bit more credible and transparent in you intend to get anywhere

eve isn't Disney on Ice (which is an overblown shill show designed to separate parents from their dollars at the merch counter)

1 52' truck of audio & lighting
1 52' truck of production/wardrobe/props
1 52' truck of merchandise


Thanks for the heads up. I like working harder for unreal game currency then I do for real money (disneyonice,monsterjam,etc).


pro tip, if your gonna namedrop, disney on ice and monsterjam are probably not going to give you the best mileage

hell, my last Disney gig was better than that and all I did was set up projection for a Vanessa Williams special
you can see my work at 0:30 and in all the shots when Williams is on the sound stage with all the screens around her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHhagNu_Bo


Oh wow, I forgot about Vanessa Williams... I think that in itself says a lot.

Name dropping Disney on Ice and MonsterJam was only for giving a sense of development experience. Not to make people like you jealous.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#44 - 2012-05-21 17:47:27 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Morganta wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Morganta wrote:
glad you have programming skills

but you're going to have to be a bit more credible and transparent in you intend to get anywhere

eve isn't Disney on Ice (which is an overblown shill show designed to separate parents from their dollars at the merch counter)

1 52' truck of audio & lighting
1 52' truck of production/wardrobe/props
1 52' truck of merchandise


Thanks for the heads up. I like working harder for unreal game currency then I do for real money (disneyonice,monsterjam,etc).


pro tip, if your gonna namedrop, disney on ice and monsterjam are probably not going to give you the best mileage

hell, my last Disney gig was better than that and all I did was set up projection for a Vanessa Williams special
you can see my work at 0:30 and in all the shots when Williams is on the sound stage with all the screens around her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHhagNu_Bo


Oh wow, I forgot about Vanessa Williams... I think that in itself says a lot.

Name dropping Disney on Ice and MonsterJam was only for giving a sense of development experience. Not to make people like you jealous.


lololololol

you're doing backend, the fact that its monster jam or monster.com or cookiemonster.com are irrelevant
like the guy detailing the interiors at a carwash saying he works on Porches for a living
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#45 - 2012-05-21 18:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
Morganta wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Morganta wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Morganta wrote:
glad you have programming skills

but you're going to have to be a bit more credible and transparent in you intend to get anywhere

eve isn't Disney on Ice (which is an overblown shill show designed to separate parents from their dollars at the merch counter)

1 52' truck of audio & lighting
1 52' truck of production/wardrobe/props
1 52' truck of merchandise


Thanks for the heads up. I like working harder for unreal game currency then I do for real money (disneyonice,monsterjam,etc).


pro tip, if your gonna namedrop, disney on ice and monsterjam are probably not going to give you the best mileage

hell, my last Disney gig was better than that and all I did was set up projection for a Vanessa Williams special
you can see my work at 0:30 and in all the shots when Williams is on the sound stage with all the screens around her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHhagNu_Bo


Oh wow, I forgot about Vanessa Williams... I think that in itself says a lot.

Name dropping Disney on Ice and MonsterJam was only for giving a sense of development experience. Not to make people like you jealous.


lololololol

you're doing backend, the fact that its monster jam or monster.com or cookiemonster.com are irrelevant
like the guy detailing the interiors at a carwash saying he works on Porches for a living


Correction. Like the engineer whom designs and builds the motors for Porsche for a living.
A car wash interior detailer would have closer relation to a blog writer or front end developer than a back end developer.

You obviously have no bearing on what back end web development involves.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#46 - 2012-05-21 18:28:34 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:


You obviously have no bearing on what back end web development involves.


bearing? you mean understanding or concept?

so are you responsible for that horrible get showtimes app on the front page?
and I did mess up... I thought monster jam was that horrible Warner Bros movie with Michael Jordan, didn't realize it got repurposed to a monster truck series.

and sorry to say that site makes my eyes bleed

and overall all I'm seeing is DB queries, there's not even a user login
and ticketmaster uses an api... so what was it you did again?

John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#47 - 2012-05-21 18:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
Morganta wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:


You obviously have no bearing on what back end web development involves.


bearing? you mean understanding or concept?

so are you responsible for that horrible get showtimes app on the front page?
and I did mess up... I thought monster jam was that horrible Warner Bros movie with Michael Jordan, didn't realize it got repurposed to a monster truck series.

and sorry to say that site makes my eyes bleed

and overall all I'm seeing is DB queries, there's not even a user login
and ticketmaster uses an api... so what was it you did again?



Morganta wrote:

lololololol

you're doing backend, the fact that its monster jam or monster.com or cookiemonster.com are irrelevant
like the guy detailing the interiors at a carwash saying he works on Porches for a living


Nope I meant bearing in the same way that you meant Porsches and not Porches.

No i am not responsible for the "terrible showtime app" and no, monsterjam.com has and probably always be for monster trucks and not some terrible Michael Jordan movie, I am no MonStar.

Glad to hear that the site makes your eyes bleed, wait... did I forget to mention that I am not a designer? I didnt create the UI that bothers you so much but if it makes you feel any better you can send a complaint email to monsterjam admins and inform them of the link between your health issue and their UI design. Hopefully after 10 months of passing complaint/fix issue tickets back and forth between all of the corporate bull **** processes, you might get something fixed.

DB queries? of course there are DB queries they have things like... show listings, race results, tv listings... where do you think they store all of this stuff? Maybe they just have trolls typing in lists of show times every time someone wants to see when something starts. (this is why you obviously dont know anything)

Ticket Master does use an API, good job.
The company I worked for is a partner of Ticketmaster, as part of our contract we also maintained a lot of their code as well.

I see you're interested in who I am and what I do, please dig deeper.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#48 - 2012-05-21 20:01:54 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Huh. i think that the one who offers the service is who's got an issue about customer trust, not the customers. You said in a later post that anyone randomly killing a target will get the bounty, and that's silly. If I want someone blown, i wan him blown specifically for messing with me, not because he went to war and got accidentally killed.

And all in all, as i've never been to PvP, how can i check who's been killed, by who, and when? There's not even a single centralyzed repository of verified killmails.

So it looks like "hand money and hope something happens and you get to notice it happened, and also hope it was not an accident". He could go to war and you pay a bounty for nothing, or he could jump on the wrong guy and you would pay a bounty for nothing...

And of course, it all could be an elaborate scam.

You get my point. You are becoming a mediator in anonymous harrassment, and that may go against EVE's ToS unless you can ensure that your website won't allow to put bounties on innocents. Just figure someone patrols a noob system, adding names older than 21 days to a list, and then drops 10 million ISK bounties on all of them. Then CCP notices sbdy is blowing noobs and they all have in common that they've been targetted at your site by anonymous griefers... then you will be in trouble, not the pricks using your website for inducting others to breach the ToS.


Sit down, there is a lot to explain.

Firstly, what you are asking for in regards to having your target blown up only by people with the sole intention of collecting the bounty you've placed is impossible to predict, even by CCP's current bounty system. Do you honestly think that all bounty's collected through the current system are 100% purposely done? I believe its more like %95 of the bounties dispersed through the current system are accidental and most of the time not intentional for the purpose of collecting the bounty. The only people I know who successfully collect bounties by intentionally killing pods live in Rancer, and they stay in Rancer.

What you ask is not only impossible for a 3rd party service but also impossible as a 1st party service (CCP) to implement, there is no way to predict player intent before hand.

You're absolutely correct, it mimics the current bounty system in many ways, the only way it doesn't mimic the bounty system is the way that payouts are made so that people cant exploit the system and collect their own bounty at a massive profit. This is how I intended to create it.

Yes, it could be an elaborate scam, just like EOH poker, Somer Blink and other services that people trust in. There is really no way to rebut this statement other then having a reputable third party holder, which is why last night after mentions of trust arose, I eve mailed a few reputable services so this shouldn't be an issue soon.

There are already mediators in anonymous harassment, pick any high sec merc alliance. Please respond with sections of the EULA that my site would violate, I've already been through this and violate no part of it.

If you plan to raise issues and be taken seriously please respond with a realistic solution as well, there is nothing worse than someone raising impossible issues with no solutions. For example, your issue with how you put "Accidental" death payouts and not having some dedicated white knight with the sole intention of killing your target is like saying we cant have Court cases unless the court can come up with the correct verdict 100% of the time with no faults.


I can come with a simple solution: that users could only put EHL bounties on players they got a kill right on.

I also got a complicated solution: EVE Retaliation
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#49 - 2012-05-21 20:15:33 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Huh. i think that the one who offers the service is who's got an issue about customer trust, not the customers. You said in a later post that anyone randomly killing a target will get the bounty, and that's silly. If I want someone blown, i wan him blown specifically for messing with me, not because he went to war and got accidentally killed.

And all in all, as i've never been to PvP, how can i check who's been killed, by who, and when? There's not even a single centralyzed repository of verified killmails.

So it looks like "hand money and hope something happens and you get to notice it happened, and also hope it was not an accident". He could go to war and you pay a bounty for nothing, or he could jump on the wrong guy and you would pay a bounty for nothing...

And of course, it all could be an elaborate scam.

You get my point. You are becoming a mediator in anonymous harrassment, and that may go against EVE's ToS unless you can ensure that your website won't allow to put bounties on innocents. Just figure someone patrols a noob system, adding names older than 21 days to a list, and then drops 10 million ISK bounties on all of them. Then CCP notices sbdy is blowing noobs and they all have in common that they've been targetted at your site by anonymous griefers... then you will be in trouble, not the pricks using your website for inducting others to breach the ToS.


Sit down, there is a lot to explain.

Firstly, what you are asking for in regards to having your target blown up only by people with the sole intention of collecting the bounty you've placed is impossible to predict, even by CCP's current bounty system. Do you honestly think that all bounty's collected through the current system are 100% purposely done? I believe its more like %95 of the bounties dispersed through the current system are accidental and most of the time not intentional for the purpose of collecting the bounty. The only people I know who successfully collect bounties by intentionally killing pods live in Rancer, and they stay in Rancer.

What you ask is not only impossible for a 3rd party service but also impossible as a 1st party service (CCP) to implement, there is no way to predict player intent before hand.

You're absolutely correct, it mimics the current bounty system in many ways, the only way it doesn't mimic the bounty system is the way that payouts are made so that people cant exploit the system and collect their own bounty at a massive profit. This is how I intended to create it.

Yes, it could be an elaborate scam, just like EOH poker, Somer Blink and other services that people trust in. There is really no way to rebut this statement other then having a reputable third party holder, which is why last night after mentions of trust arose, I eve mailed a few reputable services so this shouldn't be an issue soon.

There are already mediators in anonymous harassment, pick any high sec merc alliance. Please respond with sections of the EULA that my site would violate, I've already been through this and violate no part of it.

If you plan to raise issues and be taken seriously please respond with a realistic solution as well, there is nothing worse than someone raising impossible issues with no solutions. For example, your issue with how you put "Accidental" death payouts and not having some dedicated white knight with the sole intention of killing your target is like saying we cant have Court cases unless the court can come up with the correct verdict 100% of the time with no faults.


I can come with a simple solution: that users could only put EHL bounties on players they got a kill right on.

I also got a complicated solution: EVE Retaliation


I think these are great solutions for the in-game bounty system (although some would probably require more additions to in-game code then CCP devs would like). Unfortunately in the mean time where third party services only have so much access, its impossible for me to know who has kill right on who. The Eve API doesn't provide a call for that sort of information.

There are a few things I agree with in your Eve Retaliation proposal but a lot I disagree with but only because it makes the mechanics very complicated and difficult for new or even seasoned members to completely grasp.

The other issue I see is that this is mainly focusing on kill rights and not bounties, It looks like you're trying to merge the two. Being able to transfer kill rights is something I wish would be a part of the game, I know people that would pay to have kill-rights on certain people as opposed to get paid by the original kill rights holder.

Bounties should not be restricted down to on a handful or singular bounty hunter, for the simple fact that targeting like this will in most cases take forever or never result in a kill. Making it broad so that anyone may kill this person for the reward gives incentive for people who do and do not know the target. Making a lucrative offer for the targets "friendly" to turn on him for a steep price is a real advantage.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#50 - 2012-05-21 20:50:54 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
I trust John Crichton Jr. He's a stand up fellow.


Unlike me, I'm a sit down guy.


lol good job, now noone will (unless theyre stupid like those with those mining contracts you guys have been selling rofl)

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#51 - 2012-05-21 21:25:19 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
I trust John Crichton Jr. He's a stand up fellow.


Unlike me, I'm a sit down guy.


lol good job, now noone will (unless theyre stupid like those with those mining contracts you guys have been selling rofl)


Goonswarm Federation != SniggWaffe; l34rn 2 h15t0ry

And I thought the point of that post was painfully obvious, so you didn't really need to ruin the joke by explaining it.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-05-21 22:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Am I reading this right? Are the ISK amounts being pooled into a total?
Why aren't they being sequestered for specific contracts?

Why am I put in mind of a "Trust me" operation where scads of ISK are sent in, then one day someone says, "Ooops! Just kidding. Thanks for the free dough!" The AGE of the OP's toon might lend a hint here.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-05-21 22:56:02 UTC
My last Disney gig was explaining to the public why when Goofy was goosing little boys, it wasn't company policy.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#54 - 2012-05-21 22:57:23 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Am I reading this right? Are the ISK amounts being pooled into a total? Why aren't they being sequestered for specific contracts?

Why am I put in mind of a "Trust me" operation where scads of ISK are sent in, then one day someone says, "Ooops! Just kidding. Thanks for the free dough!" The AGE of the OP's toon might lend a hint here.


Please use an example with Person A,B and C as to how that would work. Then after you do that, look back at your example and tell me how likely the contract is to be filled, make it exploit proof, then make it attractive for people to want to complete your contract.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-05-21 22:59:03 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:
freebree wrote:
oh yea, might want to fix this one as well.

Biced with a Bounty Pool at 11,771,961 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK

Looks very awkward when you pay 116,456,078 ISK out of your own wallet.



??? What this means is the bounty pool is 11,771,961 mil and paid was a number that was subtracted from the bounty pool.

If it said

Quote:
Biced with a Bounty Pool at 140,000,000 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK


That wouldn't make much since would it?

I am flattered that you want to help but judging by the approach you came with about an hour or so ago, im not sure that you're the person I want to take advice from. You really do want there to be some trick to this.


While I understand what the numbers mean, it does look kind of weird. May I suggest putting up a "Total Bounty" and "Remaining Bounty pool".

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#56 - 2012-05-21 22:59:06 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
My last Disney gig was explaining to the public why when Goofy was goosing little boys, it wasn't company policy.



Sounds like you got the short straw when deciding who was going to get mauled by the public for something someone did wrong within the company.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#57 - 2012-05-21 23:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
Rath Kelbore wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
freebree wrote:
oh yea, might want to fix this one as well.

Biced with a Bounty Pool at 11,771,961 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK

Looks very awkward when you pay 116,456,078 ISK out of your own wallet.



??? What this means is the bounty pool is 11,771,961 mil and paid was a number that was subtracted from the bounty pool.

If it said

Quote:
Biced with a Bounty Pool at 140,000,000 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK


That wouldn't make much since would it?

I am flattered that you want to help but judging by the approach you came with about an hour or so ago, im not sure that you're the person I want to take advice from. You really do want there to be some trick to this.


While I understand what the numbers mean, it does look kind of weird. May I suggest putting up a "Total Bounty" and "Remaining Bounty pool".



Noted. This is a good request. Ill change that in a minute or two.

UPDATE: Change implemented.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#58 - 2012-05-22 02:33:57 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Am I reading this right? Are the ISK amounts being pooled into a total?
Why aren't they being sequestered for specific contracts?

Why am I put in mind of a "Trust me" operation where scads of ISK are sent in, then one day someone says, "Ooops! Just kidding. Thanks for the free dough!" The AGE of the OP's toon might lend a hint here.


The whole thing is dumping into the OP's wallet, with no 3rd party, and no verification as of yet from someone who's received an ISK payout. And you're worried whether his accounting methods will stand up to scrutiny?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#59 - 2012-05-22 03:37:47 UTC
I wish you luck with your service John. Seems like a good idea (in that it could replace and be better than the current bounty system).
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#60 - 2012-05-22 06:15:04 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
Am I reading this right? Are the ISK amounts being pooled into a total?
Why aren't they being sequestered for specific contracts?

Why am I put in mind of a "Trust me" operation where scads of ISK are sent in, then one day someone says, "Ooops! Just kidding. Thanks for the free dough!" The AGE of the OP's toon might lend a hint here.


The whole thing is dumping into the OP's wallet, with no 3rd party, and no verification as of yet from someone who's received an ISK payout. And you're worried whether his accounting methods will stand up to scrutiny?


Firstly, its the corp wallet but that can easily be rebutted by the fact that I currently control the corporate wallet until I can get a response back from a trusted 3rd party. So in a way you are correct except you make it sound bad.

Secondly, if I ran around telling everyone that has received a payout from EHL to make a post on this thread you could easily twist that into some sort of setup or fraudulent validation method.

Honestly I already know someone will call BS on any proof, or validation I receive. So to make this clear, I don't care if you do or do not believe this is a scam. If you do not want to use the system then don't, but if you are going to make assumptions then please back them up.

If you want to know if a player has received a payout then by all means ask them, after all, their names are posted on the EHL website.