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Do Sansha ships need a buff?
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Verity Sovereign

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 739

#1 - 2011-10-03 06:01:02 UTC

So, i've been comparing the Sansha ships to other pirate faction BS's, in particular Angel Cartel and Serpentis.
The Sansha ships seem inferior.

Consider the nightmare vs the mach:

Very similar damage to the mach
No damage type selection for the nightmare (bad for PvE)
The mach has much better range/damage projection
Very similar tank (base shield Hp both in the 9,000's, mach has a higher passive regen and smaller sig radius)
The nightmare is much slower and has a much larger sig radius
The nightmare has a 25% smaller drone bacy
The Nightmare has only marginally better tracking when the higher base tracking of autocannons is considered.
The nightmare's cap can barely take firing the guns

The Phantasm and Succubus stack up along similar lines - they just aren't that good compared to other pirate faction ships.

The nightmare is no good for PvP given its poor cap, speed, and cost
Its not much good for PvE given its lack of damage selection

The only thing it seems good for is running incursions, where it is merely the equal of a mach.

I'm thinking Sansha ships need an improved capacitor, or higher speed and lower sig, or expanded drone bay, or extra mid/low slot (Give the nightmare the mid+ low slot layout of a rattler?.

Because at the moment... I don't really see a point to flying the Nightmare anymore.
The mach can do everything the nightmare can do, and so much more.

Viziam 6
Allzat Viziam Likes received: 6	#2 - 2011-10-03 06:24:00 UTC 3 Do you even fly a Nightmare? Seems as you have no clue what you are talking about. I eat everything in my path when I fly Sansha ships no matter what faction I am up against. Leave them as they are thank you. -Allzat-

Sunshine and Lollipops 27,526
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#3 - 2011-10-03 07:19:04 UTC 3 The Nightmare is only one of the best PvE ships in the game (and if you can afford it, it's no slouch in PvP either)… …but yes, the other Sansha ships could use something — both the spikey lollipop and the little grub are lagging somwhat behind the other frigates and cruisers.

Rogue Pioneers 5
Master Ventris Rogue Pioneers Likes received: 5	#4 - 2011-10-03 07:31:05 UTC Is this just looking at eft? I think there is a huge difference in doing 1000+ dps all the way to 45km than only doing it up to 4km. Falloff isnt free optimal.

Theodoric Darkwind

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 320

#5 - 2011-10-03 07:41:36 UTC

Master Ventris wrote:

Is this just looking at eft? I think there is a huge difference in doing 1000+ dps all the way to 45km than only doing it up to 4km. Falloff isnt free optimal.

the tradeoff is the mach is easier to fly, cheaper to fit and has a better tank.

The tachyon NM melts face, but holy cap micromanagement, not to mention actually NEEDING T2 rigs just to function and a cap injector just to run the guns.

288
Aamrr Likes received: 288	#6 - 2011-10-03 07:53:24 UTC It'd probably be more accurate to say it needs T2 rigs to run the guns, and a cap injector to run its tank, but sure.

Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3
Brutorr Republic Military School Minmatar Republic Likes received: 3	#7 - 2011-10-03 09:05:44 UTC As above, Nightmare is awesome and prob my favourite ship ingame. The other two, however, are lacking somewhat. The Phantasm shouldn't have been nerfed when they boosted the other faction cruisers, and the Succubus has always lacked a bit.

Monks of War 1,098
Fon Revedhort Monks of War Likes received: 1,098	#8 - 2011-10-03 09:15:57 UTC Yeap, Nightmare clearly lacks speed and agility to be a really competative PvP ship. Well, you can hug gates, but why would you need your megapulses then? Use blasters instead. Won't comment on the rest, though. "Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

251
Lugalzagezi666 Likes received: 251	#9 - 2011-10-03 09:26:36 UTC Succubus and phantasm need buff for sure. Nightmare, hm... Yes, its one of the best pve ships in game, but so is machariel and its awesome pvp ship too. So mach got its speed and ac/arty ownage, vindi got its dps and 90% webs, bhaal got long range webs and uberneuts. Ask yourself about nighmare.

Advanced Technology 7
Koniss Advanced Technology Likes received: 7	#10 - 2011-10-03 09:32:08 UTC nightmare is fine for both PVE and PVP, sure you cant roam in it like a mach but its a nice ship phantasm need its old shield HP back (i still dont understand why CCP nerfed it while they boosted all other faction cruisers) and another low wouldnt hurt either. succubus isnt totally bad but some love to the ship would be appreciated a bit more fitting maybe

Dors Venabily

United Starbase Systems

Likes received: 20

#11 - 2011-10-03 10:01:37 UTC

Theodoric Darkwind wrote:

Master Ventris wrote:

Is this just looking at eft? I think there is a huge difference in doing 1000+ dps all the way to 45km than only doing it up to 4km. Falloff isnt free optimal.

I do not get where you have that from the Fit I am using is 40 minutes with everything on but the booster. When boosting you need to inject.

there is one t2 rig on that.

and yeah Fall off is not optimal.

With the other 2 ships it could revert the shield changes.

Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 362
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork Likes received: 362	#12 - 2011-10-03 12:08:46 UTC Nightmare is fine. Not that I'd complain if it got boosted xD Phantasm is in dire need of some sort of boost. It just isn't good at anything at the moment. It has less slots than all the other pirate faction cruisers (iirc, certainly has less than the Cynabal) aswell as being very slow. Would be nice to actually have a use for it as it's such a nice looking ship!

Verity Sovereign

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 739

#13 - 2011-10-03 14:37:19 UTC

Allzat wrote:

Do you even fly a Nightmare? Seems as you have no clue what you are talking about. I eat everything in my path when I fly Sansha ships no matter what faction I am up against. Leave them as they are thank you.

-Allzat-

Yes, I have no problem completing lvl4 missions in it...
But I also have no problems completing lvl4 missions in an Apocalypse or Armageddon.
Sure, the Nightmare does them faster.

It seems to me that for what it is, a billion ISK pirate faction BS, that its capabilities are underwhelming when I look at what the other pirate faction BS's can do.

Allzat

Viziam

Likes received: 6

#14 - 2011-10-04 05:19:00 UTC

Verity Sovereign wrote:

Allzat wrote:

Then you are doing something terribly wrong or you don't have the skills to fly it at lvl 5 yet.

-Allzat-


Aamrr Likes received: 288	#15 - 2011-10-04 05:45:41 UTC When I'm looking at pirate batteships to boost, the Nightmare isn't exactly the one that comes to mind... Rattlesnake, anyone? Seriously, why does anyone fly that crap?

Zoe Alarhun

The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation

Likes received: 106

#16 - 2011-10-04 06:15:17 UTC

Aamrr wrote:

When I'm looking at pirate batteships to boost, the Nightmare isn't exactly the one that comes to mind...

Rattlesnake, anyone? Seriously, why does anyone fly that crap?

Because it's got a rediculously awesome passive tank and you can do 5's in it.
It looks cool.
It's missiles + drones + shields.
It's got a rediculously awesome passive tank (this bears repeating)

Damage isn't great.

Aamrr

Likes received: 288

#17 - 2011-10-04 06:20:09 UTC | Edited by: Aamrr

You can do level 5's with an alt in a logistics ship too -- and it'll be both faster and cheaper.
I think the Rattlesnake is among the ugliest of the pirate ships available.
So is the CNR -- just a different ratio.
Passive tanking is overrated. In anything resembling an efficient gank platform, you'll get a stronger tank with active modules.

And yes, the damage output is miserable.


Zoe Alarhun The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation Likes received: 106	#18 - 2011-10-04 10:38:02 UTC Yes you can do all those things mentioned but bear in mind you need alts, can't run sustained tank (cap boosters), and the other points are opinion. The CNR is a better mission runner for 4's etc - but sometimes you need that slow bulldoze rediculous over the top passive regen tank and the rattler shines there. Running 4's CNR is better by far.

Lugalzagezi666

Likes received: 251

#19 - 2011-10-04 11:10:30 UTC

Guristas ships need a buff too. Especially worm, that is basically worse than ishkur. Easiest way would be to drop useless missile range bonus and give all guristas ships damage/rof bonus. Worm could also use drone damage/hp bonus or just better pg/cpu.

But that doesnt change anything about fact, that phantasm is pure joke, succubus is subpar to most afs and pirate frigs and nightmare really doesnt offer much for pvp compared to mach, bhaal or vindi.

Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1,863
Skippermonkey Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State Likes received: 1,863	#20 - 2011-10-04 11:54:07 UTC people here complaining the the Nightmare doesnt have a 'stand out attribute' that differs it from a normal Battleship, what would you change or add to the ship to make it 'better'? COME AT ME BRO I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION