Missions & Complexes

I like it... I really do, but not really on topic :P

now you should yell at one of the nullbears/WHbears/incubears/other random trolls

The +6 implants would in all serious be a nice addition to the Concord LP store, since it is kinda limited in there. Would be something else to spend my LP on.

I agree it's coming at it from a different direction, but I think it is actually on topic somewhat. One concern people had about pre-nerf incursions was how much of the rewards were a direct isk injection. One solution to that is to give more non-isk rewards like LP. The challenge with simply increasing the amount of LP awarded is you'll devalue that same LP because of increased supply. If instead the LP store has lots of really cool stuff people really want, that LP will be more valuable. Imagine if they added civilian issue Concord ships (i.e. look like concord ships but reasonable t1 hull stats) to the LP store.

I don't even know how to respond to this one,, null sec isn't everything. However, CCP are the designers and owners of this videogame, decided that it would be run on the risk versus reward model. Null-sec being a theoretical riskiest place, means by CCP's own design everything should be more profitable in null sec. Otherwise it's broken. CCP has said this on numerous occasions.

As far as the moon goo is concerned that pays for our inter-structure, our and our alliance run programs.

I fail to see the point you're trying to make with this post? please clarify? it just seems to make my point even clearer?

The null sec mechanics are broken because you can make the same amount in hi-sec, incursions as you do in null sec Ratting .

However the null sec incursions/low sec. Do not pay out enough to justify the logistics headaches.

By all means I'm not saying that high sec incursions shouldn't pay out more than a level 4, because I think they should and I don't think high sec been nerfed because you guys already have a terrible enough. However the gap needs to be widened between between the two to justify the extra hassle.

my opinion on incursions, is quite clear from my original post : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1246349#post1246349 & and here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1262117#post1262117 (bottom section) Copy here for lazy people"



Although I did change my mind about them being removed from high sec. They do bring people together to enjoy the game. And that should be experienced by all.

Back on #148,

Bull ****! Not a single thing in EVE is balanced around rich players abusing the system! It's a sandbox. The rich constantly abuse the system, and it only gets worse as the sec status gets lower. There will always be certain players that abuse the system and profit from it far more than the other 99%.

"They funnel ISK into the economy" – True, but far less than other game elements. "they fail to increase the velocity of money" – False, Incursion pilots funnel billions of ISK back into the system. "they fail to create sufficient demand for new ships" – False, False, False, as incursion pilots have an average of three dedicated incursion ships, and the richest incursion pilots buy the most expensive ships you can fly in high sec. "quite simply are the primary cause of mudflation" – False, as I have kicked out two of the three legs of your argument.

none of those are risk.

I ran VG, I know there's no where in the universe you can die even if the logis got jammed.

noone will suicide gank you if you don't stupidly fit 5b mods on your ship.

EDIT: why do I still bother explain it to these selfish scrubs

2nd EDIT: isnt plex going down???

Yes, I've read Tippia's post quite a few times. Like Simi, Tippia is hiding facts that don't support her argument.

Mining is a faucet. In exchange for time, an item is created that has value. The ore created did not exist before it was mined. MOVING the ore or refined mineral is a pump. Planetary Interaction is a faucet. Researching Datacores is a faucet. Salvage is a faucet, as well as Module Drops. Drone Alloys were a faucet that have now been plugged. Both Module Drops and Drone Alloys were correctly identified as faucets by CCP, and cut off in Escalation.

Industrial waste is a sink. Refining waste, reprocessing tax, manufacturing waste (blueprint efficiency), manufacturing costs - all are sinks. Ammunition and charges (even mining crystals) are sinks.

Miners love Escalation because the ore faucet is once again the primary source of minerals. To give a little credit to Tippia, CCP didn't release stats for the above faucets and sinks. They may or may not be tracked. Rinn gets it, but he dances around the subject. "Use faction and T2 missiles, and count your salvos — i.e.: stop firing when there are enough missiles in flight to kill the target" - Rinn identifies ammo as a sink. I'm sure Tippia gets it too; she'd just rather not tell.

Simi's argument "fail to increase the velocity of money" refers to the richest Incursion pilots hoarding earnings. I agree, that was a problem that was fixed with the Escalation change of killing OTA blitzing. I support this change to the rate of site completion, but I'm arguing two counterpoints. 1, Incursions don't deserve to die for the actions of a small segment of players, and 2, reversing the payout nerf should be enough to bring participation in Incursions back to a reasonable level.

I understand the argument. That's why you didn't bother to refute my points.

Spending a few billion on a pirate faction battleship does not make you a rich player, nor does it make you some elevated "1%". Due to the fact that incursion wealth is simply accumulated over time the number of players flying those ships steadily increases.


How? Incursion pilots occasionally buy new ships, but they do not lose enough for it to really be of any consequence. As for comparing it to "other game elements", it's a bit less than wormholes and around a third of bounties.

However the income from bounties spans the entire of null sec, low sec and high sec missions, belt rats, exploration rats and anomalies. Not to mention the fact that the amount of ISK sunk into Sov upgrades, alliance taxes and recirculated through the economy via ship destruction in null sec alone dwarves anything from incursions.


No, you've failed to understand my arguments.

I mean, seriously, "incursion pilots have an average of three dedicated incursion ships"? Where did you grab that number from? And do you even understand what demand means in this sense? A null sec player who loses three ships a month is one who probably doesn't log on very often, an incursion player who loses three ships a month is an absolute idiot.


Then why do ship destruction statistics for high sec incursion systems not differ from the surrounding systems?

Oh dude I have... I lost a full HG slave clone with all 6% implants. Also a paladin, a legion and 2 Bhaalgorns.

All bought and paid for with Incursions

Which is a lot, but then think about the Cartel in null sec, that have dictated to everyone how much they will sell their Moon harvest materials... or "We'll take your moon from you" I'm sorry but Cartels fixing the Tech moon prices I think is a much more abusive form of market manipulation than someone joining incursions.

Also I was waiting for someone to make a 99% vs 1% argument here... and oh my god the Incursion community is not the 1% The difference being is that "1%" is more of an exclusive thing. Like the trillions in isk that Null sec alliances bring in from Moon products and DED plex's... To which no one other than a select few may participate in without feeling the Wrath of the 1%

The Incursion communities are in the most part open and public and free for anyone to participate in. We have 2 main channels, one for Shield and another for Armor This is only for tanking preferences because it made sense to have the 2 channels to operate independently and even competing against each other for the rights and glory of the mom kills. I see, if anything Incursion runners are the middle class of eve, able to fund their PVP habits and invest in BPO's and other production ventures with the isk earned in incursions. But they are a far cry from those elite leaders of Alliances of null sec in New Eden.

But isn't Hulkageddon a wonderful thing... This drive to use T1 ships to suicide gank a bunch of expensive mining ships. I thought it very interesting that Covetors and Retrievers were removed from the list of ships rewarded for it. Then I realised that not much Technetium is used to produce these. And that the Goons fund Hulkageddon now because for every Hulk destroyed they sell more Technetium and profit even better. The thing is, once a Hulk is bought how often does it need re-bought? It isn't not unless you have a drive every year to remove as many from hi-sec as you can. So that all those hulks dying need replaced. Filling the Null-sec pockets even more... This is a perfect example of the 1% (moon owners in null sec) literally taking money from the 99% (hi-sec miners)

Well i flew a 2 Bill Vindi, I had two Gank attempt's, Which failed, Maybe they just don't like my Troll's, But doesn't that mean i win..

Do i get a prize?