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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#321 - 2012-05-07 20:49:10 UTC
Manssell wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Ines Fy wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
newer version of the war cost formula is now on Sisi - go play!


can you give us some hints on how the formula is calculated?


There will be a dev blog out soon™



Hi,

It would be nice if perhaps you could give us some idea of the basic principles you are using for the re-design in the Dev blog.

Such as, what is the basic reasoning behind increasing war dec cost with the size of the target? Since this fundamentally gives an incentive for corps to Dec smaller entities is this the basic principle behind the design or just a side effect?

For instance do you really think that Larger alliances should be given favoritism over smaller ones when designing game mechanics because there are "more" people in them? (which this War Dec formula does). Is it your opinion that designing "favoritism" into a game mechanic is even the correct way to go (as it is the mechanic now is "fair" in how it treats different size groups, larger ones still have the advantage of wealth and size of numbers but the mechanic is at least fair, where as this new one favors a larger entity over a small one)?

Is it your opinion that game mechanics should be used to force people in small corps/alliances into larger ones? Which this new formula has the finical incentive to do. What is your general outlook towards small corps and alliances? Should small corp gameplay be protected, treated the same as everyone else (I favor this), or actively discouraged (which the proposed war dec fees would do)?

If the new cost are designed to discourage "griefing" wars, does this not give incentive to grief the small over the large (if it was even designed for that at all)?

Also does this not encourage Alt padding?

And finally is it your opinion that a war between a 1000 man corp against a 20 man corp should cost the 1000 man corp less to start than the if the 20 man corp started it… for the same war? And If so, do you consider or see that favoritism in any way?

And I am not talking about in the game advantages larger corp have during the actual war here (that is not relevant nor should ever be changed as far as I'm concerned), I am specifically only asking these questions in regards to the cost formula of a War Dec.


Also would be nice to know what is the expected cost of not playing EVE at all after being griefed for 50 measly millions a week without a chance to escape the griefing. And what would be the cost of leaving your corp as it's been wardecced by alt corps for a month.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#322 - 2012-05-07 20:53:43 UTC
Azura Solus wrote:
I know it was stated that the details of how the war dec changes work on sisi will be posted . My question is could you give a heads up as to when this will be posted. Or have i missed it somewhere.


There will most likely be a dev blog on next Thursday.

Quick note, while a lot of the war mechanics are on Sisi already, there are a few important ones that are not there yet. So the complete system is not out yet. Should be all in over the next few days, hopefully.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#323 - 2012-05-07 20:55:59 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:


Edit: Any chance you can squeeze in a new build before you close up shop for the night?


I´m at home, so not much I can do from here, unfortunately Smile
Helen O'Malley
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2012-05-07 21:59:28 UTC
@SoniClover

some news about Extrinsic modules stat? u said u are working to put these modules on the same level of heatsink, gyros, magstab... when we may begin to test something?

thanks in advance for your reply and for your kindness!
Azura Solus
Rules of Acquisition
#325 - 2012-05-07 22:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Azura Solus
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Azura Solus wrote:
I know it was stated that the details of how the war dec changes work on sisi will be posted . My question is could you give a heads up as to when this will be posted. Or have i missed it somewhere.


There will most likely be a dev blog on next Thursday.

Quick note, while a lot of the war mechanics are on Sisi already, there are a few important ones that are not there yet. So the complete system is not out yet. Should be all in over the next few days, hopefully.



Thanks for the response look forward to checking it all out.

Edit: Also as has been put in the drone damage mod thread My 2 cents on it is increas the damage % and make it a high slot so that is will actually be a viable options for drone boats to use Since they very rarely use actual turrets.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#326 - 2012-05-07 22:56:29 UTC
Regarding the drone damage module, I´ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we´re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let´s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#327 - 2012-05-07 23:14:11 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the drone damage module, I´ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we´re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let´s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.


<3

You are a good dev
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#328 - 2012-05-08 00:10:13 UTC
Continuing to look at it and seeing what else needs to be done is all I ask. I can understand and respect the "cautious changes over time" methodology.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#329 - 2012-05-08 00:22:58 UTC
tbh I think the new ASB could use a little tweaking. I'd make it so the thing cannot run on capacitor at all, but on the other hand have it boost double or even triple the amount.

Absolutely insane tank for the 20sec or so you can run the booster, then crippling reload.

My reasoning on this is that this damn booster is atm useless for active tanking, and it's only a minor benefit to buffer tanks as the boost amount is so low you'll only recover a small portion of your HP. Typical buffer is better helped by either another LSE, another invuln, or an EM hardener.

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#330 - 2012-05-08 02:11:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Manssell wrote:


And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?


Turn it around: Why should it cost more to dec two 50 pilot corps over one 100 pilot corp?


Your paying for two wars not one. CCP doesn't charge different amounts for anything else based on size (that I know of). Corp offices cost the same for a 10 man corp as does a 100 man corp even though more people are using them. Same with SOV, a small alliance pays the same as a large one even though more pilots are using the system. Why should wars be different?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#331 - 2012-05-08 03:48:10 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the drone damage module, I´ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we´re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let´s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.



how about you let me use nano repair paste while my drones are docked in my bay so i can repair them?

make it take like 30 seconds to repair each drone... you can repair as many as you have nano paste...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#332 - 2012-05-08 05:07:59 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the drone damage module, I´ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we´re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let´s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.



Yep, baby steps. Provided it is on par with the Heat Sink, BCU, Gyro, and Mag stab at ~22%, drones should be a viable damage source.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2012-05-08 10:29:27 UTC
I think the new modules are absolutely crap but the war dec changes are cool.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Helen O'Malley
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#334 - 2012-05-08 12:27:57 UTC
LaserzPewPew wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the drone damage module, I´ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we´re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let´s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.



Yep, baby steps. Provided it is on par with the Heat Sink, BCU, Gyro, and Mag stab at ~22%, drones should be a viable damage source.


This!
very important for those ships that may want to sacrifice tank or other modules for something useful... i think for example to a curse that atm gain more DPS adding ballistic control than EDA (and we are speaking about a ship with bonuses on drones!).

I may fit a curse for solo pvp (normal fit with 2 HML) and gain more DPS with 2-3 ballistic (sacrificing nano or cap) than putting 2-3 extrinsic. this is a little meh atm....

But im sure SoniClover will resolve the problem :)
i hope these steps will be short steps and not years :)))
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2012-05-08 13:47:01 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Drones need a bit of love, but we´re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let´s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.


LMAO. The throw it at the wall and see what sticks method of game design. Have fun redesigning these mods in a couple years time after realizing they are inferior when compared to the alternatives.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#336 - 2012-05-08 13:59:36 UTC
@ Devs:

When you change stats of a module, can you just edit the numbers on given stats, or does it take more to do it? I have no experience in programming, so this might be a stupid question to you.

Ugh
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#337 - 2012-05-08 14:14:34 UTC
Tenga Halaris wrote:
@ Devs:

When you change stats of a module, can you just edit the numbers on given stats, or does it take more to do it? I have no experience in programming, so this might be a stupid question to you.

Ugh


I can't tell you precisely how it's done but the procedure involves a magnet, goldfish, jumping on one leg and single hair from CCP Hellmar's head

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#338 - 2012-05-08 14:28:28 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tenga Halaris wrote:
@ Devs:

When you change stats of a module, can you just edit the numbers on given stats, or does it take more to do it? I have no experience in programming, so this might be a stupid question to you.

Ugh
I can't tell you precisely how it's done but the procedure involves a magnet, goldfish, jumping on one leg and single hair from CCP Hellmar's head
Punkturis is trolling (in case anyone was wondering...).

Once the game designer knows what value to change, why and to what number then it's a simple edit on the Content Authoring Server (BTW, it's called Adam). The data is then ported for deployment along with other code and data changes tagged to a particular release and deployed to TQ in the form of code and database updates.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
T1nyMan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2012-05-08 14:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: T1nyMan
Does Adam ever get out for a walk? Perhaps a wine and dine. I mean seriously... What if anything is in it for Adam? Does anyone even care? Just sayin is all...

I mean we all get tangled up in our work at times and sometimes it takes the quiet guy to ask the hard questions.. Think about it, THINK ABOUT ADAM! Get back to me.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#340 - 2012-05-08 14:46:05 UTC
T1nyMan wrote:
Does Adam ever get out for a walk? Perhaps a wine and dine. I mean seriously... What if anything is in it for Adam? Does anyone even care? Just sayin is all...


I think it's mixed feelings.. for example the game designers are really really fond of him and try to be nice to him all the time and get really defensive when the programmers (who don't care that much about him) try to ruin him

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥