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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

First post First post
Author
Severian Carnifex
#301 - 2012-05-07 17:25:31 UTC
Manssell wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
gfldex wrote:
For those who don't want to logon Sisi to see a single number:

Quote:
The initial payment for starting this war will be 542,207,944 ISK.


Context man! Context!



Against goons.



Can't get on sisi (thanks for more awesome Mac support CCP) but for comparison, how much to Dec a 20 man corp?


very very little above 50 mill.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#302 - 2012-05-07 17:25:34 UTC
Ines Fy wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
newer version of the war cost formula is now on Sisi - go play!


can you give us some hints on how the formula is calculated?


There will be a dev blog out soon™

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#303 - 2012-05-07 17:36:22 UTC
Manssell wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
gfldex wrote:
For those who don't want to logon Sisi to see a single number:


Context man! Context!



Against goons.



Can't get on sisi (thanks for more awesome Mac support CCP) but for comparison, how much to Dec a 20 man corp?


very very little above 50 mill.


Thanks.

So the Dec shield of numbers still is there.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2012-05-07 17:38:05 UTC
Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#305 - 2012-05-07 17:43:02 UTC
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield.


Well it does make it cheaper to Dec smaller guys for giggles over them though.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#306 - 2012-05-07 17:53:35 UTC
Manssell wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield.


Well it does make it cheaper to Dec smaller guys for giggles over them though.


And ?
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#307 - 2012-05-07 18:01:36 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Ines Fy wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
newer version of the war cost formula is now on Sisi - go play!


can you give us some hints on how the formula is calculated?


There will be a dev blog out soon™



Hi,

It would be nice if perhaps you could give us some idea of the basic principles you are using for the re-design in the Dev blog.

Such as, what is the basic reasoning behind increasing war dec cost with the size of the target? Since this fundamentally gives an incentive for corps to Dec smaller entities is this the basic principle behind the design or just a side effect?

For instance do you really think that Larger alliances should be given favoritism over smaller ones when designing game mechanics because there are "more" people in them? (which this War Dec formula does). Is it your opinion that designing "favoritism" into a game mechanic is even the correct way to go (as it is the mechanic now is "fair" in how it treats different size groups, larger ones still have the advantage of wealth and size of numbers but the mechanic is at least fair, where as this new one favors a larger entity over a small one)?

Is it your opinion that game mechanics should be used to force people in small corps/alliances into larger ones? Which this new formula has the finical incentive to do. What is your general outlook towards small corps and alliances? Should small corp gameplay be protected, treated the same as everyone else (I favor this), or actively discouraged (which the proposed war dec fees would do)?

If the new cost are designed to discourage "griefing" wars, does this not give incentive to grief the small over the large (if it was even designed for that at all)?

Also does this not encourage Alt padding?

And finally is it your opinion that a war between a 1000 man corp against a 20 man corp should cost the 1000 man corp less to start than the if the 20 man corp started it… for the same war? And If so, do you consider or see that favoritism in any way?

And I am not talking about in the game advantages larger corp have during the actual war here (that is not relevant nor should ever be changed as far as I'm concerned), I am specifically only asking these questions in regards to the cost formula of a War Dec.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#308 - 2012-05-07 18:02:44 UTC
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Manssell wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield.


Well it does make it cheaper to Dec smaller guys for giggles over them though.


And ?



And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
Helothane
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#309 - 2012-05-07 18:18:10 UTC
Manssell wrote:


And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?


It isn't protection, per se, it is paying more for having more targets of opportunity. If you wardec a 20 man corp, you are going to have far fewer targets on a daily basis than a wardec on a 1000 man corp. The 1000 man corp represents a greater chance to kill a war target, with commenserate increase in chance of loot from those kills. You want a fatter target, you have to pay for it.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#310 - 2012-05-07 18:27:27 UTC
Helothane wrote:
Manssell wrote:


And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?


It isn't protection, per se, it is paying more for having more targets of opportunity. If you wardec a 20 man corp, you are going to have far fewer targets on a daily basis than a wardec on a 1000 man corp. The 1000 man corp represents a greater chance to kill a war target, with commenserate increase in chance of loot from those kills. You want a fatter target, you have to pay for it.



As I keep saying, this isn't duck hunt. These "targets" can shoot back. A smaller entity declaring war on a larger one is many times taking a huge risk of being stomped by the bigger guy. And if the bigger guy doesn't care to and just wants to fly around not shooting back being the victim... that's their own fault, but that shouldn't be considered the default situation.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#311 - 2012-05-07 19:00:56 UTC
Manssell wrote:


And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?



Fine fine, I don't consider 500 odd mil to be worth mentioning but if it seems like protection to you whatever I guess.

Sure why not set the wardec fee to 500 mil per week for any size corp, it's not like anyone would struggle to raise it so you could still wardec a ton of small corps or a ton of large corps without there being an issue.

Problem solved no special treatment for 'big' corps.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#312 - 2012-05-07 19:34:21 UTC
Manssell wrote:
Helothane wrote:
Manssell wrote:


And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?


It isn't protection, per se, it is paying more for having more targets of opportunity. If you wardec a 20 man corp, you are going to have far fewer targets on a daily basis than a wardec on a 1000 man corp. The 1000 man corp represents a greater chance to kill a war target, with commenserate increase in chance of loot from those kills. You want a fatter target, you have to pay for it.



As I keep saying, this isn't duck hunt. These "targets" can shoot back. A smaller entity declaring war on a larger one is many times taking a huge risk of being stomped by the bigger guy. And if the bigger guy doesn't care to and just wants to fly around not shooting back being the victim... that's their own fault, but that shouldn't be considered the default situation.



the idea behind the more people more isk facet of the war dec is the fact you're bribing concord/navy police etc... to not interfere when engaging this person of this alliance, as well as that person of the same alliance and so on.....
drdxie
#313 - 2012-05-07 19:44:48 UTC
So I went on to sisi and tried out some of the new stuff, well tried to anyway. I like the new inventory system, took me some time to figure out that I could open different containers/drone bay in a separate screen. I was not able to find any of the new shield or drone modules in aphend area, even went to amarr. I could find them in the search, but they were not for sale anywhere. I have a toon in guristas NULL, and also couldn't find them there, so maybe I missed something.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Ohh Yeah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2012-05-07 20:06:34 UTC
CCP SoniClover said that the adjustments he made to the Ancillary Shield Boosters would be on SiSi today, but alas they do not appear to be.

Any word on this?
Bruce Vendetta
Final-Vendetta
#315 - 2012-05-07 20:07:52 UTC
Why did you remove the linking of kill reports in chat channels?
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#316 - 2012-05-07 20:11:28 UTC
Bruce Vendetta wrote:
Why did you remove the linking of kill reports in chat channels?


sad news:( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1243975#post1243975

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#317 - 2012-05-07 20:33:36 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:
CCP SoniClover said that the adjustments he made to the Ancillary Shield Boosters would be on SiSi today, but alas they do not appear to be.

Any word on this?


This was based on my understanding that a new Sisi build would automatically include it, but this seems to not be the case. I will look into this tomorrow if it´s still not in then.
Azura Solus
Rules of Acquisition
#318 - 2012-05-07 20:43:12 UTC
I know it was stated that the details of how the war dec changes work on sisi will be posted . My question is could you give a heads up as to when this will be posted. Or have i missed it somewhere.
Ohh Yeah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#319 - 2012-05-07 20:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohh Yeah
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Ohh Yeah wrote:
CCP SoniClover said that the adjustments he made to the Ancillary Shield Boosters would be on SiSi today, but alas they do not appear to be.

Any word on this?


This was based on my understanding that a new Sisi build would automatically include it, but this seems to not be the case. I will look into this tomorrow if it´s still not in then.


Thanks for the timely response.

I was worried that you'd second guessed yourself on that balancing call, or that someone had strong-armed you into removing those changes.

Edit: Any chance you can squeeze in a new build before you close up shop for the night?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#320 - 2012-05-07 20:48:53 UTC
Manssell wrote:


And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?


Turn it around: Why should it cost more to dec two 50 pilot corps over one 100 pilot corp?

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