These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Amarrian Slavetrader
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2012-05-07 05:17:31 UTC
Shalee Lianne wrote:
Because it looks like you're trolling. :)


Saying thus does not make it so.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#342 - 2012-05-07 05:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Silence iKillYouu
there will always be Amarr.
Your lil group is only lil.

Anyway we are pirates we will always have targets.
And stations to dock in P

We will sell u huola ?

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#343 - 2012-05-07 05:54:52 UTC
Station lockouts are a good thing. I will advocate for those, but there also has to be a complete reset of occupied territory and more FW based stations in all of the FW constellations. There also needs to be a mechanic in place to make these stations wanted and needed.

One idea I came up with while I thought about it was that enemy controlled stations should offer level 5 FW missions once you gain occupancy that are used for furthering your occupancy. If they made these missions much like Incursions I think it would be a great mechanic in the FW system. That would cause conflict and create the feel of a real warzone as both sides would have NPCs fighting along with the fleets you would need to complete the missions. Complete so many missions and a new line opens up for the next level of occupancy, until eventually you are fighting faction capitals/supers/titans to raise your constellation to the last level of occupancy.

So you would plex to get the system contested, flip the system to your control and then send the constellation into an incursion like state where you would run missions out of the flipped systems station for the rest of the constellation and raised levels in occupancy.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#344 - 2012-05-07 06:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Personally I'm looking forward to the changes.
Spent the weekend taking my ships to high sec from low in preparation.
I expect the people who plex will find that they are actually getting rewards now and stay in FW.
The people who are mission runners and never plex will leave militia - that's a good thing.

The only change I would like that isn't coming is the complete removal of NPC Navys.

I'm glad the militias will actually be like proper military forces with the ability to control and own a system.
Many are comparing the upcoming changes to Null Sov. This is nowhere near the boring structure grinding that Null sec is.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2012-05-07 06:06:24 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Amarrian Slavetrader wrote:
I'm confused as to why people think it'll make such a big difference. Years ago the public amarr fleets staged out of Tuomuta (in highsec). Nothing here will stop anyone from basing out of highsec and that's a worst case scenario....

By 'years ago' I take it you mean the first 6 months of the war or so because that was the extent of it. Considering that most of us were "scared" of the big bad low-sec when we joined the duration was surprisingly short. Being able to base out of high-sec is a great option especially for new-comers, but creating a system where it becomes the only option in case of a side being outblobbed for a shortish period of time ..

My Wishful Thinking for summer:
- Supers lose their immunity when away from null.
- Titans lose ability to bridge to a location not in null.
- Links are on-grid.
- Most if not all sec. gain is moved to low-sec.
- FW stations lockout enemy until enemy gains a foothold (ie. 10-15% VP) with services becoming available as system goes deeper and deeper into a contested state.
- Defensive plexing is removed or made so fast as to be non-existent (biggest damn waste of time and counter intuitive thing around!).
- NPC's are tweaked so that all sides have approximately same level of difficulty dealing with them.
- NPC's do not interfere when not 'needed' (probably stupidly hard to code without opening door to exploitation).
- Bunker grinds are replaced with live EHP akin to Incursion end 'boss'.
- Pirate hulls are classified as 'one size up' in regards to plex access.
- Missions get poison pills and elite frigs/cruisers included in target pool.
- POS are modular and with security less like a circus tent.

Off to work, toodles.


I dont agree with all of this (no defensive plexing? Why?) but the vast majority of these are long overdue.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#346 - 2012-05-07 06:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Please refrain from personal attacks and inappropriate language. Spitfire
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#347 - 2012-05-07 06:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Hrett wrote:

I dont agree with all of this (no defensive plexing? Why?)


Those that watched the Fan Fest presentation will recall that the idea is that your LP that is invested in the Infrastructure Hub is what is used to pay for the offensive plexing rewards. Thus, when attackers invade your space they are actually stealing your hard-earned LP, and causing your system upgrades to be slowly stripped away unless you do something about it.

So the reward for defensive plexing is supposed to be that you continue to enjoy your system upgrades. Oh yeah, and still be able to dock. That should be a pretty big motivator to chase off the enemy without needing to paid on top of that.

Some of this may not be very testable on the server if there arent enough of you taking space, upgrading it, fighting each other, gaining LP rewards, contesting systems, etc. It's extremely difficult to test an ongoing static war on SiSi, and thats exactly why there's so many assumptions, misinformation, and panic flying about the individual changes when not in the context of a living, breathing, conflict on Tranquility.


*Edit* - upon second read I understand now that Ms. Yoshida was referring to the wanting to deal with the actual time it takes to secure a defensive plex, not the lack of rewards players for the activity that players are reporting on SiSi. I kept my answer as it least clarifies the latter of the two.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#348 - 2012-05-07 06:19:58 UTC
I thought this would be a great time to pause, take a breath, and listen to the developers talk about the expansion in their own words.

Eve Online: the controversy, the economy and the coming Inferno

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Vine Naroo
Abraxas Rising
#349 - 2012-05-07 06:24:08 UTC
I'd like to see decreased penalties for killing non-FW neuts in a FW contested low sec system and the removal of militia chat. The use of neuts and troll spies, while it may be a 'fact' of warfare is not well reflected in the game logic. Let militia pilots establish their own system of trust in lieu of chat as we see in other play models in the game. A CCP sponsored militia chat is pvp welfare, let the griefers work for it like in other parts of the game. Shooting neuts w/little to no sec status hit should also be considered. Neut alts dont really capture the engaging spirit of fw imo or the sandbox intentionality of pvp.

Those two items ideas enhance proposed changes which are long overdue.
Jill Igan
Necessary Technologies
#350 - 2012-05-07 06:26:55 UTC
Meh.

I don't have a problem with neutral alts, I can deal with uninvolved parties reaping the fruits of my labors, lockouts don't worry me. Pies, powerblocks, caps and spies, FW folk have had to deal with since it's inception and have adapted, more or less. What worries me is that the game design of FW continues to be focused on plexing with no iteration on the plexing mechanics themselves, while the repercussions are being made far more severe.

Plexing is the only game mechanic which requires you to do pretty much nothing but wait provided the enemy don't want to/can't force you to stop....waiting. For 20 min. Even mining is more interactive ffs. There's a damn good reason why most of FW doesn't plex, it's boring as hell. More than that it is damn frustrating at times. The only thing gayer than a falcon decloaking and jamming to deny you a kill is a little red cross doing the same thing. ECM is too large a force multiplier to allow NPCs to wield in PVP. I stay the hell away from Caldari plexes for just this reason, I'd LIKE to fight in a semi-arena environment occasionally but I know the odds say I'll be jammed at some point in the fight which allows my target to escape. Add to this that NPC ewar mechanics are fuzzy at best and it quickly becomes an overwhelming deterrent that encourages Gallente to bring +1 to tank the jams. Then there are the obvious agro and standings bugs with the rats but I'll let Damar beat that horse as he's so fond of doing so.

The last time I plexed feverishly was for the nomination for AT6 team captain. I know that might irk some and cause them to think I haven't given plexing a fair try. However, the mechanics never changed, and I felt I had seen enough to not be bothered again. From what those I've talked to, most of the Gallente old guard feel the same way. Personally, I might get back into FW to see the new system (left last April) and might even try to flip a system 'for the Federation' but I'll continue to think that engaging an equal force with in a Caldari plex is an exercise in futility.

tl;dr And now, when FW finally gets looked at, the NPC imbalance isn't, nor are the plexing mechanics themselves getting looked at, despite becoming (apparently) a more integral part of the system. Does no one else see a problem with this?!

PS: Hanz, militia teams in the AT. Tell CCP to bring them back, you know you want to see it Big smile
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#351 - 2012-05-07 07:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Jill Igan wrote:

tl;dr And now, when FW finally gets looked at, the NPC imbalance isn't, nor are the plexing mechanics themselves getting looked at, despite becoming (apparently) a more integral part of the system. Does no one else see a problem with this?!


I do!! NPC balance has been a big part of the feedback I've given CCP. I think its important to remind everyone that Inferno will likely be rolled out in phases, much like every other expansion in the last couple of years, and on top of that there is a team of Dev's working on FW upgrades all the way into the next expansion. There's all kinds of things to work on, improve, add, and change, and lots of time to do it. If there's something you'd like to see in Faction Warfare that isn't in this very first round of Inferno, CCP might be working on it and just hasn't said so yet. Pirate

Jill Igan wrote:
PS: Hanz, militia teams in the AT. Tell CCP to bring them back, you know you want to see it Big smile


Militia teams in the AT are already here. Alliances are now enlisted in Faction Warfare, so there is absolutely nothing stopping any militia members from enlisting a team in the coming tournament. I hope to see you all there, give them hell and show the 0.0 dudes what the militias are really made of!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#352 - 2012-05-07 07:59:21 UTC
Could we please tek personal standing with an agent in acount.

I'm a single toon player, to young to have several characters trained to a level that would make a useful alt, I do run anomalies, missions and PI operations in several lowsec area's to pay for the PvP and to do something different every now and then.

I've build up standing with several agents in those stations. it would be nice to have those let you in to there stations.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#353 - 2012-05-07 08:01:09 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Personally I'm looking forward to the changes.
Spent the weekend taking my ships to high sec from low in preparation.
I expect the people who plex will find that they are actually getting rewards now and stay in FW.
The people who are mission runners and never plex will leave militia - that's a good

.


Well actually mission runners in FW usually only do them because they is no better way to make isk in low sec. I knowim keen to actually get something for Plexing and PVP. It will make a massive difference to the way I make iskies. It will be much more fun.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Cpt Cosmic
Perkone
Caldari State
#354 - 2012-05-07 08:09:41 UTC
the station lockout does not even make sense. why should a station full of soldiers belonging to a ceratin faction suddenly shoot their own dudes just because some alt with cheap ships did some boring plexing and shoot a bunker?

some services denied and other services very expensive, that would make sense, but station lockout? suddenly the crew of the whole station gets magically replaced cause someone did boring PvE activity?
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#355 - 2012-05-07 08:18:11 UTC
Cpt Cosmic wrote:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#356 - 2012-05-07 11:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
Mike Whiite wrote:
Could we please tek personal standing with an agent in acount.

I'm a single toon player, to young to have several characters trained to a level that would make a useful alt, I do run anomalies, missions and PI operations in several lowsec area's to pay for the PvP and to do something different every now and then.

I've build up standing with several agents in those stations. it would be nice to have those let you in to there stations.



I will impersonate ccp and csm and will answer u .... "our logs show we dont care about u, pay for subscription and stfu. I am ccp fw litlle prick and i will make u all nullbears, because i know what is best for you".

Honeslty i think it is time to show some middlefinger to ccp again .... Devbog is probably gonna be useless pile of empty words as it is usually.

Btw ccp did great job with crucible and they are going to masive fallback with inferno.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#357 - 2012-05-07 11:20:45 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Personally I'm looking forward to the changes.
Spent the weekend taking my ships to high sec from low in preparation.
I expect the people who plex will find that they are actually getting rewards now and stay in FW.
The people who are mission runners and never plex will leave militia - that's a good

.


Well actually mission runners in FW usually only do them because they is no better way to make isk in low sec. I knowim keen to actually get something for Plexing and PVP. It will make a massive difference to the way I make iskies. It will be much more fun.



It is funny how people think there are armies of mission runners. Reality is that there are only few now, because all isk farmers are now in Incursions business. CCP have u ever tried to check records of people who in reality run fw missions? Most of them went during first fw mission nerf reballance 1.5 year ago. Which comes to the guy who is responsible for fw in ccp ... Have u done ur homewrok? I am afraid no.
marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#358 - 2012-05-07 11:25:13 UTC
You seem mad snake, are you mad that we kicked you out of Rak forever?
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#359 - 2012-05-07 11:36:35 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:

Btw ccp did great job with crucible and they are going to masive fallback with inferno.


Couldn't disagree more. Just because there is one item (albeit a big item) that people don't agree on, the vast majority of the changes are things that everyone likes.

CCP are perfectly entitled to pursue their vision for their game - even though I personally don't like the station lock out, I can't argue that it will add some much needed spice to the arena. My one serious objection would be the combination of station lockout and reset - anything other than these two together I (and everyone else) can work around if they want to. Hell, even if both go through, I still will most likely stick with it, because FW is basically all I've known for the past few years. I can change with the times, and so can you.

Stop being a bunch of closed off and narrow viewed elitests and flex with the game.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#360 - 2012-05-07 11:40:23 UTC
Shalee Lianne wrote:
Amarrian Slavetrader, it would be much more productive to post your insight on your main character instead of a trolling alt.

Don't blame militia for being 'pirate'. Do we have some? Sure. But some of us wouldn't be negative if we didn't have to take sec standings and GCC for shooting neutral alts of the enemies.


Idea: Shoot neutral alts of the enemies with your own neutral alts?

I know, that's some real revolutionary thinking there. I can fully understand why you didn't have that thought on your own, I mean you did choose to be Amarr after all.