These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#241 - 2012-05-05 04:24:10 UTC
Oppon's Pull wrote:
I'm more concerned with the mad rush that the numerically superior / broader tz militias will be able to pull off - flip 7-8 important systems in the week leading up to the Inferno release with a 6 hour flip then laugh as their outnumbered opponents have to spend 40 hours to get them back. Of course this is assuming the global reset does not take place


Start recruiting! I almost never see spam in the recruitment channel or on the recruitment forums regarding main Amarr Militia Corps. I hate to give advice to the enemy although all the Amarr Militia need to do is work together and think about what needs to be done to fix it. Let me also remind you there are many times in the past year you far out numbered Minmatar Militia. So if we can get our act together then so can you.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2012-05-05 04:45:04 UTC
My major concern here is that they are making these changes for FLUFF RP reasons.

Which although fun, are terrible places to start from a perspective of game play and game balance. Though they should be consider as to how rules and elements of gameplay interact with RP, RP should not dictate a decision overriding balance. Station lockout just pretty much craps all over gameplay and the way FW works. They are making it freaking Null Sec Light which is and insult to lowsec players.

If you want to talk about this, militia is supposed to be a bunch of privateers not a freaking real military. So those saying stuff like front lines this and that make me LOL.

Also station lock out is not incentive for anything other then to leave FW and lowsec space. Its a disincentive to even bother joining FW.

FW is supposed to be a good place for people to go that just want to PvP or newer players to come in and get some fights without having to be in a major alliance. Station lock out pretty much craps all over some safety nets new pvpers and players should have.

Look I can write papers about why this is a bad idea. But its freaking moronically stupid to have station lockouts in low sec. Thats something the belongs in null.




**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#243 - 2012-05-05 04:51:31 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
...By resetting Sov, everyone has a fair chance, and if one faction gets crushed after that, its their own fault, not the fault of the mechanical changes..

No, by resetting occupancy you are resetting occupancy, fairness doesn't factor in to it.

If fairness is the goal then no major mechanics changes should be implemented without first addressing the stupidly lopsided NPC balance, geographical balance and the base plexing mechanic (orbiting is not all its cracked up to be).

Sometime down the road we might get NPC reblanced, but I frankly doubt they can/will do as promised and use some incursion stuff for it .. so as far as I am concerned FW is over. All my stuff (3 years of collecting adds up!) is spread out in border systems which will be the first to drop as Minnies keep the easy mode captures done by single frigs, have numerical superiority in just about all TZ and never be more than 5-6 minutes from major reinforcements thanks to geography (you should try offensive plexing as Amarr in the minnie backwater .. takes forever to even get there for Goddess sake!).
I do take a little pleasure in knowing that due to these facts, the Shakorite's will be drowning in LP for the first several months so all their LP store goods will be utterly worthless Lol

Either CCP resets and moves stuff to nearest border or they contact each and every person with stuff in locked out systems to hear where they'd like it teleported to .. would the CCP you know do the former or the latter?P
BolsterBomb wrote:
Because blob warefare pawns all amirite

If you knew anything about organized plexing, then yes blobbing truly does "pawn all". Only way for that to change is to make some pretty drastic changes to the plexing mechanics themselves which I don't think will happen in the foreseeable future.
By the way, all the "Yay .. we are not invisible, lets have scraps for supper!" people who embraced the idiocy of 6-7 hrs flips in December used your exact arguments .. "when plexes are everywhere, all the time the blob won't work" .. guess what ...

Want to eradicate the blob (most of it anyway)?:
Change;
- Introduce poison-pills to all mission plexes (just because, and needed for ..)
- Remove any and all automatically spawning plexes, replace with player generated sites (has pills, remember? Smile)
- Introduce useful strategic feedback in militia interface (ie. systems under attack messages)
Result;
- Attacker can't park a blob in a central location and have satellite crews capping plexes in adjacent systems because by the time they arrive the plex is gone.
- Ninja plexing is obsoleted, and
- Time spent becomes equivalent of benefit (zero LP for defender, so zero time).
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#244 - 2012-05-05 06:34:33 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
My major concern here is that they are making these changes for FLUFF RP reasons.

Which although fun, are terrible places to start from a perspective of game play and game balance. Though they should be consider as to how rules and elements of gameplay interact with RP, RP should not dictate a decision overriding balance. Station lockout just pretty much craps all over gameplay and the way FW works. They are making it freaking Null Sec Light which is and insult to lowsec players.

If you want to talk about this, militia is supposed to be a bunch of privateers not a freaking real military. So those saying stuff like front lines this and that make me LOL.

Also station lock out is not incentive for anything other then to leave FW and lowsec space. Its a disincentive to even bother joining FW.

FW is supposed to be a good place for people to go that just want to PvP or newer players to come in and get some fights without having to be in a major alliance. Station lock out pretty much craps all over some safety nets new pvpers and players should have.

Look I can write papers about why this is a bad idea. But its freaking moronically stupid to have station lockouts in low sec. Thats something the belongs in null.






LOL I can see some of these discussions gettng quite heated...

Have to disagree with you Rouge. Taking space and having a frontline is more about securing your assets and to give a buffer to those systems. The miltias regardsless of who the pilots or factions are, needs to have a strong income stream to be able to procure/build ships, ammo etc. Its all a matter of balance. Frontlines are drawn to safe guard systems that house those assets.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#245 - 2012-05-05 10:28:49 UTC
Hrett wrote:

2. LP for plexing: I don't think the current SiSi setup is right. It just encourages mostly unskilled alts in unfit Atrons or Condors to go to backwater systems and run buttons. It doesn't encourage actual furtherance of the war effort. FW would be flooded with even more useless plexing alts. Instead, I think both attackers AND defenders should get LP, but ONLY when the system is contested. That will create real conflict systems and 'fronts' where battles will take place. It should be possible, as this is similar to how faction rep is awarded to defenders. People can still earn LP from missions and killing.
The "no LP for defensive plexing" appears to be a really good idea to me since it automatically limits the amount of farmers cleaning up the mess the attackers have made. What is the real incentive for defensive plexing? System defense (especially your home system) and pew. Attack is what drives conflict, and therefore its the attackers that should get the majority of the rewards.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#246 - 2012-05-05 10:58:56 UTC
Not speaking for my corp here, this is my personal opinion - butt I do have quite a few ships and stuff in Nisuwa.

My opinion is if a Sov reset were to lock me out of Nisuwa I could live without those ships for a few days maybe even weeks until we recapture that system....

I also would imagine there would be sufficient time and warning of this reset to be able to move stuff from there to some safer location if needed too, so all the people crying yet again about station lock outs resulting from a reset are being rather lazy.

The historical legacy of the effort put in to capture these systems I do have some sympathy with, and I'd be quite happy for CCP to perhaps convert all those VP to LP for the people who have put the work in in the past, but if a Sov reset is the quickest way to jumpstart FW back into a healthy life then I'm all for it sorry.

Look at the bigger picture before you post. Cheers.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#247 - 2012-05-05 11:21:41 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:

The historical legacy of the effort put in to capture these systems I do have some sympathy with, and I'd be quite happy for CCP to perhaps convert all those VP to LP for the people who have put the work in in the past, but if a Sov reset is the quickest way to jumpstart FW back into a healthy life then I'm all for it sorry.
The big question is why would a sov reset jumpstart FW? If the currently proposed mechanics are going to work, they need to work when one side has an advantage over the other as well as when both sides are even. BTW, now that we have an exchange rate for VP to LP (17k LP for a medium plex, XXX VP for a medium plex), I feel it's time for CCP to reimburse all my hard work! :D

Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#248 - 2012-05-05 11:37:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
It would jumpstart FW because the big CCP fanfare will draw new people to FW and the excitement of players starting FW after the patch would quickly evaporate for people if for example they join Gallente and find they hold 1 system on day 1 after the patch.

This overwhelming situation combined with old miserable farts like me and Damar spewing putrid bile at all these new recruits about how fail us Gallente are might put a lot of new recruits off. Blink

If a fresh start (to Sov) with all the pomp and ceremony CCP can muster - pretty trailers of Nyxes crashing into stations etc etc - breathes new life and players into FW I think it would be a positive thing. Not saying it is "fair" or whatever for the people who have put the effort in in the past, which is why I think all those hard earned (lol) VP should perhaps become worthwhile by being converted to LP.

Val, Sasawong, yourself (X G) and Damar would all get a tidy windfalls for their heroic efforts of the past no doubt. Big smile
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#249 - 2012-05-05 12:43:14 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Val, Sasawong, yourself (X G) and Damar would all get a tidy windfalls for their heroic efforts of the past no doubt. Big smile


I would buy a carrier. For every pilot in my alliance. Then i'd get a titan and selfdestruct it for the lulz.

Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#250 - 2012-05-05 13:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cromwell Savage
I joined FW 3 years ago just as the squids "took" all of our systems. While I am far from a "serious" plexer, I helped out where I could when I could to get where we are now - to include my "home" system. I continue to defend it and the squids still have not retaken it (even though they've come close a few times P).

I already think the full system "lockout" is absolutely ******** to begin with and should only be limited to militia owned stations (i.e. FDU/STAPRO/etc...) - but a sov reset upon release with the current auto station lockout would most definately be the icing on the cake for me.

I've settled down some from my intial reaction to this stupid docking feature and am now willing to "wait and see", but if there is an arbitrary sov reset and I'm locked out of my station through "no fault" of my/our own, then absolutely FW can lick my brown eye.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#251 - 2012-05-05 16:14:21 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
The "no LP for defensive plexing" appears to be a really good idea to me since it automatically limits the amount of farmers cleaning up the mess the attackers have made. What is the real incentive for defensive plexing? System defense (especially your home system) and pew. Attack is what drives conflict, and therefore its the attackers that should get the majority of the rewards.


I disagree Now, when you chase someone out of a plex they are running, you get no reward (except to fight off the stick of losing docking access to the system you are fighting over, which you may or may not care about for that particular system). What incentive now is there to defend plexes in hikko, immuri, pyne, kedama, hirri etc?

IMO, no LP for defense is completely borked.
Marcus Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2012-05-05 16:40:22 UTC
Something like half the LP rewards for defensive plexes. I think you should get something but definitely not as much as offensive, since they can be run with an unfitted t1 frig.
Mister Kwong
Doomheim
#253 - 2012-05-05 17:43:11 UTC
I think the docking restrictions will seriously hinder new players from joining and staying in FW. Most of the people in favor of the docking restrictions like Julius or Victer seems to be veterans (at least I think they are?) but they don't understand how challenging it will be for the newbies to stay in FW. It is stupid for CCP to ask for young players who have no alt to go create another alt on the same account and postpone training time with our main. Or even dumber to ask us to get 2nd account just for this.

People don't understand that the younger players are likely to suffer the most because of the docking restrictions. But what does their opinions matter since it's only the vets whose opinions matter as Hans pointed out Roll
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#254 - 2012-05-05 19:12:19 UTC
chatgris wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
The "no LP for defensive plexing" appears to be a really good idea to me since it automatically limits the amount of farmers cleaning up the mess the attackers have made. What is the real incentive for defensive plexing? System defense (especially your home system) and pew. Attack is what drives conflict, and therefore its the attackers that should get the majority of the rewards.


I disagree Now, when you chase someone out of a plex they are running, you get no reward (except to fight off the stick of losing docking access to the system you are fighting over, which you may or may not care about for that particular system). What incentive now is there to defend plexes in hikko, immuri, pyne, kedama, hirri etc?

IMO, no LP for defense is completely borked.


I will probably make 9 alts like certain gallente players and have them run defensives all day in stabbed condors if LP is rewarded for defensive plexing. I think the whole LP for offensive plexing is nice, and you defend systems to gaurd your assets and lower the LP cost of your items in the LP store.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#255 - 2012-05-05 19:16:40 UTC
Mister Kwong wrote:
I think the docking restrictions will seriously hinder new players from joining and staying in FW. Most of the people in favor of the docking restrictions like Julius or Victer seems to be veterans (at least I think they are?) but they don't understand how challenging it will be for the newbies to stay in FW. It is stupid for CCP to ask for young players who have no alt to go create another alt on the same account and postpone training time with our main. Or even dumber to ask us to get 2nd account just for this.

People don't understand that the younger players are likely to suffer the most because of the docking restrictions. But what does their opinions matter since it's only the vets whose opinions matter as Hans pointed out Roll

U r right ... And even the vets r not happy about it .... I checked history of people who strongly advocating it and most of hem are either alts or not very active in fw.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#256 - 2012-05-05 19:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
amarr's 18 remaining systems (mostly in dumb places) means the amarr will be even less able to fight than they are now, so with that i expect my corp and a few others will have to reluctantly leave fw, real shame :(

Minnies have been plexing the hell out of the remaining systems since these changes hit sisi taking advantage the current 6-8 hour system flip rathe rthan the new one when the changes hit.

a system reset is the only way not to crush the amarr completely if ccp are serious about the changes.

oh well its been fun, so now how does one pirate in low sec?

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Shalee Lianne
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#257 - 2012-05-05 19:20:17 UTC
I do believe that FW will become so much worse for newer players. Station lock outs will be a big deal to someone new to the game who doesn't have alts to move their things, etc.

Also, with all of the datacore farming that is going to happen, I doubt new players are going to get picked up for plexing fleets, who is going to want to share LP with them?

Station lockouts are going to be bad for pvp as well because now we can roam all over the warzone, but once we are locked out of 75% of the stations, I think we are going to stay very close to home.

Already with FW we get shot at if we go into enemy highsec. Now we are just getting more limited on where we can go. Station lockout is not a good thing IMO.

Corporations who are looking to join FW after the expansion are going to join the side that is winning, who wants to join the losing side and have one or two systems you can maybe dock in?

Datacore farming is not enough of an incentive to join the losing side. A player can always go run Incursion and make more ISK and not have their standings butchered to the enemy side and have access to dock wherever. So yeah.
http://amarrian.blogspot.com/  ~ Roleplay blog. http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/ ~ Faction War blog.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#258 - 2012-05-05 20:01:43 UTC
Shalee Lianne wrote:
I do believe that FW will become so much worse for newer players. Station lock outs will be a big deal to someone new to the game who doesn't have alts to move their things, etc.


Because yeah, they won't be getting recruited into FW corps that already have foundations who could help them out with stuff like that

Shalee Lianne wrote:
Also, with all of the datacore farming that is going to happen, I doubt new players are going to get picked up for plexing fleets, who is going to want to share LP with them?


What they can't organize roams on their own? LP will only be handed out for Plexing after the patch?

Shalee Lianne wrote:
Station lockouts are going to be bad for pvp as well because now we can roam all over the warzone, but once we are locked out of 75% of the stations, I think we are going to stay very close to home.

Already with FW we get shot at if we go into enemy highsec. Now we are just getting more limited on where we can go. Station lockout is not a good thing IMO.


Well then I guess you'd better look at taking strategic systems and holding them to base from.

Shalee Lianne wrote:
Corporations who are looking to join FW after the expansion are going to join the side that is winning, who wants to join the losing side and have one or two systems you can maybe dock in?

Datacore farming is not enough of an incentive to join the losing side. A player can always go run Incursion and make more ISK and not have their standings butchered to the enemy side and have access to dock wherever. So yeah.


Sounds like you're planning on becoming an Incursion runner, so why are you crying about FW?
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2012-05-05 20:07:19 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
amarr's 18 remaining systems (mostly in dumb places) means the amarr will be even less able to fight than they are now, so with that i expect my corp and a few others will have to reluctantly leave fw, real shame :(

Minnies have been plexing the hell out of the remaining systems since these changes hit sisi taking advantage the current 6-8 hour system flip rathe rthan the new one when the changes hit.

a system reset is the only way not to crush the amarr completely if ccp are serious about the changes.

oh well its been fun, so now how does one pirate in low sec?


Just base out of Minmatar highsec. That will become a very viable alternative if we can all rat ourselves up to -1.9

.

Galatica789
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#260 - 2012-05-05 20:12:04 UTC
They should make it once squids enter the plex they cant warp off till its done, sicne they always seem to run QQ