Warfare & Tactics

And with numbers being so lopsided they are, one side can send their own fast gang after the other fast gang while still outnumbering it and thus nothing comes out of it.

Why do blobs/blocs/nap-lists exist do you reckon? No one in their right mind (ie. not insane/psychotic/masochistic) enjoys losing their ships/fights again and again even if said losses are redeemed 100%.
We 'huddle up' in blobs/blocs/nap-lists mainly to avoid losing streaks going on forever, it is the old flock/pack mentality (older than civilization itself) so how the hell can you possibly think that it suddenly stops applying?

We have had two plus years of people getting more than enough from farming missions, so much so that missions for non-farmers have become useless .. unless missions are nerfed into the ground (which is never going to happen) the loss of what amounts to an extra income source will go entirely unnoticed to a dominating side.

If missions are nerfed severely, then my guess is that we will have corps joining their alts into opposing milita - spend afk time defensive plexing and reaping LP with mains (think the week long Caldari standings-abuse showcase a few years back) ... we players (read: everyone but me, obviously ) will and consistently do abuse the slightest gap in CCP's train of thought and this coming expansion has gaps large enough to fit my Providence through!

This is assuming that CCP manages to balance the plexes to a point where solo/duo capping becomes impossible .. current modus operandi that I have observed (both sides) when numbers are in ones favour is to have main group/gang/fleet kill initial troublesome spawn/manage aggro and then leave capping to redundant pilot/ship freeing up remainder to suppress/kill any attempt to stop it.
So you are right, nothing is changing here. Raw numbers will trump everything else with only one-shot gimmicks (like the Gallente smartbomb thingie on YouTube) breaking the trend.

Do you really want to participate in FW when you are rewarded for, nay required to multi-account/dual-box just to compete?

Still missing data, but had to point out the lapses in your logic, main whines to come when I have digested the promised blogs .. naturally hope I won't have to, but CCP has not exactly shown that they have any idea of what the hell FW is and seem to go by what their precious metrics/models tell them.

PS: Hans, we all know and love the mad scientist CCP Dr.EyjoG and his breakdown of the market numbers .. but what CCP could really use is an anthropologist, psychologist or similar to help them come to terms with that most elusive creature called human nature. Please forward my suggestion through channels, thank you

Good point. I am not sure how the no lp for defensive plexing will work out. Will the defending side let the other side flip a system or two so they can then farm the lp? Will both sides greedilly farm the the offensive plexes and pass eachother like 2 ships in the night? I agree this is hard to know how this will work out in practice and whether this will actually yield more plex fights.

I feel like Im talking to a wall sometimes guys. For a moment have a positive outlook. Its easy to see the negative and not see what it could bring as positives.

I will spell out the offensive tactics on how this will work.

Your blobs will not work with flipping systems until it gets to the bunker bust.

Ex: Gal vs Caldari US TZ

Nis -3 days

50 man gallente blob was sighted. Caldari had about 20ish "sorta combined" people, we left.

Yes the 50 man blob will be able to wreck havock, but here is the thing. Caldari say FU blob and go run to another system.

Gallente are blobing their systems but the nimble caldari fleet is able to contest 2-3 systems before the blob can retaliate. What happens, the blob then deblobs into mini blobs to protect / hit various system.

By the gals deblobing there is still 50 active pilots running around but now they are 5 groups of 10 which the Caldari can fight.

Your statements that the blob will be able to do system denial is 100% accurate, if you want to park your blob there. Remember if you park the blob there are many other systems to take. If we hit and run we dont necessarily have to hold the system.

By taking the plexes we are getting LP , we get LP for the kills, and we get LP for flipping the system. If my option is to run a mission or flip a system with pvp while running from the blob, Ill take that.

I am not worried about the caldari having no home system to park y toys in. You wont be able to own 100% of every system and neither will we.

The system will always cater to the underdog because the underdog will have more options to gain LP. Missioners will be too lazy to move so everything balances itself out.

Again this is the big part you are missing, the only way a faction can be backed into a corner is if the faction does not work together.

Thats the thing you guys are missing. We have the numbers to fight you in any TZ. The problem is the coordination, which is being fixed.

US TZ Squids - The4, Squids, Proj Cerb, 22nd, DCE, and more. Thats over 90 active pilots that are pvp pilots. You will not be able to blob out coordinated attacks.

Welcome to the real FW

Why would the blob care that Caldari "contests" 2-3 systems and deblob? They will have forty hours to go over and deal with that system. Why not just keep taking systems right next to eachother so that if the caldari do try anything they can all warp in and blob them?

The blobs will be the only entities that can finish the job.

You do understand that people have defended space so far for no reward, aside from caldari COSMOS grinds. Main reason dedicated plexers do what they do is simple. They hate each others gut so much they are willing to put up with that ****. Hell, one of them (who supposedly is a father of three daughters) recently infiltrated our voice comms and delivered a message to me, which was about half a minute rant of "f..ggot, c.nt, ba.tard" untill I laughed and muted him.

Great example for your offspring by the way.

But I digress. Best example is of course yours Black Onyx Society which is basicly one guy with 7 alts and his sole reason for doing it is because he hates me. He also likes to go apeshit in local whenever someone harasses his atron alts but that's another story.

Yes, I understand that there are the very few dedicated plexers doing the vast majority of the plexing. However, those few people cannot deplex systems that you are actively plexing with a small gang without backup from the pvpers. Those pvpers are currently very happy to come help for the hope of a fight. If there is no fight, they leave. If there was LP for defensive plexing, they would be willing to do that and stick around. Since there is no new reward, there will not be any new defensive plexers. The current defensive plexers just cannot defend the entire warzone by themselves.

Here is how it will work: Dedicated plexer: "WTs are coming into my plex in system XYZ" PVPers "XYZ is very close to me, on my way" or PVPers "XYZ is too far away. I'm going to fly all the way up there and get no fight nor any LP. I'm going to ignore you now and go back to something that involves making isk or blowing something up."

The attacking side will always have more plexers since there is incentive to plex. As long as the number of dedicated/diehard plexers doesn't change much and stay in relative balance, we should see a pretty stable warfront with neither side able to really hold large amounts of conquered systems.

As long as the blob stops you before 40 hours is up, unduing your work is easilly done with an alt in a frigate. Why? Because it is just running a defensive plex in systems you can not dock in. Once the larger side has mopped up the area it will be easy to patrol.

I don't think we need to look to star trek. I think we can just see how it is done in null sec.

Now if the time to flip a system unopposed was just @ 1 hour instead of @ 40 hours then yeah I agree the blob would need to split up.

I also totally agree that with all of the changes on the table for this expansion, the most fair thing to do would be to reset Sov across the board. I've already been talking to CCP about this particular issue.

As it stands right now, occupancy is a 6-7 hour exercise, and flips every day all over the place, and is meaningless. It's really difficult to say that the current ownership is something worth protecting, especially since I can guarantee that if they DONT do a global reset of Sov there will be mass plexing as we approach the release date, the factions with the greatest numbers right now will own all the systems, which will then become much more permanent.

I'd hate to see this whole new war system start out with one side hideously defeated either practically (from all the penalties) or morale-wise and simply want to quit the war, or quit the game. By resetting Sov, everyone has a fair chance, and if one faction gets crushed after that, its their own fault, not the fault of the mechanical changes.

CCP can't make all the factional enrollment numbers equal, and they can't make some factions get along better than others, but they can give every faction an equal fighting chance at the start of the new war.

At least it will be less challenging to take a system than I thought. It will still be pretty difficult, but with the fiscal incentives for the attacker, it might balance out. We'll see.