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Possibly too far with balancing Incursions?

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#401 - 2012-05-04 17:33:26 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:

Or a dead end pocket, 2 accounts, 1 tower and about 10 anchorable bubbles.


And if you don't own the space, it will last until the actuall owners show up and drop dreads on it. In order to keep it, you need an alliance level commitment behind you. That means fighting, losing ships, putting up with ego manic FCs and CEOs, trying to figure out jabber and TS ect ect. No one gives it to you, you have to go take it.

Know what I had to do to get into incursions? Buy a Nightmare and fit it, then link fit in incursion chat when my buddy is asleep lol.

Quote:

Your argument is totally flawed, not sure you even read my post before sperging your reply.


I read it, found it lacking.

Quote:
I don't really care about the incursions, I'd like to see a better balance of the risk vs reward you speak of especially in null.


The risk I deal with is Goons coming to take it all away...or one guy in a cloaky ship just sitting there lol.

Quote:

Anyone who argues there is no risk with running hi-sec incs obviously doesn't run them... Sure with a competent group there is less risk, just like you say about how you believe you make null safer. You need to build a network of friends in order to make it safer. But it's PvE risk, not PvP risk. Unlike null where the PvE is low risk, it's PvP you need to be careful of.


And eve is a pvp game.....

In low/null/WH space, you risk PVP AND PVE risks (like scramming frigs and that damn super torp in a few of the 10/10s), where as in high sec, the pvp risk is lessened by concord. Why people like you think that a place with half the risk (high sec) should be as profitiable as places with BOTH types of risk is beyond understanding for me.

I will never get high sec players. It's obvious to most peopel I think that in a game with a safe zone and then less safe zones, more "adventure" or in our case, isk) would be the further away from safety. But high sec players feel like it's somehow proper to have good profitable content in a place where non-consensual pvp risk is lessened? I imagine high sec players eat a lot of burger king because they love to "have it their way" lol.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#402 - 2012-05-04 18:27:49 UTC
rofl

...

XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#403 - 2012-05-04 19:02:59 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
rofl
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#404 - 2012-05-04 22:37:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
And eve is a pvp game.....



No, it isn't. It's a sandbox. Nothing more, nothing less.

You don't go on a garry's mod server and ***** about people building stuff instead of shooting each other, do you?

thhief ghabmoef
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#405 - 2012-05-04 22:59:14 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
And eve is a pvp game.....



No, it isn't. It's a sandbox. Nothing more, nothing less.

You don't go on a garry's mod server and ***** about people building stuff instead of shooting each other, do you?


No, its a pvp game.

Pvp is not limited to shooting stuff.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#406 - 2012-05-04 23:19:53 UTC
I think the multi boxers where the final nail in the coffin for incursions.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#407 - 2012-05-04 23:56:53 UTC
No one cares about people multiboxing, especially not CCP.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#408 - 2012-05-05 09:37:47 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
I think the multi boxers where the final nail in the coffin for incursions.



Multiboxers can still do incursions... There's one guy with a fleet of Tengu that does rather well at them. I don't think he does OTA's but even if he takes 10-15 mins a site... he's getting all the isk for each site. That would work out about 400-450 mill per hour.
Leeloo Alizee
Orion Constellation Inc.
#409 - 2012-05-05 11:09:57 UTC
Njurg, Njurg bla bla truc truc cry

Good, no more greed in incursion, now fun fleets starts.
New player, t1 BS or something similar with T2 it had noooooo chance to get into fleet, or to get in to so called "fail fleet" or "kitchen sink fleet" and all they were able to do, is to assist and "help" legion leet to do site faster.

Now that new players are geting somwhere, in fleet and learning, and geting some isk, and legion "uber buber shiny blitz super extra" fleet is disbound.

More fun, more time to do site, less payment..... all ok

What i personaly dont like, is sansha cheating. Example: Oneiros logi pilot, hi grade halo set (omega included) with perfect OGB (signature radius with all bonuses 35m) orbiting with speed of 600m/sec with 1600 plate with resist 90/85/94/80 armor tanking elite certificates, going deep into armor with 2 strikes, even before it is posible to switch repers from other logis. Not going to mentioned if he gets webbed. that is panic.

Problem is, that cruiser with cruiser size plate WILL INSTAPOP before repers finish their cycle.

UNEXEPTABLE CCP

Dont care what are you going to do, but this cant stand here, cruiser is biggest logi ship that can enter site, fix incoming damage on cruisers, or make tier 4 BC with logi abilitis, or even BS or F urself

Best regards

Leeloo Alizee
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame
#410 - 2012-05-05 16:06:48 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Just an update, I am reading through all this feedback and we will be making a more detailed post next week about our own findings. I have also had some really valuable feedback, both while the changes were on SISI and now they are on TQ, from the owner and co-owner of BTL pub and other long-term Incursion runners. I have even run Incursions on SISI with them to see how they felt about the changes live.

I don't have anything concrete to tell you right now, but I just wanted to make an update post to let you all know I am still reading this and we do care!

I fully understand that a lot of you are angry but if we could all try and aim for constructive feedback from now on, it will help quicken this process a lot.
''I HATE IT ALL!! YOU SUCK'' <-- an example of a post that isn't going to help.

To dispel any myths - The changes on SISI and TQ were exactly the same, this isn't even up for debate as it's just a fact and it's just how our development process works.



well, i wonder if you tryed to get an alt and actually try to run them on the live server ? in both shield and armour fleet ? during a normal day of the week ? (less people available)

right now, vanguards are considerably hard (riskier) because of the extra incoming DPS, so you need a full grid of 3 logis and 7-8 DPs (-10% payout if you run with 8, on top of -10% nerf) , when before, was doable with 2 logis and 4-6 DPS (but not advisable due to possible disconnections)

so, lots of times you can't pull enough members to even run a fleet , not even trying to get ppl from BTL and TDF and other channels, because most people are simply not up to put with the increased risk vs long time waiting to get full fleet members.


when you get a bunch of people to go on the test server, it seems doable ...
but when you test on the real server, waiting the hole day to have a fleet moving and you don't get enough people, you realise that you might as well not waste you're time waiting for a fleet that is not gonna roll and next day, you don't even bother x'xing up ...


simply put ... you did not took in consideration the time people take to have 10 people to fly a fleet. wile before, you could run with 2 logis, now you need 3 minimum, and if 1 pilot leaves, the fleet will be unable to run, which will might take minutes to hours, and when people spend hours waiting and the fleet does not run, people don't bother x-xing up after a couple days like that.
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2012-05-05 18:10:21 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
I think the multi boxers where the final nail in the coffin for incursions.


Dual box with IS Boxer and you will make more than enough to keep you happy, But this is a interesting point, This might be the new dawn of dual/triple boxing, Somthing i don't want to see imo.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#412 - 2012-05-06 06:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Katy Ling wrote:
[quote=CCP Affinity]Just an update, I am reading through all this feedback and we will be making a more detailed post next week about our own findings. I have also had some really valuable feedback, both while the changes were on SISI and now they are on TQ, from the owner and co-owner of BTL pub and other long-term Incursion runners. I have even run Incursions on SISI with them to see how they felt about the changes live.

I don't have anything concrete to tell you right now, but I just wanted to make an update post to let you all know I am still reading this and we do care!

I fully understand that a lot of you are angry but if we could all try and aim for constructive feedback from now on, it will help quicken this process a lot.
''I HATE IT ALL!! YOU SUCK'' <-- an example of a post that isn't going to help.

To dispel any myths - The changes on SISI and TQ were exactly the same, this isn't even up for debate as it's just a fact and it's just how our development process works.



Where is this quote from? Has a single real armor veteran been questioned?
BTL is only a shield channel for all intensive purposes.
What TDF council member was consulted?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Devore Sekk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#413 - 2012-05-09 17:57:09 UTC
RabbidFerret wrote:
A few days before the nerf we had a node drop. Half of our fleet DCed during an OTA. Luckily, 2 basis stayed online. We had them close to burning out all of their mods but they managed to save the fleet. After 8 years of playing Eve, I have never relied so heavily on the skill and aptitude of another player. That was a moment of sheer camaraderie among complete strangers; an example of why CCP should model more of it's mechanics around Incursions.


And despite half the fleet dropping, you still completed the site. Now THAT'S risk! CCP, please make more content which can be massively overpowered and still provide great income.

Ok, so so far the risks to incursions are:

- war decks and suicide gankers
- logi pilots falling asleep and your shiny faction BS not getting reps in time
- half the fleet DCing

This IS very much a conversation about risks, and don't try to turn it around. Everything in EVE is about risk/reward.
Janoun
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#414 - 2012-05-10 10:14:27 UTC
Leeloo Alizee wrote:
Problem is, that cruiser with cruiser size plate WILL INSTAPOP before repers finish their cycle.

UNEXEPTABLE CCP

Dont care what are you going to do, but this cant stand here, cruiser is biggest logi ship that can enter site, fix incoming damage on cruisers, or make tier 4 BC with logi abilitis, or even BS or F urself


I agree,
It's completely unexeptable
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#415 - 2012-05-10 15:26:25 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I think the multi boxers where the final nail in the coffin for incursions.



Multiboxers can still do incursions... There's one guy with a fleet of Tengu that does rather well at them. I don't think he does OTA's but even if he takes 10-15 mins a site... he's getting all the isk for each site. That would work out about 400-450 mill per hour.


If i recall thats Dingodan, He's a funny guy, Full Nightmare's and RR Tengu's, He is very good with the IS Boxer etc, The amount of Isk he was racking in Pre Patch was crazy.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#416 - 2012-05-10 15:28:44 UTC
Devore Sekk wrote:
RabbidFerret wrote:
A few days before the nerf we had a node drop. Half of our fleet DCed during an OTA. Luckily, 2 basis stayed online. We had them close to burning out all of their mods but they managed to save the fleet. After 8 years of playing Eve, I have never relied so heavily on the skill and aptitude of another player. That was a moment of sheer camaraderie among complete strangers; an example of why CCP should model more of it's mechanics around Incursions.


And despite half the fleet dropping, you still completed the site. Now THAT'S risk! CCP, please make more content which can be massively overpowered and still provide great income.

Ok, so so far the risks to incursions are:

- war decks and suicide gankers
- logi pilots falling asleep and your shiny faction BS not getting reps in time
- half the fleet DCing

This IS very much a conversation about risks, and don't try to turn it around. Everything in EVE is about risk/reward.



There is a reason why you run with communitys and not Public fleets, Regarding the isk issue at this minute, There is not a problem for the high end communitys, They are earning 100 mill per hour roughly, However the problem at this time is the public fleets.

But seriously, Join a decent community, It isn't CCP's fault if you didn't do research on the current FC.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2012-05-10 15:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Ronin
Katy Ling wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Just an update, I am reading through all this feedback and we will be making a more detailed post next week about our own findings. I have also had some really valuable feedback, both while the changes were on SISI and now they are on TQ, from the owner and co-owner of BTL pub and other long-term Incursion runners. I have even run Incursions on SISI with them to see how they felt about the changes live.

I don't have anything concrete to tell you right now, but I just wanted to make an update post to let you all know I am still reading this and we do care!

I fully understand that a lot of you are angry but if we could all try and aim for constructive feedback from now on, it will help quicken this process a lot.
''I HATE IT ALL!! YOU SUCK'' <-- an example of a post that isn't going to help.

To dispel any myths - The changes on SISI and TQ were exactly the same, this isn't even up for debate as it's just a fact and it's just how our development process works.



well, i wonder if you tryed to get an alt and actually try to run them on the live server ? in both shield and armour fleet ? during a normal day of the week ? (less people available)

right now, vanguards are considerably hard (riskier) because of the extra incoming DPS, so you need a full grid of 3 logis and 7-8 DPs (-10% payout if you run with 8, on top of -10% nerf) , when before, was doable with 2 logis and 4-6 DPS (but not advisable due to possible disconnections)

so, lots of times you can't pull enough members to even run a fleet , not even trying to get ppl from BTL and TDF and other channels, because most people are simply not up to put with the increased risk vs long time waiting to get full fleet members.


when you get a bunch of people to go on the test server, it seems doable ...
but when you test on the real server, waiting the hole day to have a fleet moving and you don't get enough people, you realise that you might as well not waste you're time waiting for a fleet that is not gonna roll and next day, you don't even bother x'xing up ...


simply put ... you did not took in consideration the time people take to have 10 people to fly a fleet. wile before, you could run with 2 logis, now you need 3 minimum, and if 1 pilot leaves, the fleet will be unable to run, which will might take minutes to hours, and when people spend hours waiting and the fleet does not run, people don't bother x-xing up after a couple days like that.




Why are you even posting that when you lack the information before hand, Vanguards have less incoming dps than they did Pre-Patch, Due to there is no Triggers, So no DDD, Duh... The other thing is like i said again, Join a decent community, Is it CCP's fault that you join the worst fleet in Incursion History, No it isn't.


I just cannot simply understand why this is even up for debate, Have you heard of a Off Grid Booster, You know, The thing that gives you some love, For future reference please use the correct fleet comp and use known pilots, Join a community that is trust worthy and get a group of people you trust.

Vanguard is easly done with 2 logi and 10 dps, ISN runs 12 on grid for many reasons, Just make sure you do some research on the FC and check the Logistic's, We have been testing the new site's and they are not that bad, All my tank is on my Vindi is a Pith C type Inv, and a damage control, No LSE or rig's, This is the wonder of a Off Grid Booster.

Invest in the correct fleet comp instead of idiots hitting F1.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#418 - 2012-05-10 15:51:26 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
I think the multi boxers where the final nail in the coffin for incursions.


Multi-boxers just means more income and customer base stats for CCP, any way you cut it.
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#419 - 2012-05-11 13:31:09 UTC
Katja Faith wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I think the multi boxers where the final nail in the coffin for incursions.


Multi-boxers just means more income and customer base stats for CCP, any way you cut it.



Yup, All comes down to the Numbers in the End.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Tierere
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2012-05-11 20:02:00 UTC
RIP incursions