Missions & Complexes

Straight up L4 pay without salvaging and LP sales afterward isn't that great. Unless you hit a hotstreak with your missions the pay is roughly 20-30 mil an hour?

For younger players who need a means of making isk to progress up the incursion ladder, to afford the bigger ships and more expensive modules having Scout Sites changed to reflect the above and pay out that much would be justified. Yes L4's usually take Battleships (or T2/T3 cruisers) but they're also a solo income. Scout sites would have tighter ship restrictions that means you can't roll them over, and reward teamwork.

In my opinion teamwork should always be better rewarded than solo play, it's an MMO. I don't want to discourage solo play, but the best rewards should be through working with others towards a common goal.

I'm quite a new player (like, 3 months old) and I recently started running those incursions. I have not been around before the nerf, so I don't have something to compare it with. I do however think that you should always remember that there's a lot more hassle to incursions then to missions. You have to move between systems (just made 20 jumps to get to the new incursion), you have to gather AND keep together a fleet (don't forget getting into one can also take some time), .... So they should surely offer a lot more money per hour than missions do as you lose a lot of time getting organized and ready to start. However, I agree with the nerf, as hitting more than 100mil/hr is just way too much. There are a few points I'd like to make:

- Buff lowsec and nullsec incursions, being there with your pimped ship is just dangerous, and you should either make (almost) double the income compared to highsec or make a bit more when using simple T1 battleships to do them. (to cover losses)
Or you could make them more difficult AND more rewarding, like the complexes work.

- Buff vanguards a little bit but make sure you can make more money while doing the bigger sites, make it work like missions, the higher the difficulty and the higher the alpha damage from the waves, the more rewarding it gets

- I heard something about the bonus for the fleet commander, I think it's a really good idea to encourage more people to FC those fleets, we currently are a bit low on FC's and there are often a lot of (good) fits being spammed in the incursion channels just because all FC's are busy. Reward them for all their work!

I'm really, but really, happy about the random spawns, it is just too easy to look up the triggers on some random website and do those sites. Making random spawns makes the whole thing more difficult and less boring. Maybe the same could be done for missions? So you need to use at least a small portion of your braincells to complete them and can't just go to eve survival and check every possible detail of the mission.

As I said earlier, I'm still very new, so if some stuff I say here is completely wrong, just deal with it

o/ Soundwave

In the recent change's of Incursions it has made a dramatic change in the community's, As you would of noticed from statistics that Incursions aren't flooding the game with Isk like it did before the patch, Obviously down to many things, You increased the time of Incursions and decreased the payout for Vanguards.

Regarding the people that are saying "Carebears Cant Isk Whore Trolol" Well at this current time, Incursions are semi profitable, Yes you can still make 100 million per hour if you are in a community with high standards, For instance people have been "Blitzing" Incursions for Isk earning 1 Bill per day for what two years? Take that away and of course people are going to strike from OTA's that take 12 minutes in Public fleets.

I can totally respect that CCP are trying to make it harder, I will admit, It is stupid for the amount you can earn, If you triple box? Well it's insane.

Question 1: CCP stated that you were going to "Buff" Assault sites, You have nerfed them by making them longer to do, Stating in a Dev Blog that Assaults were going to get a buff to get more of the Incursion communitys to do them, Why lie in a Dev Blog, Didn't you state that Inferno, Crucible is all about the community? Well Lying or not posting correct information isn't a good start to Inferno. ( Maybe i miss read it, please correct me if i did. )

Question 2: CCP said they where going to nerf Vanguards, I do agree with them, But why nerf them twice, Now what i mean by this is you have increased the time to do them, Also you have decreased the payout, So in a way its a 2x nerf, Which just sucks, If you only did one of these things a lot of people would not be bothered, Due to this myself and a lot of people have just stopped doing incursions to see how CCP is reacting to the community and what change's are going to be introduced at a later stage.


OTA: Like people have been discussing, Bring the Hacking array closer, Nobody EVER hack's it, Its just nice to look at in the distance, In 2 years of running Incursions or since Incarna came out i have only seen it been Hacked twice, Maybe people hack it a lot, That is from my personal experiences.

By bringing it loser, You are making it more friendly towards people who do less DPS fleets and who cannot blitz them like ISN, SSN, SAQD and sUmmer, Vanguards would be awesome if you implemented what you saying and bring back the 10% pay or change the kill order.


There is some Feedback, I understand there will be people that will Flame at what i type, Feedback is Feedback.


Herr Ronin

ISN Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network.

Yeah, you're right, but what I had to type there was 'increased risk'. I meant it's easier to lose ships in those headquarters than it is in Vanguards (not taking into account the sometimes horrible FC's there).




Here you have a good point I wanted to make clear in my post, the bigger sites should not only pay more because they take longer to complete, the time before even going in there is very long. If you take as an average that people run about 4 headquarters before quitting, 10 people are leaving after every site, as a result, it takes a lot of time before you have the replacements on grid and ready to start the next site.

2/3rrd of the Vanguards now take 3X to 5X longer:
The Vanguard OTAs are horrendous, tedius, and stacking like pancakes. When I do pickup fleets to teach new peeps and help lower skilled pilots over the hump I end up disbanding the fleet when the Constellation becomes 100% OTA's. The hi sec Minitmar Incursion is the largest Sansha Incursion I've seen with 5 Vanguard constellations. Last night 8 hours before downtime there were 5-7 ( seriously there was a wall of 25-35 OTAs !!! ): OTAs in each system maybe 1 non OTA thruout the whole constellation.

2/3rds of the assault sites take longer:
The Assault NCS has become tedius and safer. Used to be the non unique ship spawn could fall on you at once! Tagging was a real challenge & all ships close & short would get into the fight because sometimes it was a fight for thier lives! Its was a fun challenge for me as a FC to manage those & they could often be deadly because the alpha often killed logi & we'd run on pure adrenlane after that keeping things together. Now it takes longer to finish becuase inevitably the close range ships wait around for longer periods of time almost like the old NCNs were the cruiser side nearly always waited for thebattleship side.
NCN's still take as long to form up as before too do to necessity of an exacting fleet compostison
OCFs take longer due to the additions of more ships ( augas ) and are now the only site were you may see any real danger. NCNs I guess the cruiser side have less of a wait but it does not seem signiicant. I guess they are a little bit shorter.

I've seen such a drop in the armor community with the nerf have not really been able to be in more then 2 or so HQ's.
The numbers dropping has made me think our community is on life support.

The problem with all PVE content is that eventually becomes boring and repetitive. Incursions are like raids where at least you have the social aspect to keep it fun. If it's too mind numbing, then you get bored and quit. If it's too much effort for the reward, it becomes tedious and you quit. The previous version of Incursions was not immune from this. They just paid out so much, most people who ran them didn't care.

Incursions are just a means to an end, we run them to make isk so we can enjoy the game. Like a job.
Once the fun or isk faction drops below a threshold we look at alternative means of income.

I think the social aspect is very important. This is an MMO and while this game is very conducive to the solo player, the real content for groups (especially around PVE) is severely lacking. Social interaction is the real basis of MMOs and while solo activities are fun, interaction is what keeps us logging on.

Unfortunately, because these factors are not measurable and to further complicate things, they're different for each player, this means there is no right answer. I propose you do remove the 10% payout cut. Then watch. See how the community reacts. Gather metrics on Incursion usage and see if the people running them is an acceptable population for the event. If you feel it's still too low, go further, if it's too high, cut it back a bit. CCP should work with the CSM to define a player threshold they think is acceptable for this PVE content.

I did run Incursions but the isk was a huge part of it. I feel bad for my corp mates because they can't fly pimped BSs. I'd like to see the lower end Incursions receive a buff so that while it's not as lucrative as VGs, they still get to experience cooperative game play in a manner that pays out more than they can do solo.

I think this last part is key. Current PVE content doesn't seem to scale. So many players (myself included) feel we can actually be more effective solo than we can in a group. I don't think there's anything wrong with being able to be effective on your own, but in an MMO setting it's important that whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

You have nerfed the fun out of incursions and now made them a chore and a pita - gj...

armor incursion is absolutely deserted; you can barely get in a fleet because there isn't any, nobody is doing OTAs anymore, the payout is pretty much miserable not necesarily because of the nerf, but especially because the influence bar fills much much more slowly now (people left and thus there are now fleets running or very few). It's rather sad it turned out this way, wouldn't want incursions become another worhtless EVE feature that nobody is using.
Like someone posted before you said you're gonna make assaults easier/ more atractive. Where is that?! NCS has actually more spawns than it did before, NCN is about as long as before and OCF seems exactly like before, all for the same payout (!). Where is the change/ buff? Also, new sites would be nice and maybe secondary objectives in sites for more payout or some rats warping off to make the site shorter

the rebalancing of incs has been very interesting and entertaining but you overdid on the otas
ill write what i think needs to be changed
vgs reput 10% pay

OTA: remove the mara keep the tower or the other way around OR make the mara spawn closer
NCO: nothing
NMC: make the mara spawn 10km closer even 5k km will do

NCN: great job they dont take forever anymore
NCS: make only 1 remote repper spawn at a time, instead of having otuni or 2 intaki make it both 1 intaki and 1 otuni same for maras
OCF: remove one auga form each spawn

hqs buff 8% payout

Reverse the "difficulty" changes and reduce the 0.0/low to highsec ratio from 0.6 to 0.3.


This is stupid and unncessary. Some strange people think that they're fun, and those people live in highsec. All that needs to be done is a very large reduction in their profitability in highsec. The fun won't change, only the money.

(I say the same for level 4s -- remove them from highsec and make new, better level 3s)