Warfare & Tactics

I think that if this system does go live though they should reset eveything. Then make it so that you have to gain territory in succesion. None of this grabing Tama and/or OMS right off the bat territory gain. You come in through a regional gate and capture the system, then move onto the next. This would force better fights and actually cause there to be a front line.

I agree with your idea that neutrals shouldn't even dock in our stations or maybe based on sec status. But you know CCP will have to cater also to pirates.

Some of us were discussing this yesterday.

If this does go through to live, then I like this concept.

I absolutely think this format would encourage more fighting, and prevent some of the meta gaming shenanigans (eg: noob alts plexing back systems to farm LP & blitzing mission hubs also come to mind, in addition to the Tama and Oms blitzing).

Denial of docking rights is still a poorly thought out concept though.

Naah, Shakor's butt monkeys will be in good shape even if we take and hold everything up to Dal .. there is access to Amarr FW space directly from Gallente space and the Amak high-sec path is pretty much ideally situated .. only downside of that one is the lack of station next door to Amak (if I remember correctly) but its a hop-and-a-skip to Rens so 'meh'.

Changes will revitalize ninja plexing in a big way and condense fighting even more than the infini-plex change did .. FW will by and large be the poorer for it .. the whole thing reeks of CCP either lacking anything remotely resembling a vision for FW or being bent over by null interests.

And that is it from me until the blogs come 'round.

And I've heard that it will take 5 times as any plexes to take a system. This is a way that people have already adapted to the horrible station lock-out idea -- by convincing CCP that it must come with an enormous nerf to system-flipping, rather than the more gentle rebalance we might have gotten.

I often go roaming in the back waters for fights. So while 10 jumps would be at the high end it wouldn't be impossible in my current way of playing especially if as i predict minmatar basically end up taking all the systems.

You are correct that with these changes it would force most of the fighting to the frontlines where as a mostly solo pilot I can expect to get blobbed much more frequently. I'm not really thrilled with that.

As far as plenty of systems to base out of. Well if my sec status continues to drop high sec won't be an option. But there are a few non fw low sec systems I could go to that is true. I don't think there are that many though and again after minmatar take over the fw systems they will basically be the front lines with the blobs.

Yeah I am talking about how this will gut my own particular play style. I'm not trying to speak for everyone. But my point remains that if you want hardcore you can go to null sec and do that. You have that option. You want to put in big effort for big reward go to null sec. I don't mean that as a dig but as a serious recomendation. Look at goonswarm they have so much isk they are litterally paying their members to throw ships away in jita!

Meanwhile if they turn faction war into null sec lite what options will casual pvpers like me have? Where can I expect to get fequent quality pvp?

The whole idea of putting lots of effort into a computer game is not for me. I really enjoy the game and really like the pvp. I like the consequences of fights and the fact that when I lose a ship it costs me something. But I am not interested in putting allot of effort in to politics or organizing other players to achieve the ability to carebear more isk in safe areas where the enemy can't dock.

I wanted to speak for a moment about the “neutrals taking our benefits” concerns. First, let’s look at the benefits being offered. Discount clones, discount brokers fees, etc. A few extra slots for manufacturing (which many people rightfully point out isn’t very useful). What neutrals CAN’T do is obtain LP rewards, conquer plexes, fire upon faction warfare pilots without going GCC, etc.

I think it’s important to put these into context. Low sec has suffered for years now, with players almost universally demanding buffs across the board, extra incentives to live and work in a higher risk area. With the new upgrade system in place, it really means that these system rewards for FW sovereignty will be active in most systems fought over by FW pilots. It doesn’t matter who owns them, the residents will activate the benefits, and neutrals will enjoy the perks. The entire FW zone suddenly has incentives for high sec residents to enjoy low sec, with the added benefit that we’ll likely be busy enough fighting each other that piracy should decline, much like it was less of an issue during the “golden years” of FW. When FW pilots have enough WT’s to shoot, they’re much less likely to harm neutrals out of boredom.

Personally, I could care less of a neutral gets a half price clone without working for it, it’s really not a game-breaker for me or something I want to deny anyone just because they didn’t fight my war. I don’t really care if traders in lowsec pay half-price taxes and fees. I can only see this as a great thing. More activity in lowsec, whether they are neutrals or FW pilots, is universally a great thing. I think it’s important to ask ourselves whether the benefit of enhancing most of lowsec space in this manner and making it a more enticing place to live (even if you think the bonuses aren’t that great) is something we want to fight against “just cause they didn’t lift a finger to help”.

And for those of you like myself who are willing to break the law to get some killmails, you totally understand why increasing low sec activity (neutral or otherwise) is WAY more important than denying pilots outside the war some perks based on principle.

This is very disappointing. The whole time I've been thinking that you understood the big issues of this expansion, and then you post this. Very disappointing indeed.

Some good points here. First, to address X Gallentius’ concerns that the attacker will need 23/7 coverage to take a system, because the LP incentives will guarantee aggressive defense of plexes. Some players are discovering on SiSi that in the new system, there is no LP payout for defensive plexing. One of the commmunity’s greatest concerns so far has the need for elasticity in the Faction Warfare system, and incentives for the underdog.

By limiting plexing payouts to those that are taking space, there exists a reward for those that are fighting from behind that is not granted to the winning team. If one faction steamrolls the other and owns all the systems, they also lose their ability to grind plexes for isk. They gain the benefits of the upgrade systems, but they can’t farm plex LP at that point, they can only run missions or kill invaders.



Bolster Bomb is pointing out that a single blob mentality will be limited in its ability to defend against a large territory over a long period of time. With plexing, breaking up into smaller squads and spreading out to hit several at the same time is superior to having one blob move to plex’s individually, we’ve seen this plenty already in the current system, nothing’s changing there.

Lack of docking, for all its inconvenience, will do one thing for sure. The roaming gangs that attack the plexes in enemy space will be MUCH more likely to be smaller hit squads than large fleets, simply because its safer and faster to avoid the blob that everyone says will form up. FW gangs already do null sec roams for fun, and we don’t usually take a 30 man BS fleet to do it, for good reason. Lack of a place to dock and repair means that nimble fleets that can stay safe are much more appealing.

And that’s precisely what Faction Warfare is supposed to encourage, small gang warfare instead of massive blobbing. I'm not defending the docking idea as a good one, I'm simply pointing out that there could be some positive side effects from it from a combat perspective that at least merit some *patience* to see how it affects PvP before declaring it a tragedy.

While you might be right that a small gangs might be better at plexing over a large area. With the not so thought out denial of docking, Huge blobs will be effective at deny docking in systems where an enemy bases out of.

After discussing these issues, it appears that a lot of my comrades will either move to a nearby non FW system, or leave FW all together. Thus reducing the participants of FW and the people who actually live there. So while you might think this docking idea encourages small gangs, it will result in 0.0 sov warfare, where the bigger blob wins.

Isn't this expansion supposed to bring more people into the FW area? Instead it is turning it into 0.0 sov lite.

Another way I can get around these supposed changes, as opposed to just going full pie, AND benefit from the changes, is just to drop Amarr Milita, and join the Gallente Milita. I can stay where I am, Minnmatar won't be able to deny me docking rights, and continue to shoot Minns as much as I'd like.