EVE General Discussion

Instead of adding Datacores to the FW stores, why not give FW pilots something they'll actually use? New shiny ships or modules or something. Industry pilots and FW pilots don't have much, if anything, in common. I'm sure FW pilots would rather have something they can use.

If the goal is to remove passive income, it'd be better to update T2 production. It seems like that's part of the goal, so here's some ideas.

1. Change moon goo! I don't know enough about it to make any suggestions on -how- to change it, but I hear plenty of people complaining about it. Perhaps a different way to obtain the all powerful technetium?
2. Remove T2 Blueprint Originals. Setting up copy jobs for researched T2 BPOs is as passive as R&D, and it pays better. Replace them with a bunch of max-run copies at their current research level. Then, when they're used up, they're gone. Simple phase-out.
3. Move datacores into R&D Corporation LP rewards. Change all the R&D agents into distribution or some other type of agent. This makes datacores something you have to earn actively, and it makes sense with where you have to go to earn them. People who have R&D agents had to get the standings to use them somehow, so it doesn't leave anyone out of the loop. They've got at least one mission runner. It also makes a ton more sense than suddenly having datacores become part of FW.

At first blush, it might seem that the approach that they are taking is not totally foolish. Then again, NeX store items were 10 Aurum each on Singularity before Noble Exchange launched on Tranquility.

This tbh.

FW is still broken and even in the case it becomes more profitable (highly questionable imo) than other activities it won't attract the risk averse crowd.

And let's assume the DC become the most profitable LP/isk item than you still a large group who either are unaware of this or use their LP for shinies anyway.

So, fix FW first (long long long overdue in any case) before fiddling with mechanics which are not broken atm.

Research Project Management V is a rank 8 skill, and a memory/charisma skill at that, no one has mem/char mapped...it takes forever to train, and has absolutely no other use than R&D agents.

With most of the science skills level V unlocks absolutely nothing in terms of items or ships, level V is only needed for mat research on a few BPOs...but a bunch more skills are needed for that as well, skills which i don't have, and no I won't be training amarr starship engineering to V just so i can research some paladin BPOs and not have mechanical engineering V stand forever useless on my skillsheet.

5 characters with Research Project Management V, Nanite Engineering V, Mechanical Engineering V, Molecular Engineering V amounts to LOT of time and plex invested in skills and standings...and no there is nothing else they can do with those skills appart from HTFU and keep collecting datacores, except that now instead of collecting 5-6 times a year, ill collect once a year and will probabaly need a freighter. Anything less won't be worth the hassle.

CCP want to reduce the amount of profit made by research agents in hisec and reward people taking part in FW/PvP/losec and your idea is to make them more profitable. You are not even on the same page as CCP.

…and it can still be used.

That's your choice — you choose to waste your SP, and you can't really blame anyone else for that. You also chose to train those skills to those levels, and if they haven't paid themselves back handsomely by now, you've done something wrong. Now, they've given you a great platform for branching out into other money-making schemes, so what are kvetching about?

If anything your example shows why the change is needed: because the whole thing was so valuable that people did what you did, to the extent you did, and that kind of passive income generation is something that EVE is quite clearly moving away from.

I just wish they would tie the aquisition of the datacores directly to industry somehow, instead of FW.

I don't mind so much that they are moving away from passivity, but it's a bit of a shame the datacores won't be tied to the manufacturing skills involved in getting access to them. For example, you could actually trade in a manufactured good for an amount of related datacores or something like that...or trade minerals for them or something aquired through the use of industry itself.

I agree the skills themselves are not being wasted though because you need the skills to manufacture the items in many cases, and it seems that we'll still be able to collect half the current amount of datacores based on the Research Management skill.

To answer some of your points.

Data Cores will be ADDED to the FW stores, along side the existing shiney ships and modules that FW pilots can (but don't often) use.

1: Moo Goo changes are already being discussed, and quite probably will soon end up being produced by a new form of mining (Ring Mining) or possibly even via PI (although the latter is unlikely).

2: T2 originals are fine and serve as a balancing mechanism to the T2 market. People do not do copy jobs from T2 BPO's as this takes FAR longer than simply producing the item. Max ship production from your average T2 BPO is about a ship a day, hardly a detrimental factor (or a gold mine for the owner).

3: Data Cores will be available from the FW loyalty point store and continue to be available from research agents at a reduced rate. Two competing methods of obtaining them is healthy, and allows both combat and non-combat pilots to compete directly for them.

I have suggested several times in the past that when FW people would flip a system, the station owners would change after downtime, so from Caldari corporations to gallente corporations or back, this would include R&D corporations within a faction.

I also suggested that In order to redeem LP you would have to do it in these systems even though your could earn the lp the same way you always had. If you did the same thing with data cores, as they come from the factions R&D Corporations, people could earn them at the same rate they always had, they would just have to got to low sec to get them.

The only problem is stopping the FW people from pirating these industry people, and the solution to that, the higher the industrial persons standing with the corp and faction, the higher the standing hit a person would get from the faction they fought for if they blapped that indy. This also gives pirates one more thing to try to pirate in low sec.

This kind of change also could be in done in tandem with letting FW people get Data cores as well with LP.

With this sort of situation every one benefits. People travel to low sec. FW people get more rewards, and Datacore farmers still get there data cores at the same rate they had in the past.

It also achieves another one of soundwaves goals which was having non FW people take an interest in who controls what. If the gallente control all the systems certain Datacores arent being collected, and people will try to influence caldari to retake some stations so other kinds of datacores start flowing.

Lore wise it also makes sense as the empires want to encourage the capsuleers to take space from each other on there behalf, datacores from the R&D corps that work for those empires would definitely play into that game plan.

Soundwave, I get what your trying to do, but there are better compromises to achieve what your going for. Every time theres a change in this game it doesn't have to result with a whole group of people getting disenfranchised. Or at least it shouldn't. Creative gameplay development doesn't have to involve always whacking somebody in the face with a nerf bat.

First off, I don't think FW LP stores should get datacores. Research and Faction Warfare are 2 separate careers.

A couple ideas:

1. Research Agents give out missions. They just give you the system the mission is in, you must scan down the mission site. Rewards are datacores, no isk and no LP. Your choice on the datacores you get based of Agents skills.

2. Remove the research agents as Soundwave wants. Use reverse engineering to create the datacores. Want you can reverse engineer and qty gained from reverse engineering based on your science skills.