Missions & Complexes

deffo risk free, it's your choice to fly shiny instead of T1 in order to get 10m more an hr.

if you fly T1 noone would bother griefing you.

The one where people shoot at you which aside from Suicide ganking and declared wars does not happen to people in high sec.



All of which is fixed by not flying with people you don't know.



And just who said "Risk Free". I said less risk. But it IS very low , easily mitigatable risk. Concord won't help me in null sec olol.

And in a place where risk is so low, people shold not be able to make so much isk. That people are rolling around Incursions in super pimp fits is evidence of what was wrong with the system, you don't see that in low-sec or null incursions.

The outragious sense of entitlement coming from incursion farmers is the main reason why most of the rest of us have so little sympathy for you people.



Learn to read. And don't fly what you don't want to lose.

I doubt there are many of us willing to argue that the previous system of farming VGs and ignoring everything else wasn't, at least in some way, broken. A 10 or 20% decrease in payoff is fair. Assaults and HQs should be our goal. Our problem here and the reason why CCP shouldn't "stick to their guns" is that this was far more than a pay decrease. It brought a risky, group-oriented activity on par with lvl 4 incomes which absolutely shattered the incursion community. It was improperly documented and their reasoning was not explained prior to the nerf.

Now, I am curious to see what your income would be like if you gathered 10 of your friends in shiny BSes and you blitzed anomalies all day. Eve is a game that rewards groups. Even in a "higher risk" (but not really) area, you should not be able to make more than a focused group of veteran players working towards a common goal.



Thank you for the update.

You fight to hold your moons and DED plexes, don't let alliance propaganda convince you otherwise. Using the same ships and skills you still make more solo in nullsec than you would in empire.

This is like saying "man, those cops raided our favorite drug house, which shattered the crack cocaine community" lol.

As I've said in another thread, i don't mind high sec paying a small bit more than level 4s to compensate for the difficulty in getting a group organized, and I'm sure CCP will tweak things. But I'm simply responding to all the over-entitled butt hurt coming from the "Incursion community", which was nothing more than a farming community abusing ill-concieve/iterated content.





I've seen this claim before, b ut it's untrue. I don't even run incursions regularily and I knoew from the devblogs what was coming.



The same as i do right now, because of how anomalies and the bounty system works, as an individual you don't make "more" isk for yourself by adding more people to the anomalie (and if they do less dps than you, you make less isk because bounties don't scale to effort, 2 people in an anom split the bouties 50/50 even if one does 1000 dps and the other does 100 dps).



You're talking giberish. No one is saying anything like that (like that Dreadnaught guy, your comprehension is lacking, probably because of your obvious bias towards easy hi-sec isk).

We are talking about individual player income really. And dude in high sec protected from non-consensual pvp (with the exception of suicide ganks and withled reps lol) by concord should not make the same isk/hour as a player who had to join a null sec alliance (and contribute to that alliances defense of it's space) and is not protected from non-consensual pvp by concord.

Incursions should be balanced with the rest of the game. Until now, they weren't.

That's the common saying yes, but not mine. Don't complain about being griefed when you choose the activity. No one makes you do incursions.




There was a Kronos instapopped in a HQ site the other day. It just took way to much Alpha and died before logi's could get lock on him.[/quote]

None of which is the point. I said less risk. The "risk" in incursions is so minor people(like you, by your own admission) fly [/i]multi-billion isk ships[/i] in them. Some risk lol.



Fleetsof PEOPLE, and POSes that people bought, which means if the people in my allaince go to sleep out out drinking, I have no back up. CONCORD doens't go out to party lol, it's always there.

You misse dhte point. ONE GUY in a cloaky ship can shut down my ratting, you you complain about making less isk in an activitey no one can stop? Sure, people can speed em up and kill the mom, but that's not the same as stopping someone cold. The point is you just shold not have that in high sec.

Low and null incursions making supre isk, sure, but not high sec, that goes against the nature of the game.




You're wrong, again evidenced by the shinyness of the ships you fly. real risk would mean incurions would be filled with nothing but players in tech1 ships lol

No, but that's a risk someone takes... And that is what you said... take a risk.



No, but the difference is... your activity may have to stop, because of one guy. But a single griefer can wipe out an entire incursion fleet and not only stop them from making money but cost them a lot of ships.



Your alliance didn't have to take Sov of those systems, they could have stuck to the NPC systems to farm, with slightly less risk of losing resources. You and your alliance made the choice to take and upgrade your systems with your resources to make more ISK



Well if you're talking risk, why are you using a Mach and a Tengu? To maximise making money... So people buy shiny ships for incursions so that they can make more money quicker. Much as your alliances investments in Null sec they pay off but have their risks.

I don't see where your alliance taking and holding sov so you can make more money doing DED sites and Anoms is in any different light to the incursion runners investing in their ships to optimise their fleets. Your investment should be rewarded but ours shouldn't???

It has been stated, and was proven by evidence that highsec is dangerous.
Most mass destroyed was Jita in 2011 and nullsec with intel is a joke.

On top of this, only 1% of those incursion-runners were making huge ammounts of money AND the isk faucet through incursions is not that big at all.

However, vanguards were too much ISK, and it's good that they nerfed it, but it is a bit over the top if lv 4's are paying better.

Stop arguing about risk. It's not the major factor at play here. And no one cares is incursions make more than a solo 0.0 ratter.

I'm going to try to lay something out here:

Basic Solo PVE Income:
-Hi Sec Missions
-Low Sec Missions
-Null Sec Ratting

Basic Group PVE Income :
-Incursions
-Null Space Complexes
-Wormholes

You will notice that both of these lists increase in isk/h and risk as you head down them. Of course there are many other activities and individual echelons within these activities, but for the sake of this analogy just play along.

The problem is that we are comparing Incursions in risk and reward to null sec ratting. Incursions actually fill and nice little spot among the group PVE options. However, the low ends of the group activities should at least be comparable, if not equal, to the high end of the solo. Its an MMO, embrace the group.



This man has summed up our entire argument (also indicated by the thread). Perhaps incursions were making too much isk, but we want this nerf done right. It should have been a process of finding what made incursions tick and slowly draining the excess income, not a total carpet bomb of the system. Thats MMO design 101. We know CCP is capable of pulling this off right; we're not dealing with the EA/DICE death squad here.

The fundamental issue is that incursions designed for shiny t3 fleets with t2 logi min/maxed beyond belief will be terrible for anyone not in a shiny fleet. Incursions designed for t1 battleships/battlecruisers with a mix of meta and t2 modules will be farmed mercilessly by the former group.

So why don't we have gate requirements seperating the two? Make one set of incursion sites for t1 boats and balanced to give players trying to move to something more social than level 4s about the same pay as level 4s with an average pub fleet, and about 50% better than level 4s with a min/maxed fleet.The t1 logi will put a natural damper on the shininess of modules put into these fleets.

Then design the 'above t1' (including faction/t2/t3) incursion sites for ridiculously shiny fleets. Balance them around high pay (120-150 mil an hour) and design them to occasionally destroy ships -- via ECM directed at logi, high focused fire alpha, what have you. This will, again, put a damper on the max income as there will be a disinclination to put a 3bil ship on the line.

Keeping one set of sites for both, well, I don't see it working.