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So why is CCP supporting the Burn Jita event?

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Kricsus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#301 - 2012-05-03 00:34:30 UTC
Only one thing to say about this post... MOAR TEARS!!! You think your discouraging anyone with this post? All you've done is fuel the flames and make people who were on the fence about this situation want to participate so they can taste some of those sweet sweet tears. =)
Stephanie MacKenzie
Farsight Enterprises LLC
#302 - 2012-05-03 00:56:35 UTC
Adalun Dey wrote:
As an industrial player I don't want to get ganked, but I definitely want there to be the potential of getting ganked. And this event certainly shows just that.

If anything Burn Jita was a perfect example of what a sandbox is all about. Players creating an event without some scripted system providing it to them. I hope it'll encourage more alliances to follow in its footsteps.


^^^ This.

On top of that, since I'm just returning to the game after a long break, I've been sticking to high sec so I don't lose lots of money figuring out what I'm doing again. It was fun to climb into a cheetah and get as close to the booms as I could without de-cloaking and getting killed, and it was something I hadn't seen before Flew in, looked around, made snarky comments in local, and went back to doing other stuff. No biggie. Besides which, not attempting to dock at Jita 4 for a weekend was all you had to do to avoid losses.

Seriously, part of playing a multi-player game is having to react to what the other players are doing. How this is a mystery or a problem to anyone is beyond me.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#303 - 2012-05-03 01:05:43 UTC
It's actually fairly reasonable. The economy was getting stale, and, besides the inflation, nothing really changes.

The goon solution increases demand due to destruction of formerly available vessels, as well as diminish supply. Combine these two and it creates a potent mixture for a brand spanking new economy. Eventually it will cool down, and the market will be ripe for the picking once more, and new industrialists will step up to the plate, as well as new traders.

That is much better than the alternative. And more fun.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Mephrista
The Shadows In The Warp
#304 - 2012-05-03 01:05:46 UTC
Your Rant:

"Honestly I think those who chose the carebear gameplay style are already punished enough. They are essentially blocked out of all the fun gameplay elements. They cannot have access to best loot, they cannot mine the best ore, they cannot roam the world of eve without getting blown up as soon as they step out of their little fenced pen. But they are not choked enough... Lets tighten the noose some more, right?! Wrong.... Press this group of people too hard, and you got no one to grief anymore. No one to block. No one to make cry..."

My Response:

It is not that they "cannot" have access to the best loot or that they "cannot" mine the best ore... it is that they "choose" to. EVE is about choices so instead of crying... fight back.
Flargen Dingle
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#305 - 2012-05-03 01:12:39 UTC
Did anybody say "sandbox" yet?
Kardel Taan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#306 - 2012-05-03 01:12:53 UTC
I think it's funny that OP is complaining about the burn Jita event. After all, Jita is one system. Anyone could have gone anywhere else. Also, it's not like no one had any warning, when logging into the game, there was this huge warning on the front page that there was an incursion in Jita. Seriously, no one had to go in there. There are plenty of other systems with good trading value.
I also disagree with the idea that the carebear style of play is 'hard enough' as it was stated. Sure, we'll never mine Arkanor or Bistiot, but we're also not losing ships every day either. And I make some pretty good money mining Kernite. I agree with Mephrista, it's all about choices. Do you play it safe and make less money, or take the dangerous road to make billions?
Astrud Jarvinen
Happy Fun Adventure Club
#307 - 2012-05-03 01:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrud Jarvinen
Montevius Williams wrote:
Burn Jita, hulkageddon and other events are the reason why EVE is the best MMO on the market. You cant do anyting close to this in other MMO's (Burn Stormwind?).

Kazzak does Stormwind

Of course, Blizzard banned people and patched the game so it couldn't happen again. But in the comments you'll see plenty of people saying how great it was that it was possible.

And it's great that it's possible in EVE and supported.
Azver Deroven
Pitch Black.
#308 - 2012-05-03 01:45:34 UTC
My only concern is the reports where CONCORD was so lagged it couldnt act properly, and this is merely heresay. I decided to minimize my losses and took my arse to other areas of space.

If that didnt happen and soon as you opened fire concord was on you, jamming you down, I've no beef with this.

If such thing DID happen, anyone who was associated with the bug should receive penalty of sorts, I've no idea how to even identify them so I wouldnt know what to do with it.


If it was legit it was completely brilliant example of EVE's player empowerment - Play the game your way. If it wasn't, something needs to be done and if nothing else the heresay squashed.

My 2 cents anyway.

DISCLAIMER: My views do not represent those of my alliance, my corporation or myself. Yes, I can even confuse myself from time to time.
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc
#309 - 2012-05-03 02:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Brom MkLeith
Action Danger wrote:
Kurai Kihaku wrote:




No.

You are completely misunderstanding the whole point of this.


And care bears in highsec are ******* over the game. CCP knows this. What is interesting is if they did anything about it, it would dramatically change the game to where it is no longer a sandbox. Highsec Carebears have slowly patch after patch changed the game because they dont like that they are not 100 percent safe somewhere. Its ******* space. It is the style of the game. They tell you this constantly.

Also learn the difference between them supporting the event and allowing it. They allow it because the mechanic is there and everything is working as intended.


"Patch after patch" things have been changed to make high sec safe????? LOL Lemme see..... buffing hybrids so that a 12mil Catalyst can pop ANY Mackinaw.... yeah that patch certainly helped make High Sec safe. For the PLEX selling gankers.

Let's make it so that you are considered an aggressor if someone shoots AT you and you can't switch ships for something that can fight out of your Orca. This way, active, at the keys miners can't even protect themselves. Yeah... that makes high sec safer..... for the ganker whose mommy buys his PLEX.

You want massive tears, give us a T2 Salvager that lets a 12mil industrial destroyer, take apart a 200mil Battleship in 15 seconds. Then see who shouts "It's a sandbox! F-ing deal with it!"

I can't wait for Inferno to go into full swing. Criminals running the streets in their orange jumpsuits SHOULD attract the attention of every cop or vigilante who wants to kick their teeth in. The current safety net provided for the douchebag is what makes high sec too safe.

My stand is, as always, don't make high sec 100% safe....... for anyone. Simply buff the PG and CPU of T2 industrial ships so that they can fit a decent tank as befits their T2 nature while still being able to do their job. That way, you can still be ganked but someone has to really need a reason to do so not just because it's funny and they can act like they're cool.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#310 - 2012-05-03 02:23:47 UTC
"sandbox"

"because they can"

"HTFU"

am I missing anything?

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#311 - 2012-05-03 02:49:03 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
For people who think that Jita is the only trade hub in the game, the game has come to a crashing hault.
For those who rarely go to Jita or go to the other trade hubs, very little has changed.
It's a sandbox, adapt or die.


This is why I play eve, it's an awesome universe that has epic amounts of drama. People just need to learn that you can't play it solo, no matter how much you think you are.


For those who live in WHs... did something happen in kspace? ;p
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#312 - 2012-05-03 02:58:49 UTC
ITT: People who do not understand the sandbox complaining about people that do.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#313 - 2012-05-03 03:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alxea
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
Just want to understand the logic behind the game company taking such a stance.

Piracy, scamming, and griefing, all that I understand. But what is happenign with the "Burn Jita" event is completely different.

I want to know why CCP feels that even thought I pay my $15/mo just like the members of the GF they can do whatever they want, and I cannot. (Example: Going to Jita when GF feels I shouldn't.)

I think that EVE's biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness. It has become a little too much like RL. In ALL mmos, there is nothing a powerful corp, or a guild can do to prevent other people from playing the game any way they like. They may have the best items/gear... the most friends... the most influence.... but there is absolutely nothing allowing the more powerful players to interfere with, or hinder in anyway the game-play of others.

I can directly compare what is happening in EVE to a cable company. Let's say thousands of people are watching TV and their favorite channel gets blocked.

Suddenly a malignant individual decides to hack into the cable network, and blocks this channel. Off course at this point the cable company would try to do whatever they can to track down and deal with this individual.

But what's happening in EVE is more like, the cable company saying "Hmm.. This is interesting... all these people..They are so boring, laying on their couch watching movies.. Let' add a little something into their lives. Let's make them cry and scream with anger because they lack in diversity of emotions. Lets conduct a social experiment of sorts and let this hacker continue what he is doing.... "

Really, I think CCP is giving GF a little too much credit, allowing them to be the force of nature in EVE. The Yang that comes with the Yin, the spoon of tar in the barrel of honey, the black stripe in a pattern of white and black stripes... Well you get the point.

If CCP feels we need a little "spice" in our life, then why not alter those Sansha invasions to go directly into Jita or Amarr, or Rens or whatever... or program NPC pirates to go after mining ships at random times. Who the hell appointed GF to decide when the carebears have been having a too calm a life and need to be "shaken up a bit"?

Honestly I think those who chose the carebear gameplay style are already punished enough. They are essentially blocked out of all the fun gameplay elements. They cannot have access to best loot, they cannot mine the best ore, they cannot roam the world of eve without getting blown up as soon as they step out of their little fenced pen. But they are not choked enough... Lets tighten the noose some more, right?! Wrong.... Press this group of people too hard, and you got no one to grief anymore. No one to block. No one to make cry...

In a sense, this whole thing reminds me of our society, the extreme respect and admiration for professions such as doctors or lawyers and the complete lack of that same respect for those in lower professions. But wait.... We need these people! If no one was flipping burgers, no one was cleaning out the garbage, etc, etc... What kind of the world would be be living in?

Carebears fill an essential role in EVE. Without them, EVE would be missing a lot of what makes it great.

I believe that the best game, is one where people can choose to play any way they like. If you want to be a boring carebear, be a boring carebear. If you want to be a vicious pirate, be one. But the two should not be mixed forcefully because that ruins the gameplay experience for those that do not want to PvP. (there's lowsec and 0.0 for that!) Don't these people also pay the $15/mo fee? And if they do, why is it that they don't deserve to play EVE any way they like without being interrupted?


Quote:


Lead game designer Kristoffer Touborg tells Eurogamer that player-driven events such as Burn Jita are what make Eve Online different from other games.

"We want people to be able to do this. If Goonswarm want to do it, we want them to do it and we want them to have a great time doing it," Lander added. "The worst thing we could do is to stop it happening. It would be appalling for the game. It would be against everything we stand for."


And what the hell do you stand for Kristof? People making other people's life miserable?

Quote:
"The people they're going to hurt now are people who have quite a lot of security," he said. "There's not a lot of turnaround on ships and goods in Empire. I think it might be healthy if we lose a lot of this industrial power, if they have to go back and save up for their ships again and be a part of the cycle of life everyone else is a part of."


You "think".... I "think" it would be "healthy" for EVE if the Goons lost a lot of their power, but they are losing nothing aside from their ships an a small part of their wealth, while the Carebears are losing everything.


I didn't bother to read all of this but, this has always been a part of the game! WTF are you from WoW or something and expect the same hold your hand crap in EvE? Eve is not WoW, eve is the darkest space game ever created. Always has been since 2003. Nothing has changed. They supported it because it was always allowable! Have you been living under a rock?! Roll I have murdered hundreds of other pod pilots and I get away with it all the time. Can't wait for inferno because thats when I will start again. Pirate
Matthew Odunen
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#314 - 2012-05-03 03:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthew Odunen
its funny becuse there just biteing them selfs in the ass.


blow up the carebares = ind corps
less ind corps = less people minning
less people minning = things cost you more!

then the market go's to ****
then no one can ever get in to pvp becuse they cant pay for it.
leave the carebears alone and they can fix the market
why be a miner if when you get a hulk some ones going to you "for fun"
at this rate you will have to buy plex to play the game or make your own gear.

"and just so you know why ccp is working so hard to fix eve's market is becuse if they dont the dust market will go to **** too as soon as its out."



"Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
its ture
miners have to deal with more then people that pvp
they cant fight back
Loose End
The Big Bambu
#315 - 2012-05-03 04:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Loose End
In my heart I'm a carebear and always will be..but the day CCP folds up it's testicles and becomes WoW either by going soft on the players or by dumbing stuff down ...that's the day this Carebear goes too. SimCity and Civilization still hold special places in my heart and I can go back.
Who cares what happens in Jita? Let it burn. Let it be the center of conflict for all time to come. And why is center coming up as incorrect on my spell checker here? huh?...huh? huh?..how come? And more pressing issues like....I'm almost out of coffee here.
What was the topic again?..oh yeah...
This guy isn't a carebear...he's just a freakin' crybaby...CareBears have enough problems without adopting the CryBaby's too


On a side note...
Hulks get expensive
Minerals get scarcer
Minerals get expensive
Minerals get valuable
Minerals get mined by people who can now afford to pay for Hulks because the price of 'wtfever' has gone to 'wtfhowmuch?' price.

It all works out. Now go find something to kill...
davidbrin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#316 - 2012-05-03 04:42:50 UTC
While I do understand that the game is designed to allow players to do such things as Hulkageddon etc., what I cannot understand is why there isn't a normal response. By this I mean that in any country, empire, republic, etc. if there were so much civil strife and dissent, especially of an illegal kind then there would be a much stronger response from the government, emperor, etc. The Caldari Navy should, if this were indeed supposed to follow a real life/sandbox type of structure, be massively increasing its presence to the point where the gankers would die before they could do anything. Rather, there is a conspicuous lack of responce by the NPC government which makes no sense.
If the goons are strong enough to defeat the entire Caldari Navy plus Concord and all the players that I'm sure are fighting back, then why don't they just unseat the Caldari and claim that space and all stations etc. for their own?
In addition, Concord should place the entire corp/alliance in the same boat as the Guristas etc. and just make them free to target for everyone.
Finally, Concord/the Navy should, if this were indeed supposed to follow realistic structure, be attacking the goon systems and stations and taking the fight to them.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#317 - 2012-05-03 04:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
"sandbox"





Quote:
We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.


So its NOT a sandbox and IS a linear universe is what youre saying. Good to know. Im out. Sandbox is what I came to play, not Highsec is the starting area 0.0 is endgame.

FAIL

In before "can we sue for false advertising (lol insane internet laywering is funny)"

Matthew Odunen wrote:
its funny becuse there just biteing them selfs in the ass.


blow up the carebares = ind corps
less ind corps = less people minning
less people minning = things cost you more!

then the market go's to ****
then no one can ever get in to pvp becuse they cant pay for it.
leave the carebears alone and they can fix the market
why be a miner if when you get a hulk some ones going to you "for fun"
at this rate you will have to buy plex to play the game or make your own gear.

"and just so you know why ccp is working so hard to fix eve's market is becuse if they dont the dust market will go to **** too as soon as its out."



"Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
its ture
miners have to deal with more then people that pvp
they cant fight back

Quote:

In my heart I'm a carebear and always will be..but the day CCP folds up it's ********* and becomes WoW either by going soft on the players or by dumbing stuff down ...that's the day this Carebear goes too. SimCity and Civilization still hold special places in my heart and I can go back.
Who cares what happens in Jita? Let it burn. Let it be the center of conflict for all time to come. And why is center coming up as incorrect on my spell checker here? huh?...huh? huh?..how come? And more pressing issues like....I'm almost out of coffee here.
What was the topic again?..oh yeah...
This guy isn't a carebear...he's just a freakin' crybaby...CareBears have enough problems without adopting the CryBaby's too


On a side note...
Hulks get expensive
Minerals get scarcer
Minerals get expensive
Minerals get valuable
Minerals get mined by people who can now afford to pay for Hulks because the price of 'wtfever' has gone to 'wtfhowmuch?' price.

It all works out. Now go find something to kill...

Its getting so much worse when they force T2 production through FW lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

W33b3l
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2012-05-03 05:16:54 UTC
EVE is a MMO, it is not your run of the mill offline console game.

If it weren't for random stupid crap like this happening, eve would be nothing more then chat windows and spreadsheets with a cool looking ship to look at in the middle. Hell its almost to that point even with burn jita and hulkageddon going on.

EVE its self is a REALLY boring game to play. Sometimes PVE will make you crap yourself, like the first time you learn about delayed spawns on gas sites in a wormhole, but that doesn't happen very often. Its not until you introduce the player element that it gets really fun.

Its your job to learn a way around the ganking in jita, to anticipate what other players are doing or what they are going to do. If all you have to do is set autopilot and go watch TV, whats the point? The biggest thing that some players dont understand, and this is also what CCP preaches, is that its not about the game, its about the people playing the game. Its not about running a quest and getting a shiny sword that everyone else has, its about the interaction between players that takes place.

Its all part of the "EVE is Real" mumbo jumbo. Lets say your sitting in lowsec. The players that go "hey theres a cruiser lets kill it" are the ones who die. The people that think about the fact that this could be a highly tanked bait ship with tackle that has 6 friends waiting to log in are the ones that make a name for themselves. Granted, everyone falls for tricks now and then, even me it happens. Thats how you learn.

I agree that the Goons really need a comparably strong alliance to put them in check and help balance some power since one group having soo much pull can get bland, but pulling the crap that they pull is exactly what will make that happen eventually.

Stop thinking about eve as a point a to point b game, and start thinking of it as a klausterfukken of random people put in a large room that are then supplied guns and booze. If you cant do that you wont be playing long.

Long story short... EVE is a game of human interaction that just happens to be done with spaceships, its not just a spaceship game.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#319 - 2012-05-03 05:18:35 UTC
I would imagine they supported it because it was featured in a bunch of publications like PC Gamer and Eurogamer and even a French newspaper. Imagine that, a corporation liking free publicity Shocked

.
4IN1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#320 - 2012-05-03 07:20:48 UTC
I'd say that 70%of people using Jita as a trade hub are largely unaffected given they have brain, and the fact that the goons only camp at one or two gate, or the fact that there is plenty of instant warp point just outside of 4-4.Twisted

CCP: Ambition but rubbish