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So why is CCP supporting the Burn Jita event?

First post First post
Author
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#261 - 2012-04-30 22:05:18 UTC
I spend 15/mo just like you, but I can't go and blow you and everyone else in Jita up. Without losing my ship.

It's completely unfair that you can do what ever you like, but I can't.

Pirate
::seewutidid::
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#262 - 2012-04-30 23:11:58 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
jason hill wrote:
dear ccp
can you please bloody roll the game back to 2003 when we only had 8000 players on average playing as we never had a tenth of the amount of bloody moans on the forums as we bloody do now .Evil ffs its a sodding sandbox just bloody live with it


you dont like then thats your problem .....live with it . goons are not the 1st to do this ...and they wont be the last . Roll


Evesearch disagrees with your post.




then how far did you go back ! all the way back to 2003 when a CVA contingent attacked empire and out tanked concord and ended up getting a weeks ban ..... i bet not .... admittedly it wasnt on the scale that goonswarm have done .... but this is not the point .


were you around when the saddest event in eve occoured ... two stupid idiots getting married ingame ...... untill M0o decide to **** on thier parade ! no ...i bet you werent . !

so dont give me the "computer says no" bollox mate cos it happened ...and i dont post bollox when i know crap has happend in eve .

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#263 - 2012-05-01 01:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
jason hill wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
jason hill wrote:
dear ccp
can you please bloody roll the game back to 2003 when we only had 8000 players on average playing as we never had a tenth of the amount of bloody moans on the forums as we bloody do now .Evil ffs its a sodding sandbox just bloody live with it


you dont like then thats your problem .....live with it . goons are not the 1st to do this ...and they wont be the last . Roll


Evesearch disagrees with your post.




then how far did you go back ! all the way back to 2003 when a CVA contingent attacked empire and out tanked concord and ended up getting a weeks ban ..... i bet not .... admittedly it wasnt on the scale that goonswarm have done .... but this is not the point .


were you around when the saddest event in eve occoured ... two stupid idiots getting married ingame ...... untill M0o decide to **** on thier parade ! no ...i bet you werent . !

so dont give me the "computer says no" bollox mate cos it happened ...and i dont post bollox when i know crap has happend in eve .



Its the bitching and moaning that I am saying did happen, and you are currently contributing. Thanks for your input.

Quote:
There are many who think he was wronged.


Ironically, he says he is ok with it, and then in the same speech says he was thrown under the bus. No wonder people are confused about it.

Quote:
Where/when did Mittani say anything? I havent seen him since "the return"


"News" article linked on the forums.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#264 - 2012-05-01 02:57:33 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:


And no, CCP didn't put up any warning about Jitageddon when I logged in. Not that it would have made any difference since my only purpose in logging in at the weekend was to buzz around in a throw-away frigate looting Goon wrecks. Big smile


I saw a travel advisory when I logged in. Granted, it was one of those 'one-time-only' advertisements (which, now that I consider it, isn't really the best way to transmit a warning like that), but still....

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Akai Kvaesir
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
#265 - 2012-05-01 03:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Akai Kvaesir
Xython wrote:
A few reasons why they support it.

1. EVE is a Sandbox. That means there is no official rule requiring people to play nice or even be civil to each other. CCP has upheld this belief through thick and thin, albeit with some recent missteps (the 180 on the Boomarang tactic, for example). Simply put, they don't really "support" it per say, they support the rule framework and the culture of the Sandbox that allows us to do it if we want.

2. EVE is unique amongst the MMOs because it is a Sandbox. It is literally it's biggest selling point. No other MMO comes even close to offering what EVE offers -- and stories like this are perfect examples that CCP can point to and go "You can't get that experience in WOW."

3. The EVE Economy is absolutely ******. Years of RMT, of Botting, of "free" minerals have done an absolute number on the economy. While CCP would never directly intervene, they certainly welcome player self correction. Goons attacked the Gallente Ice fields not because it would **** off highsec kids -- well, not entirely so -- but because our logistics guys looked at the economy as a whole and realized that the entire economy is based on a few hundred people cheating using ice bot accounts. That's ****** up, and you don't have to be a Goon to agree. Ice needs to be moved to lowsec or even Nullsec, and moved fast.

4. The risk/reward balance between Highsec and Nullsec is even more ******. Hulkageddon, the Ice Interdiction, Burn Jita, these are all symptoms of a bigger disease -- the death of the PVP Ecosystem in Nullsec. This is going to be hard for some Highsec players to understand, but there are Nullsec players who do enjoy Mining, Crafting, and other Logistics roles. Hell, The Mittani originally was a miner. The problem is, with botters and other cheaters, as well as the flood of "Nullsec Minerals" coming from other sources (Drone Poo, Refining, etc) there was literally no reason to ever mine in Nullsec. It just didn't make any sense at all in comparison to mining in Highsec, even with the minerals being slightly less valuable.

5. EVE is, at it's heart, a PVP game. Everything in EVE is a zero sum game, save some Isk Faucets that CCP are desperately trying to plug. Everything you do in EVE is either working with (in temporary partnership) or working against other players. Crafting, Mining, Market Shinanigans, even if you never fit a gun to your ship, you are PVPing.

7. Highsec players feel they are too safe. Simply put, there are those out there who read the warnings and thought that they were bunk, because Jita's a "safe" system. They were wrong. If you want to be safe in EVE -- fit a tank. Get a friend to fly a combat ship or a logi ship with shield reps to keep you safe. Don't just think you can streak naked across the Jita sky carrying a huge sack of money and holding a sign saying "Bite me, Goonies" and not expect to be mugged.

8. If you fell prey to the Goons in Burn Jita, you deserved it. CCP (and Goons!) literally did everything they could to warn people not to fly big ships in Jita. We announced it a month ahead of time. There were hundreds of threads premptively complaining about it before we even began. And CCP put a warning up on the freaking login screen, which bent the spirit of the Sandbox. Simply put, if you did get ganked, you had no excuse. EVE is a multiplayer game, and ignoring the entirety of the playerbase outside of spreadsheets is not the spirit of any MMO.


I honestly never thought the day would come when I would agree with a Goon... but here it is, and I couldn't agree more.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm agreeing with you AS A PUBBIE. Not everyone in Empire is a scaredbear pubbie...

Frogblast the Vent Core! When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#266 - 2012-05-01 03:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
Piracy, scamming, and griefing, all that I understand. But what is happenign with the "Burn Jita" event is completely different.



Disagree. This event is exactly the same as any scam or piracy...

In point of fact, Jita itself is a sandbox creation; CCP did not declare Jita the place for trade - the players did. Tomorrow the players could change their mind. CCP for the more part has been neutral in this.. they love to see sandbox activity..in all it's forms.

Your 15 dollars is paid to take part in the experiment.

I'm not a fan of having my activities disrupted.. but I am not blaming CCP for allowing it in their sandbox.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

EVE Stig
Doomheim
#267 - 2012-05-01 04:22:40 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
True, so...INFORM THEM!!


Smile

The definition that CCP, and indeed the rest of the gaming industry, uses for Player vs. Player has been spelled out many times even in this very thread. Griefing has been covered as well.

Unfortunately, that doesn't stop people from sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting "No, I'm right and everyone else is wrong".

Not criticizing your post in any way, it was good.


Uh no, sitting in certain spots in WoW and pvping ppl is considered griefing.
Its very specific in that game.

In here, its very vague or rater its enforced in a very vague manner.
IF this were enforced LIKE WoW, then yes, BJ would have gotten ppl temp banned.

Thats why I asked the rule here.
I felt like that guy from Venture Brothers when I was writing that... the one that is really tall and yells "IGNORE ME!!!"

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!

Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#268 - 2012-05-01 04:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
Jita, the new yulai!
EVE Stig
Doomheim
#269 - 2012-05-01 04:24:49 UTC  |  Edited by: EVE Stig
Cipher Jones wrote:


"News" article linked on the forums.


um.. link? lol

I havent been to Jita in years but yeah ppl do

Barbara Nichole wrote:
Quote:
Piracy, scamming, and griefing, all that I understand. But what is happenign with the "Burn Jita" event is completely different.



Disagree. This event is exactly the same as any scam or piracy...

In point of fact, Jita itself is a sandbox creation; CCP did not declare Jita the place for trade - the players did. Tomorrow the players could change their mind. CCP for the more part has been neutral in this.. they love to see sandbox activity..in all it's forms.

Your 15 dollars is paid to take part in the experiment.

I'm not a fan of having my activities disrupted.. but I am not blaming CCP for allowing it in their sandbox.


ya, dont like it? take yer $15 elsewhere

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!

Postrem Inkunen
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#270 - 2012-05-01 04:32:02 UTC
Hai, I'm a highsec pubbie, and I think burn jita is bloody brilliant. Things like this are what attracted me to EvE in the first place.

No, I didn't get ganked because I pay attention and am not ********. Yay!

Nefarious space-villians, please resume being nefarious.
Francisco Bizzaro
#271 - 2012-05-01 06:53:11 UTC
EVE Stig wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
True, so...INFORM THEM!!


Smile

The definition that CCP, and indeed the rest of the gaming industry, uses for Player vs. Player has been spelled out many times even in this very thread. Griefing has been covered as well.

Unfortunately, that doesn't stop people from sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting "No, I'm right and everyone else is wrong".

Not criticizing your post in any way, it was good.


Uh no, sitting in certain spots in WoW and pvping ppl is considered griefing.
Its very specific in that game.

In here, its very vague or rater its enforced in a very vague manner.
IF this were enforced LIKE WoW, then yes, BJ would have gotten ppl temp banned.

PVP is easy to define in that game because they have a boolean flag which defines it: Flag True? PVP.

For whatever reason, people seem to believe that definition must carry over to this and every other game. It doesn't, and it makes no sense to talk about "PVE" or "PVP" activities here. The Eve definition of PVP is not vague - it is irrelevant.

Eve defines a set of game mechanics. Within those mechanics you can do stuff. It's an MMO, so a lot of that stuff involves interacting with other players. And one means of interacting is with bullets.

By providing a world and a set of game mechanics, CCP didn't create "PVP" or "PVE" activities. The players did, by exploring the limits of those mechanics. This is what is meant by a sandbox, and it is fundamentally different from what happens in WoW.
ISD LoneLynx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2012-05-01 08:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LoneLynx
Minor deletions and fixing posts where I had found 'workarounds' of the profanity filter.

This thread is definitely volatile, but there's an actual discussion going on here, so I will not lock it... for now.

Keep your minds clear and your posts free of personal attacks.

ISD LoneLynx Lieutenant Support Team and Resources [STAR] Interstellar Services Department

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#273 - 2012-05-01 09:33:49 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:


But what if I simply DONT FEEL LIKE IT? I gotta work during most of all those hours you are in Jita. And that one hour that I do have time to log in to haul some goods, I am being blocked. Obviously, I am not happy to find out that someone with too much free time and money has the power to prevent me from playing my favourite game the way I want to play it. In my opinion, the only entity with the ability to do this should be the devs.


What I cannot understand though, is why is it that CCP and so many others who play EVE refuse to acknowlege that some people simply do not want to PvP, and will continue refusing to do so, no matter how much you push at them.

There are those that refuse to PvP because they simply do not have the time for these things. PvP requires a hefty time investment and lots of dedication. You need to buy all necessary items on the market, then you need to fly your ship to the place where the fight wil take place just to get it blown up and be forced to start the whole tedious process over again. All for a few seconds of excitement, and hours of grinding to make the isk back required to purchase a replacement ship and all items required. I happen to be one of those that find their satisfaction in other things, such as mining rocks while watching TV or modifying orders on the market during evenings before going to sleep. Am I suddenly not allowed to do so becuase some maniac out there in control of a large virtual corporation with too much free time thinks I should change my activities to PvP?


I can quit in anger... But why? The maniac would then be very sad becuase he would have no one to push anymore.. The problem is that eventually it's ought to happen. I may decide that the satisfaction I get from EVE online is no longer worth the time/monetary investment due to certain rescent changes, and then the maniac in control of a large and powerful virtual corp can sit there playing with himself... Roll But wait, that sounds like I am planning to quit, which I most certainly dont intend to do until the option of "carebearing" is completely and totally taken away from me.


I you dont want to PvP then youre in the wrong game mate. EVE makes it very clear from the beginning that you can do anything you want, which also logically implies you have to deal with everyone else being able to do what they want as well, thats what CCP envisioned for their game and thats how they run it. Your post smacks of an 'I dont like it so change it' mentality which you'll find the majority of players in eve have absolutely no time for.

Im not saying you are a bad person for playing the way you do but you need to accept that you are the only one who can defend how you choose to do things, CCP wont do it for you and whining about it just makes you look stupid.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Miss Yanumano
Cadence Industrial Syndicate
#274 - 2012-05-01 10:47:54 UTC
So many people, living under the false notion that high sec, is safe.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#275 - 2012-05-01 12:03:48 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:

If no one was flipping burgers, ..... What kind of the world would be be living in?


A hell of a lot healthier one?




Other than that, could you please stop posting this kind of drivel? Please? You are giving us carebears really bad rep.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#276 - 2012-05-01 13:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
The way you, and many others put it, high sec sounds like something trivial, added as an afterthought.

You do know, right, that Security Status of systems and pilots, aggression mechanics (and Hi/Low/Null) were added? That "in the beginning" there was only mining and shooting each other? There may have been belt rats (I'm pretty sure there were - but not 100% - older players will have to correct me on that if I'm wrong).

But there was *no* "hi-sec".

CCP have added them over the years to accommodate a larger player base - but CCP is fully aware that other players *CAN* block you from doing x, y or z activity and have actually coded that specifically into the game.

CCP *added* an 11% corp tax to the NPC corps to encourage players to not congregate there, but instead encourage those who it bothered, to leave those corps and either join existing corps, or form their own (and I would LOVE to see the numbers on that, as I don't believe it produced the intended results...)

CCP recently buffed Destroyers (pretty much across the board), even though those same ships are *VERY* popular with "gankers" because of the high return on DPS/ISK spent - were you aware of that?

So really, CCP is fully aware of the game mechanics, and have pretty much specifically made a game, wherein we can be interfered with, or interfere with others. In effect saying to each and every player (not specifically saying, but rather saying with the actual structure of the game):

"Yes, this *is* a pvp game, as almost *every* activity you engage in, can be interrupted by another player, or players".

That is what the game is designed for.
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
There are those that refuse to PvP because they simply do not have the time for these things. PvP requires a hefty time investment and lots of dedication. You need to buy all necessary items on the market, then you need to fly your ship to the place where the fight wil take place just to get it blown up and be forced to start the whole tedious process over again. All for a few seconds of excitement, and hours of grinding to make the isk back required to purchase a replacement ship and all items required. I happen to be one of those that find their satisfaction in other things, such as mining rocks while watching TV or modifying orders on the market during evenings before going to sleep. Am I suddenly not allowed to do so becuase some maniac out there in control of a large virtual corporation with too much free time thinks I should change my activities to PvP?



Mining is an activity taken place outside of stations and so is therefore an activity that *can* be interrupted and interfered with by other players, by design. There are steps you can take to minimize the overall risk of actually having to confront another player (or be confronted by) - but it *cannot* be conducted purely "solo" (in the sense that no one *can* bother you) because of the mechanics that CCP have put in place, on purpose.

Let me ask you this, when you modify an order, why do you do that? I imagine you do that to place your (buy or sell) orders in a more positive position to be filled. But you do realize that while doing so, your interfering with another players ability to have *his/her* orders in that same position?

You're actually engaging in PvP here (player conflict within the structure of the game sandbox walls). It may *not* be all "blasters and lazors" - but it *is* pvp in the modern sense of the word.


Welcome to Eve!
Big smile

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#277 - 2012-05-01 13:43:13 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
The way you, and many others put it, high sec sounds like something trivial, added as an afterthought.

You do know, right, that Security Status of systems and pilots, aggression mechanics (and Hi/Low/Null) were added? That "in the beginning" there was only mining and shooting each other? There may have been belt rats (I'm pretty sure there were - but not 100% - older players will have to correct me on that if I'm wrong).

But there was *no* "hi-sec".


FWIW: I still have some screenshots of my earliest days in eve. The first SS in space (munching roids in my noob ship in Duripant Bear) is from 1st August 2003. In that shot there is a row which says "Security Level > 1.0" in the upper left hand corner of the screen. From a couple of months later I have several screenshots of systems with sec between 0.9 and 0.0. So three months after launch there were system sec statuses. But I don't have any idea if they were added during those three months or if they were there from the beginning.

Asuri Kinnes wrote:
So really, CCP is fully aware of the game mechanics, and have pretty much specifically made a game, wherein we can be interfered with, or interfere with others. In effect saying to each and every player (not specifically saying, but rather saying with the actual structure of the game):

"Yes, this *is* a pvp game, as almost *every* activity you engage in, can be interrupted by another player, or players".

That is what the game is designed for.


Pretty much spot on, good description of eve.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Twulf
Thunder Clap Industry
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres.
#278 - 2012-05-01 13:45:45 UTC
Davin Nix wrote:
Twulf wrote:


If its a Sandbox as you claim then the OP should be able to play the game as they want. That is what a Sandbox is.

What we have in EVE is a Sandbox that is controlled by large alliances and corporations. That is not a Sandbox as a few decide how the rest should play but I do not expect idiots like you to understand logic and common sense.


A single player sandbox should of course operate in the way you suggest.
However, eve is a massively multiplayer online sandbox. And the very mechanics which allow the formation of corporations and alliances encourage such behaviour.
The fight for control of resources necessitates the formation of large alliances and corporations as simple escalation. This is a survival tactic. Just because every once in a while a large alliance uses the power they have to mount a campaign such as burn jita is not making the game unfair as such. It is in fact a clever move to raise prices and undoubtedly some people are making vast amounts of isk out of it.

to be successful in eve you cannot play alone. If you'd prefer this, go play X3 or some other single player space sim
Dav


Stop saying EVE is a Sandbox than. A sandbox supports every type of gamer including solo players, if the game Mechanics does not support solo play then it cannot be a sandbox because in a Sandbox a player decided what to do, when to do it and how to do it and if they choose solo then that should be an option. In EvE that is not an option, hense its NOT a sandbox, so stop with this crap about being a Sandbox.

Per your own logic EVE is not a sandbox because solo play is not an option due to game mechanics.

I happened to not play the game solo and enjoy it but to tell others that their game play is wrong because they want to play solo, than EVE cannot be a Sandbox.

I think you Vet EVE players should learn what a Sandbox is before you keep using it over and over again and clearly do not understand what a Sandbox is.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#279 - 2012-05-01 13:59:51 UTC
Twulf wrote:
Davin Nix wrote:
Twulf wrote:


If its a Sandbox as you claim then the OP should be able to play the game as they want. That is what a Sandbox is.

What we have in EVE is a Sandbox that is controlled by large alliances and corporations. That is not a Sandbox as a few decide how the rest should play but I do not expect idiots like you to understand logic and common sense.


A single player sandbox should of course operate in the way you suggest.
However, eve is a massively multiplayer online sandbox. And the very mechanics which allow the formation of corporations and alliances encourage such behaviour.
The fight for control of resources necessitates the formation of large alliances and corporations as simple escalation. This is a survival tactic. Just because every once in a while a large alliance uses the power they have to mount a campaign such as burn jita is not making the game unfair as such. It is in fact a clever move to raise prices and undoubtedly some people are making vast amounts of isk out of it.

to be successful in eve you cannot play alone. If you'd prefer this, go play X3 or some other single player space sim
Dav


Stop saying EVE is a Sandbox than. A sandbox supports every type of gamer including solo players, if the game Mechanics does not support solo play then it cannot be a sandbox because in a Sandbox a player decided what to do, when to do it and how to do it and if they choose solo then that should be an option. In EvE that is not an option, hense its NOT a sandbox, so stop with this crap about being a Sandbox.

Per your own logic EVE is not a sandbox because solo play is not an option due to game mechanics.

I happened to not play the game solo and enjoy it but to tell others that their game play is wrong because they want to play solo, than EVE cannot be a Sandbox.

I think you Vet EVE players should learn what a Sandbox is before you keep using it over and over again and clearly do not understand what a Sandbox is.


Actually, you CAN play solo. It's just that, much as it is in RL, there is only so much you can do on your own.

Solo play is fine if that is your cup of tea, however many more options open up when you start working with others.

I really don't think that's a difficult concept... and I think we "vets" are pretty accurate in our description of a sandbox type of game.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#280 - 2012-05-01 14:03:35 UTC
CCP supports the event because of the PR for the game. Not that freaking difficult to figure that out, is it?