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New dev blog: Observing the "Burn Jita" Player Event

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GRIEV3R
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#141 - 2012-05-02 17:54:33 UTC
Outstanding job, CCP! I love bragging about how great a game Eve is to my friends who play other games. What a great community and a great dev team. I love this game so much!
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-05-02 18:01:17 UTC
lots of tin foil hat wearing players in this thread
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2012-05-02 18:06:44 UTC
burn jita was kinda fun, shooting teh goons and all.... kinda didn't feel like it effected eve though
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#144 - 2012-05-02 18:08:19 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
lots of tin foil hat wearing players in this thread

It's almost like we secretly have shares in the leading headwear and aluminium foil companies...

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-05-02 18:12:14 UTC
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
You CCP jerks act like goons are heroes... cheering them, and quoting them in a dev blog?? I really have no respect for you anymore, but we all know, you don't give a damn about what a high sec player thinks of you.

If your so hell bent on EVE being a game of pirates and griefers, why do you even have concord and high sec??

Yeah, yeah, now the low/null dorks are all going to flame me, go ahead, I don't care.



Concord's role is to punish people AFTER THE FACT, not surround you in bubble wrap. Grow up.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#146 - 2012-05-02 18:18:46 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
lots of tin foil hat wearing players in this thread

It's almost like we secretly have shares in the leading headwear and aluminium foil companies...


Quote:
almost


"CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
Likes received: 300"

THIS. IS. CCP.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Velicitia
XS Tech
#147 - 2012-05-02 18:23:39 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
lots of tin foil hat wearing players in this thread

It's almost like we secretly have shares in the leading headwear and aluminium foil companies...



Shocked it all makes sense now!

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
malaire
#148 - 2012-05-02 18:28:14 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
.......... Description of the crimewatch bug.............


What happens now? What was the fix?

I could see:

Inform all clients of the correct time GCC time when someone jumps into system;
Make the 15 minute timer not subject to TiDi;
Something else...?

What was the fix?

You pretty much got it with your first idea. A critical part of the bug was if someone entered a system with no GCC timer, then nothing happened (a pretty reasonable thing to do, but ultimately wrong if they previously had a GCC timer that some clients think might still exists due to dilation).

Now if someone enters with no GCC, but had the incoming node has memory of them having a GCC recently, then an explicit "This person has no aggression, so he is innocent" update is sent to clients. This ensures they aren't operating under a false assumption.

What about a case where person coming back to system still has some GCC time left, but less than what is cached in other clients?

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#149 - 2012-05-02 18:31:58 UTC
Amy Garzan wrote:
One of the best blogs ever!
\o/ Big smile

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2012-05-02 18:38:44 UTC
I was hoping to see CCP partake in some kind of role playing to spice things up but do see that if they did, then it would be perceived as favoritism. Would have been interesting.
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2012-05-02 18:52:09 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
I'd rather people have the ability to defend JIta (if they so wish)

This time round some people did war dec Goonswarm Federation and attempt to make a stand. The fact they actually failed is irrelevent, they at least had the option. Next time that option won't exist unless they wish to pay the 4.2bn war dec fee a week for the privilege.

But Large Null sec alliances need protecting from terrible awful soul destroying grief war decs from 1 man corps, so I guess nothing can be done about it.



I don't understand the new wardec mechanics much, but is this something that needs to be looked at as 'unintended consequences'? That all 'burn Jita'-type events will be much more one-sided in the future?
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-05-02 18:53:59 UTC
Jon Hellguard wrote:
i was there. great work at ccp with real solid improvement on massgameplay for us players.

however... i'm terribly annoyed by the fact that thousands of pilots are not allowed to blow up jita station. c'mon ccp... you self introduced the cycle of eve and you self showed us the mudflation issue. your great, in fact awesome at not delivering much of a change - but opening up a window of opportunity to blow that station up would not just give eve a breaking news but us players a real cool moment to take part in. In fact... some might have tried to defend it? Btw. i thought you wanted to reduce hubs. It's soo simple... sooo darn simple. Let us blow them up and show us the new explosion effects as well :D

it's 2012 - not just the world should end. Let's pre-play the economic failure and destruction in-game. c'mon grow some f* balls!



That would entail enabling the Caldari to take real action against their attackers, would it not? After all, the station is a highly profitable part of Caldari space, and would be defended accordingly (especially being so near to the capital system)
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#153 - 2012-05-02 19:00:42 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
I was hoping to see CCP partake in some kind of role playing to spice things up but do see that if they did, then it would be perceived as favoritism. Would have been interesting.



You know if this happened we'd cheer as much as anybody. Content owns, it don't matter if we win or lose whatever fight, just being able to play a game with cool things to do and fun things going on is why we're here.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#154 - 2012-05-02 19:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Duvida wrote:
Jon Hellguard wrote:
i was there. great work at ccp with real solid improvement on massgameplay for us players.

however... i'm terribly annoyed by the fact that thousands of pilots are not allowed to blow up jita station. c'mon ccp... you self introduced the cycle of eve and you self showed us the mudflation issue. your great, in fact awesome at not delivering much of a change - but opening up a window of opportunity to blow that station up would not just give eve a breaking news but us players a real cool moment to take part in. In fact... some might have tried to defend it? Btw. i thought you wanted to reduce hubs. It's soo simple... sooo darn simple. Let us blow them up and show us the new explosion effects as well :D

it's 2012 - not just the world should end. Let's pre-play the economic failure and destruction in-game. c'mon grow some f* balls!



That would entail enabling the Caldari to take real action against their attackers, would it not? After all, the station is a highly profitable part of Caldari space, and would be defended accordingly (especially being so near to the capital system)


Let's think about that: When an actual nation comes under attack, several things happen. It (generally) raises taxes, and constrains the private use of any resources critical to its military operations. Then, by one means or another, it rallies an army to its defense. Now, we have the Serpentis/BoB event as a negative example, but we also have it as canon that conventionally piloted ships can't stand up to capsuleer-piloted ships. To back that up, we also have it as in-game history that the Serpentis got roflstomped. So, who would the Caldari State call upon to defend against an attack by capsuleers? Capsuleers.

With enough carrots and the right sticks, you could turn an event like this into some combination of an Incursion (wartime taxes and restrictions) and Factional Warfare on a truly grand scale.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2012-05-02 19:08:08 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
I was hoping to see CCP partake in some kind of role playing to spice things up but do see that if they did, then it would be perceived as favoritism. Would have been interesting.



You know if this happened we'd cheer as much as anybody. Content owns, it don't matter if we win or lose whatever fight, just being able to play a game with cool things to do and fun things going on is why we're here.


Not true. If CCP had role played by making concord more powerful or having the Caldari Navy respond or declare war on the goons, CCP would have been viewed as anti-goon. Even their little warning on the log in page can be viewed as anti-goon and I'm not sure why they even did that.

CCP can either play in the sandbox officially or they can't play in it. No inbetween
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#156 - 2012-05-02 19:10:06 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Let's think about that: When an actual nation comes under attack, several things happen. It (generally) raises taxes, and constrains the private use of any resources critical to its military operations. Then, by one means or another, it rallies an army to its defense. Now, we have the Serpentis/BoB event as a negative example, but we also have it as canon that conventionally piloted ships can't stand up to capsuleer-piloted ships. To back that up, we also have it as in-game history that the Serpentis got roflstomped. So, who would the Caldari State call upon to defend against an attack by capsuleers? Capsuleers.

With enough carrots and the right sticks, you could turn an event like this into some combination of an Incursion (wartime taxes and restrictions) and Factional Warfare on a truly grand scale.


Are you suggesting that the Caldari Militia members would have bounties paid to them for shooting Goons (or whomever)?

That would be . . . interesting.

MDD
Kryxal
Wing Born Echos
#157 - 2012-05-02 19:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryxal
CCP Masterplan wrote:

You pretty much got it with your first idea. A critical part of the bug was if someone entered a system with no GCC timer, then nothing happened (a pretty reasonable thing to do, but ultimately wrong if they previously had a GCC timer that some clients think might still exists due to dilation).

Now if someone enters with no GCC, but had the incoming node has memory of them having a GCC recently, then an explicit "This person has no aggression, so he is innocent" update is sent to clients. This ensures they aren't operating under a false assumption.


I hope you did something similar to prevent things like re-entering with a minute left on the GCC, letting it expire server-side, and setting people up to be concordokkened. I could see it happening if they wait out 10 minutes outside while 2 minutes pass, and the sync isn't deemed needed.

edit: oops, somebody caught it already and I hadn't made it that far...
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#158 - 2012-05-02 19:39:08 UTC
Honestly, something as simple as setting the alliance (and current members, so no corp-dropping for the weekend to dodge it) as outlaws would have been perfectly reasonable. You don't have Empire NPCs trying to engage capsuleers then (as stated, they'd probably be outclassed), you just allow the highsec capsuleers to "defend their investments" without CONCORD stopping it.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Raneru
Viper-Squad
Pandemic Horde
#159 - 2012-05-02 20:01:00 UTC
I was in defending Jita over the Fri and Sat (ok ok, I was whoring killmails...)
I would say the module lag was quite frustrating at times. The time between someone being flagged as GCC, locking them and my guns activating was sometimes longer that it took the sentries/concord to finish a BC off.

Does TiDi apply to Concord as well as players?

I will say however that I was the most fun I've ever had in Jita. Bravo Goons and CCP Cool
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#160 - 2012-05-02 21:00:09 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Are you suggesting that the Caldari Militia members would have bounties paid to them for shooting Goons (or whomever)?

That would be . . . interesting.

MDD


I'm not going to get into specifics like that, because I'd wind up over my head pretty quickly. But yes, there would have to be some kind of carrot, and that's an obvious one. You could have the bounties paid out of the additional taxes levied, so that it's neither sink nor faucet (and, so that industrialists can aid the war effort by keeping the economy vibrant, and funding the war through taxes paid).

Say, non-FW corps could receive a charter to join the Militia for some period of time, almost (or exactly?) the way mercenary contracting will work under the new wardec system. In return for carrots, the corp would head off to battle on behalf of the host Empire.

Done right, it could be pretty cool. It would not only bring the hi-sec empires to life, it would be a huge boost to FW, and it would recognize, in a fundamental way, that the nullsec powers are empires in their own right.

I think it's an idea worth kicking around.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!