These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Possibly too far with balancing Incursions?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zita Devon
Z.Devon Trade Industry.
#81 - 2012-04-25 12:31:32 UTC
welcom to the NEW day's of incurtions...

where you befor was able to run .. and have fun in a group.. training pilot's up for Assult and YES PvP .. you now have made all this useless.. unless you REALY know's what is going on.. you will not be able to do anything at all...

befor this patch.. ppl was "farmeing" VG's yes.. and skilled players WHO have been around sinds the begining was able to top off a werry high sorse of incom running this.. "speed" fleet's was made from "elite" players who put in the time to get the right skill's for what thy needed to do... and YES thy did get there pay out .. a fair value of there time and devotion.

to the fact about all ppl unning VG's got stinky rich.. EVERY one knowes this is not true.. you had 6 site's per sytem.. and you had 8 fleet's running.. you did only shoot a site for like 4 min's to get 10 mill... but after this NORMAL runners was Waiting 15 maybe 20 min's for there next site..

I was running this new VG's yesterday after DT. i do enjoy that we have to relay on the FC to derict the main fire.. "eg. might as well fly PVP fleet's" and i do enjoy that ppl flying shiney ship's are paying attention 120%.. and not Tab's out to read forum or what ever..
social chat in fleets are DEAD.. you can't text chat while fighting . and you can't Talk over the FC..

Running missions if FARE better to do now.. as your the ONLY human in a mission WHO can **** up.. not like now where it dosn't mather if YOU do it right.. another player might not and your risk of dead fleet.

seccont... Let's talk about server stability .. you have a VG fleet running with enogh DPS ship's and Logi's to still suvive if members of fleet Crashed... thanks to CCP. this is no longer posable.. if you lose members from your VG fleet . you will be out gunned by the incomming sansha force.. and members will die..

but then again.. try to remember EVE is a game .. not a part time job...

for those of you who don't like part's of the game.. do something else.. and IF you find nothing else to do in EVE.. find another GAME.. enjoy your free time in life... enjoy ever houre.. the wrested time you spent on something you don't like will never come back....

Thums up for Nill seq... another manipulation great proformed.. what is the next thing you guy's like to **** up?
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#82 - 2012-04-25 12:36:13 UTC
Lactasia wrote:
As it stands CCP has killed a social mechanic meant to bring people together.



Social mechanic?


Hun, god invented that it's called your mouth.
Hawk GB
LightningStrikesTwice
Invidia Gloriae Comes
#83 - 2012-04-25 12:37:56 UTC
I've read every post here and most of the people that have posted seem only to have their own interest at heart

Lets have a look at the bigger picture. Incursion Runners, before the patch, made a tonne of Isk and Concord LP's. They plex their account, buy expensive ships and fits, occasionally lose said expensive ships and fits. They also use the Isk to buy their ships in null for pvp etc.

The Null sec PVP player, FINDS expensive mods in anoms and scanned down sites that can take less time than an incursion and earn more Isk, has the ability to mine the expensive and rare ores needed to build ships etc, and enjoys killing well fitted shiney ships

Lets look at this closer. Incursions Die. Moaning Null sec pilots rejoice! Then they realise that nobody is buying their shiney mods they found in a 2 minute site. Nobody is buying the ships they build and they have fewer shiney ships to fight because other people no longer have the Isk to buy them. They lose Isk and struggle to make it back

Now thats what I call cutting your nose off to spite your face isn't it

I enjoy running incursions because it gives me the Isk to do the things in null which I also enjoy doing.It also gives me a break from null sec when I want to take part in a different aspect of the game or help hi sec corpies out. Incursions have boosted the market and have, indirectly, made alot of other pilots plenty of Isk. Pilots who have never set foot in an incursion before. Pilots that make ammo, ships and mods. It's a god way of teaching new players the aspects of flying in a fleet and helps new FCs develop. It gives pirates the opportunity to do what they do best and gank fleets with excellent rewards for doing so. It's a game mechanic with a domino effect. Take it out and a lot of things will go with it.

All of the above are aspects of the game. Everyone has a choice of what aspect they play and how they play it. Note the word GAME. It's about time the eve community stopped moaning and started playing.
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame
#84 - 2012-04-25 12:46:56 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
I have been doing incursions for a long time now.

There are 3 ways I could see that they could have done this very effectively.


  • Financial - Reduce income per site { DONE}
  • Formatting - Mix up the waves so that there are more Frigates in OTA's needing killed and Cruisers in NCO's {DONE}
  • Bigger Waves - Make it that you have to kill every NPC in the wave for the next to spawn and only complete the site {DONE}


Personally I think one or 2 of these, used in combination would have done the job in reducing the elite fleets from having such a boring line up. So it would make them more likely to bring a mixture of Cruisers and Battleships.


* you also need to have more specialised players, like in assaults, wich encreases the complexity of the site, and makes harder to recruit "just another DPS"

* when ccp applied the nerfings, they neglected to take in account how often people spend waiting to form a proper fleet with the necessary logistics and dps / ships to run a vanguard site

* the current layout on vanguards makes it take 2-3x more to complete, bringing the pay out down to actually -66% just on the time it takes to complete + (-10) which in effect, reduces the pay out of vanguards by 76% +/-



* the new spawns are actually fun and challenging to run, but they're more at a difficulty level betwin the former vanguards and the assaults.

they were intended to be run by 5-10 players, but wile before , it was possible to run them a bit light on dps or logi or even accept unskilled players that still would be usefull, or even have chance of performing miracle rescues on "Leroys", or survive server disconnections, the current sites are no place for mistakes, or for noob players.
far from a fleet being able to allow some unskilled but still useful pilot, the new vanguards are now, more of a place for elite pilots, where every pilot counts and 10-11 are the necessary requirement.


i challenge a team of 5 ccp members, with "average skills" to try to run the new vanguard sites, to see if that "recommended minimum 5 players" in the description really makes sense.


* this layout is still interesting, but the payout should really be reviewed - i urge ccp to verify this


** scout sites are useless ... miss opportunity of buffing them in complexity and payout ... and actually make them useful to small fleets unable to make a bigger fleet in the dead hours when they can't find enough for higher level incursions.


*** on other aspect of this patch, drone loot was refined again, and the replacement bounty is like half of other normal rats for what people have commented - this is not good, you're destroying the way of life of people ... sure people have to adapt, and you have the right to nerf or twek things, but brutal changes are always dramatic.



the new UI improvements are good, but the Brutal nerfs are exaggerated and it's not a positive patch like "Cruiciable Patch" it starts to sound more like "incarna lol expansion" in the terms of disappointing people.


if you keep it up in this direction don't get surprised about players reactions. right now, people are already talking about unsubscribing extra accounts and buying less plexes because it's no longer necessary.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-04-25 12:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Trinity Six wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
My thoughts on Incursions in they should be a CONCORD free zone even when theyre in High sec.

The idea CONCORD can keep the peace when theres a pirate incursion going on is stupid

Trinity Six wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
[quote=Trinity Six]
(7:33:25 PM) LowsecIncursioner6: As the mechanics stands, incursions are dead.


lol... really? Hell 0.0 ppl what you guys been crying about... they didnt need to remove them, just nerf em 10% an ppl wont touch them

it's more than 10%. 10% would have been fine.


Oh yeah and they made it harder....
Something people have been asking CCP to do with PVE for YEARS

Adapt or die

Well, at least the 0.0 ppl will stop QQing about incursions and go back to QQing about lvl 4s while they quietly count the money made by their tech moons.


Yes, they made it harder. We all agree that it should have been harder. You are generalizing the situation by making a blanket statement of 'durr dey made it harder. dat's a good ting." The fact that they're harder is great - we all agree with that. But wait - it takes 47 minutes to do a site now. With more people required to do it. Because of this, a social games' primary social PVE experience has been nerfed so much that it is unviable. In return, players are moving to a solo experience (level 4's or GASP! mining). Now do you see the issue here? MINING is now more profitable that a well-built social PVE experience.

"durr its harder now. me like". that's good. go back to ratting or mining in hisec now, pubbie.

Wow why do i bother with the general idiocy this forum provides.


awwww you lose your isk faucet? QQ moar.

Or as the guy you quoted said "adapt or die"

*edit sink to faucet I knew it had to do with plumbing

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-04-25 12:57:41 UTC
Templar Nato wrote:


Personally I think that if the Incursion nerf stands as it currently is on Tranquility this will be the end of High Sec Incursions.


Good, the risk averse will go back to lvl IVs. Youd think the 0.0 ppl would then stop QQing about high sec since theyve broken the major Isk faucet there, but who wants to lay bets how liong till they start QQing about lvl IVs lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#87 - 2012-04-25 12:58:11 UTC
Capt NoeZ wrote:

warping to a pos as soon as some1 enters local clearly takes so much skill that it should at least triple your income. ~~elite~~

It was content that actual players ran, and not content 'automated' like 0.0 is.



You quite missed the point there.

You see, to get to the point where you can do that, there is plenty of stuff to do. Plus it aint everlasting.

Both incursions and nullsec carebearing are automated isk faucets once you get a hang of them.

To be able to carebear in null you need:

1) To claim sov (via diplomacy or pay 5B ISK / month rent fee)
2) Wait for a week in order to place IHUB and some upgrades to system (or u get no anoms)
3) Move stuff down without being popped, have several PvP and PvE ships and means to replace them which needs quite alot of logistics and planning
4) Anchor that POS you mentioned and pay ~200M / month to keep it active
5) Watch the local and intel channel all the time while shooting rats

To be able to carebear incursions you need to:

1) Visit Jita and dish out 200M isk for a ship+fitting
2) Autopilot 5 jmps to incursion site
3) Spam [shipname] [wanted site] [LFSF / LFAF] with your ship fitting in link till someone picks you up
4) Look at target markers on overview as FC marks primaries and press F1-F8


I challenge you to set up yourself in 20 minutes for carebear nullsec life :) I can set up myself in that time for hisec incursions ;)


I.
Miss Yanumano
Cadence Industrial Syndicate
#88 - 2012-04-25 13:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Yanumano
Seems like people have entirely forgotten that low and null sec Incursions exist too, and they are ****** over even harder, some of us don't care **** all about high sec Incursions, nerf them all to hell for what I care, too easy ISK/h with no risk, but there are other forms of Incursions too.

EDIT: Though my Concord LP value is about to skyrocket!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-04-25 13:01:39 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
The thing I was hoping CCP would do and something that would be supported storyline would be...


Sansha are running low on resources, they realise that they cannot sustain these assaults against Concord and the Capsuleers

So He sells off the tech to the other pirate factions, so that they may be able to Invade Constellations using similar wormhole tech.

This would bring great variety and each Pirate faction would have slightly different problems to overcome.

Angel TP more and be higher DPS than current incursion NPC's

Dark Blood Neut more and have harder tanks

Shadow do high DPS at close range as well as dampen

Gursista use more ECM and have most flexible range for DPS.

The difference in what to expect in each type of incursion would mean needing to plan it differently and would remove the "cookie cutter" fleets. So all machs and all legions. Wouldn't just be the answer. You'd be forced to overcome different obstacles


Yes cause endless incursion fleets makes so much sense storyline wise. I think this was a idea at making a great social even in EVE that was abused and farmed to death.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-04-25 13:03:37 UTC
Templar Nato wrote:
Trinity Six wrote:
Ya, Assaults WERE going to be the new vanguards with what we saw on Sisi and read in the patch notes.
Then CCP decided they actually love to lie to their gaming population, and ****** us all in our asses.


Yeah, I was pretty surprised to see the changes on TQ were actually more severe that what we experimented with on Sisi.

At this point is seems like a waste of development time to have poured so many resources into creating content like this only to make it pointless to run.


Kind of thinking though, if there wasnt so much QQ from 0.0 (remove tech moons) about it and the anti Incursion ppl werent so loud, this "fix" never would have happened

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-04-25 13:07:42 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Slightly Degotoga wrote:
Who the hell is skunkworks?


whenever there is a glitch or an exploit that allows you to kill unaware/lightlydefended/non-pvp ships
they find it and exploit it then they do a combination of complaining and acting like marytrs when its fixed

honestly the first part about what they do, figuring out glitches and exploits sounds fun and intelligent and i give them kudos for that

they just do it with the grace of a drunk Irishman


So like Goonswarm acts in every other game they play in (hell they turned Star Trek Online into a nonconsentual PVP game for about a month with ability glitches)?

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
yugi272
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-04-25 13:12:03 UTC
Considering i did logistics yesterday a while in new incursions vanguard sites, i would like to state that the sites are extremly harder now (to be precise the OTA's). The nerf really was welcome, but it's just too much, and really not simply worth the time put into it. Il just avoid OTA's since the time needed to take them down is too much, other sites can be done a few mins faster, and i think most of the people will just relly in this case on:"someone else will do the OTA's".
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-04-25 13:17:54 UTC
IMeres wrote:
AstarothPrime wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
I run incursions when I need isk. The funny thing is I've seen more than a few people who posted 'HTFU' 'CAERBEAR TEARS' 'nerfed incursions GG CCP!' in here begging to be let into fleet with badly fit ships. oh well vOv



I tried incursions once or twice when I was waiting for my JC 24 hr timer to run out so i can jump back to null...

I browsed loadouts and found nice "abaddon VG LFAF" which cost no more then 20M isk in mods + hull which I already had to fit... Opened journal, found incursion site, got there and spammed "abaddon VG LFAF" for 10 mins till someone had mercy and let me in, so i joined TS etc etc, joy...
Next thing -> we got into site, FC marked primaries pew pew, shot 3-4 frigates, 2-3 cruisers, 1 BS -> 5-10 mins altogether with warping in and out and message pops out and Im 10M isk richer.
I was like FFS, whats this, why the **** am I looking over my shoulder all the time in null when there is something like this around in hisec.

There, is nerf now explained?

I.


You can replace pretty much everything you said about Incursions with level 4 missions from now on.


Wow that was fast Id have expected it would take a week or so to start the "QQ lvl 4s need nerfing QQ" to start up again especially since the 0.0 ppl have infinite moon **** income.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#94 - 2012-04-25 13:26:11 UTC
Slightly Degotoga wrote:
Who the hell is skunkworks?

Ahh, a goon alt. Hi there :)

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#95 - 2012-04-25 13:27:09 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
they just do it with the grace of a drunk Irishman

Have you ever seen a drunk Irishman? Don't they look like they're have a LOT of fun? Big smile

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#96 - 2012-04-25 13:28:34 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
is this what skunksworks has been reduced to?
babysitting the forums looking for places they can talk themselves up :/
you guys need to get back in the game and start griefing people again

I'm SKNK's unofficial self-appointed and often disavowed Minister of Forum Propaganda. Anyone who doesn't realize this by now hasn't been paying attention for the past six months.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-04-25 13:32:27 UTC
AstarothPrime wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
I run incursions when I need isk. The funny thing is I've seen more than a few people who posted 'HTFU' 'CAERBEAR TEARS' 'nerfed incursions GG CCP!' in here begging to be let into fleet with badly fit ships. oh well vOv



I tried incursions once or twice when I was waiting for my JC 24 hr timer to run out so i can jump back to null...

I browsed loadouts and found nice "abaddon VG LFAF" which cost no more then 20M isk in mods + hull which I already had to fit... Opened journal, found incursion site, got there and spammed "abaddon VG LFAF" for 10 mins till someone had mercy and let me in, so i joined TS etc etc, joy...
Next thing -> we got into site, FC marked primaries pew pew, shot 3-4 frigates, 2-3 cruisers, 1 BS -> 5-10 mins altogether with warping in and out and message pops out and Im 10M isk richer.
I was like FFS, whats this, why the **** am I looking over my shoulder all the time in null when there is something like this around in hisec.

There, is nerf now explained?

I.

Where did I cry nerf/unnerf? I'll be nice to you and let you off with just that.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#98 - 2012-04-25 13:44:19 UTC
Katy Ling wrote:
* when ccp applied the nerfings, they neglected to take in account how often people spend waiting to form a proper fleet with the necessary logistics and dps / ships to run a vanguard site

Get yourself an incursion corp or at least a group you can depend on running sites with. Schedule certain days and have a flexible-enough group that you can proceed with 1 or 2 members not available. Pick-up fleets SHOULD eat into your income versus having an organized and prepared group.

Katy Ling wrote:
if you keep it up in this direction don't get surprised about players reactions. right now, people are already talking about unsubscribing extra accounts and buying less plexes because it's no longer necessary.

TBH, if they're plexing their accounts now losing them won't hurt CCP at all. PLEX prices could drop 20% and I don't think they'd see a decline in sales of PLEX at all. Possibly even an increase as it would take 5 PLEX to hit 2 billion instead of 4.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#99 - 2012-04-25 13:44:34 UTC
Hawk GB wrote:
occasionally lose said expensive ships and fits.

...HOW?

It took me almost a year to lose my first T2-fit w-space Legion, and that was to someone finally catching me not paying attention literally 30 seconds before I was finished with the hole I was running. If you're losing Incursion ships at a rate higher than I lose ships in w-space, you or your fleetmates are doing it wrong.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#100 - 2012-04-25 13:57:57 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Hawk GB wrote:
occasionally lose said expensive ships and fits.

...HOW?

It took me almost a year to lose my first T2-fit w-space Legion, and that was to someone finally catching me not paying attention literally 30 seconds before I was finished with the hole I was running. If you're losing Incursion ships at a rate higher than I lose ships in w-space, you or your fleetmates are doing it wrong.


or are getting ppl doing that greifing logi thing

Ive heard thats an easy wau to lose a faction fit ship

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game