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Module activation delay. (Videos inside)

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Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-04-24 20:56:31 UTC
actually not sure how long it's been a problem for now, but I do remmeber a time when I did not experience it... like I do now adays, regardless of it being something that was introduced by accident, I think CCP should improve this area

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#22 - 2012-04-25 00:35:16 UTC
I haven't had any module lag.

Wish I could help any...
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-04-25 06:09:10 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
I haven't had any module lag.

Wish I could help any...


Could you perhaps make a video doing the same thing as I did? showing you don't have the 1 sec delay?... that would help

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2012-04-25 06:46:28 UTC
Yes, this should be fixed.

.
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#25 - 2012-04-25 08:25:57 UTC
Your scram maybe on but the server has a short delay before it registers and sends info the target's client. To the target you haven't scrammed him. The server doesn't see it either.

The nature of latency and serverside/client interfacing.

Just like the Bullets in BF3 that curve around corner and kill you due to lag.
Othran
Route One
#26 - 2012-04-25 08:35:23 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
actually not sure how long it's been a problem for now, but I do remmeber a time when I did not experience it... like I do now adays, regardless of it being something that was introduced by accident, I think CCP should improve this area


It has been a problem since 2010 (just before Incursions IIRC) but something has made it worse in the last 6 months or so.

The "workaround" was to lock them in space rather than overview (yes I know the overview lags a bit, that's not what I mean) with a pre-heated point. That doesn't seem to work now, not really been playing enough to say when it started.
Mark Androcius
#27 - 2012-04-25 09:04:00 UTC
The problem obviously is in the programming.

The way it works now:

you target someone - server gets your request - other persons client reacts.
target locked - now scram is activated - server gets your request - other persons client reacts.


The way it could/should work:

you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not.
If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away.

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-04-25 09:48:27 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
The problem obviously is in the programming.

The way it works now:

you target someone - server gets your request - other persons client reacts.
target locked - now scram is activated - server gets your request - other persons client reacts.


The way it could/should work:

you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not.
If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away.


Exactly what I want, and what I am talking about

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Mufa Jaynara
Pro Synergy
#29 - 2012-04-25 10:44:53 UTC
CCP... will you loook into this? regardless of if you consider it a problem or not?...
Regardlss of if it's always been like this, or if it was actually introduced with the incursion expansion (I think it was now that I think about it)
If you are not going to do anything about it... then why is that? because your worried about stress on the server? too many man hours? or simply because you don't care, because most people are unaffected by this 1 sec delay?...

Why havn't you done anything about it earlier when Bubanni has made you aware of it?...
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-04-25 11:10:50 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
So, I was thinking, could more poeple confirm they experienced this annoying delay? and how many would agree they want it optimized to "happen less" ?


When warp is already activated you can't use propulsion mods, target or simply shoot.

About that "delay", it's an issue server/client, things are being done so much more information etc is client side and this is very good to effectively decrease server response = effects on your screen.

A lot of stuff is still in need to be done and the greatest of them all, the one bringing a lot of lag server/client comes from that fecking overview ! - once all system, ships, names and whatsoever crap information is client side with a minimum server/client load this delay you are rightly talking about will be lower than now.
It's already really good compared with a couple years ago and it will only become better.

Be patient, create a specific petition and eventually ask escalation if you feel the answer is not enough clear to you. This "delay" is the result of a lot of stuff in this specific game design from 10 years ago, things are changing in a good way, well we can always discuss aesthetics but technically it's getting better for you.
CCP Paradox
#31 - 2012-04-25 11:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Paradox
Been watching this thread.
EDIT: Talked to some guys, I recommend you watch the EVE Keynote at Fanfest 2012.
In particular, CCP Veritas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NEJbwZCgNgU#t=4565s

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Miss Yanumano
Cadence Industrial Syndicate
#32 - 2012-04-25 11:43:35 UTC
Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-04-25 11:57:23 UTC
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!



No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time.
In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible).

It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes.
I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point.
Miss Yanumano
Cadence Industrial Syndicate
#34 - 2012-04-25 12:26:51 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!



No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time.
In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible).

It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes.
I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point.


I'm well versed in how software works or can work, I can say for my own part my Internet connection is very high end (100-1000Mbit, 20-30ms to Tranquility), and my computer is also high end, and I experience this all the time.
Ur235
Appetite 4 Destruction
#35 - 2012-04-25 13:01:09 UTC
I would advise you to activate you scram right after you have locked that always works for me and I dnt have to rely on the server to activate the point as I do it manually

hmm
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-04-25 13:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
CCP Paradox wrote:
Been watching this thread.
EDIT: Talked to some guys, I recommend you watch the EVE Keynote at Fanfest 2012.
In particular, CCP Veritas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NEJbwZCgNgU#t=4565s


Just knowing you guys have an eye on the thread sooths me :)

Tanya Powers wrote:
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!



No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time.
In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible).

It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes.
I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point.

To me it seems like it's not overview related when you look at my first video, when i'm not even using the overview to target the structure

Ur235 wrote:
I would advise you to activate you scram right after you have locked that always works for me and I dnt have to rely on the server to activate the point as I do it manually


I just experimented with trying to activate point exactly after the lock had been established right now, there was still a 1 sec delay from after I clicked, until the point was actually active.

I did experience 1 time out of of my 10 attempts, that it seemed like the point actually activated right away, (the second I pressed the point)

So I guess in those instances, it might depend on if your pressing right before a server tick, or right after...

But regardless, I think the most optimal would be that the point is activated on the same server tick as the lock. (so the target is pointed the same second as you have a sucessful lock)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Disaster Strikes
#37 - 2012-04-25 14:11:19 UTC
This is the reason people call "point" and then the prey warps off half a second later.

Damn nature, you scary!
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-04-25 14:16:45 UTC
:P I should mention, that back when I was trying very hard last time to get CCP to do something about it, I also confirmed that the people we were testing it with.... confirmed they had in fact been yellow boxed, before warping away, while of cause the guy with the point had tried to activate point, even prefired it... :)

It's that 1 sec that makes all the difference

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-04-26 10:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
CCP Paradox, that thing in the video... do you think that will help on that 1 sec the point (module) takes to activate?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but will it begin processing the request the second it is pressed then?
and what was the timeline for that improvement?, and again, from my side... doesn't it seem just as easy to make the module already "activated" server side, when it's prefired... but only take affect once the target is locked? thus being activated the second the target is locked?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=250973#post250973 oh and here is the thread I posted some months ago, this wasn't the first time I did, talk to Lemur if he still works for CCP, as he said he would look into it too... or rather he had told some other programming monkey to look into it... but never heard back.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-04-29 19:35:35 UTC
Bump

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934