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Keith Planck

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 975

#61 - 2012-04-25 09:46:16 UTC

xVx dreadnaught wrote:

I am all for change.

One of the things I said when I started doing incursions was "omg, we're making too much money" And it's been known for a long time that the nerf was coming...

But we were hoping for changes that would benefit the incursion community on a whole. Instead the actioned changes have a more negative effect on the community than the elitist blitz fleets.

If anything, the only way to actually make the sites worth doing would be to be part of an elitist blitz fleet. It's the only way you're going to get the sites done in any decent time.

the "omg im making too much money" isnt really that accurate

> wait 2 hours to get into a fleet then make 70mil in an hour then fleet falls apart

thats the typical incursion runner experience
only people who invest time into creating groups who can form quickly make more then 100mil/hr (if you include form up time)

♞

Keith Planck

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 975

#62 - 2012-04-25 09:47:51 UTC

Templar Nato wrote:

There is no such thing as a Blitz fleet anymore, since blitzing isn't possible with the changes to the mechanics.

Vanguard blitz fleets used to do OTAs and NMCs in 3-4 minutes, that has been nerfed to 5-6 minutes for NMCs and 7-8 minutes for OTAs.

It's not "blitzing" anymore but they have pretty much made it so ONLY shiny ships with high dps will be able to make decent money.

♞

Templar Nato

Likes received: 19

#63 - 2012-04-25 09:52:29 UTC | Edited by: Templar Nato

Keith Planck wrote:

Templar Nato wrote:

There is no such thing as a Blitz fleet anymore, since blitzing isn't possible with the changes to the mechanics.

I'll agree with that. I have a feeling that people flying those shiny ships are going to start looking for other income sources though, which will in turn make fleets more difficult/ time consuming to get up.... Which leads to more people leaving ...


Templar Nato Likes received: 19	#64 - 2012-04-25 09:53:05 UTC \| Edited by: Templar Nato Ugh ... double post.


Templar Nato Likes received: 19	#65 - 2012-04-25 09:54:08 UTC \| Edited by: Templar Nato Triple post fail.

Aryana Ucksth

Camellia Void Cartographics

Likes received: 21

#66 - 2012-04-25 10:00:17 UTC | Edited by: CCP Navigator

drdxie wrote:

Aryana Ucksth wrote:

C'mon CCP, the changes on Singularity were perfect, all you needed to do on top of that was reduce the payouts for nullsec to like 80%, reduce hisec to 50%, and leave lowsec at 100%. Sites would have been balanced at around 100m/hr for lowsec, armor vanguards and shield assaults could both run, and it would encourage hisec (no risk) runners and nullsec (no risk in friendly space) runners to come play in lowsec! It would have been fun!

Now nobody is going to run incursions with me anymore :(

This made me chuckle.... the null bears wanted the change, but now that it impacts them.. they come out whining.. Lol

Did you actually read my post?

I don't think you did. I was suggesting nullsec incursions to get nerfed as well. Do you not understand why? I will tell you why: Because we, and by we, I mean nullbears, already know where all possible nullsec incursions can spawn, and have jump bridge networks around them. Whenever they spawn in friendly space, we have tons of scouts, and the area is locked down. In hisec there is some risk of suicide ganking. During a nullsec incursion there is zero risk, and I am not given to exaggeration.

Nullsec incursions, by and large, rarely get run, because they often spawn in space where the local sov holders don't know what to do with them (looking at you, SMA), and therefore usually ran their courses and despawned at 0%. Lowsec incursions were where we were making bank. Not nullsec.

Lowsec incursions are the riskiest, as they can not be locked down and hellcamped like nullsec incursions, and there is no Concord like in hisec. A small ahac gang can come in and mess your day up if (when) you get lazy.

Whining? Nah. No whining. Just sad, because this was a fun social thing for ~everyone~ that isn't going to happen anymore unless CCP backs off a little on the nerfbat.

Templar Nato

Likes received: 19

#67 - 2012-04-25 10:02:55 UTC

Aryana Ucksth wrote:

Did you actually read my post?

I don't think you did. I was suggesting nullsec incursions to get nerfed as well. Do you not understand why? I will tell you why: Because we, and by we, I mean nullbears, already know where all possible nullsec incursions can spawn, and have jump bridge networks around them. Whenever they spawn in friendly space, we all go jew it up, we have tons of scouts, and the area is locked down. In hisec there is some risk of suicide ganking. During a nullsec incursion there is zero risk, and I am not given to exaggeration.

Nullsec incursions, by and large, rarely get run, because they often spawn in space where the local sov holders don't know what to do with them (looking at you, SMA), and therefore usually ran their courses and despawned at 0%. Lowsec incursions were where we were making bank. Not nullsec.

Lowsec incursions are the riskiest, as they can not be locked down and hellcamped like nullsec incursions, and there is no Concord like in hisec. A small ahac gang can come in and mess your day up if (when) you get lazy.

Whining? Nah. No whining. Just sad, because this was a fun social thing for ~everyone~ that isn't going to happen anymore unless CCP backs off a little on the nerfbat.

Well put.

Brewlar Kuvakei

Adeptio Gloriae

Likes received: 338

#68 - 2012-04-25 10:18:50 UTC

Spark Progenitori wrote:

If the intent of nerfing incurisons was to balance the risk/reward for highsec blitzing fleets, then the mechanics should have been changed specific to highsec incursions. Low/nullsec incursion runners had much more risk to deal with, and gave plenty of juicy targets for pvp pilots to shoot. This nerf makes incursions (regardless of sec status or risk) not worth anybody's time or effort, and no longer a social "endgame" of PVE in EVE.
if you want the players of your game to enjoy the game, you have to give them balanced, worthwhile incentives as rewards. "defeating the sansha meanace" is hardly a reward when i could "defeat the serpentis menace" for more isk/hr, for less risk,

WTF they nerfed low and null incursions that is so dumb if anything they should be boosted.

AstarothPrime

Pecunia Infinita

Likes received: 25

#69 - 2012-04-25 10:22:56 UTC

Do some effort.

There is plenty of null space available for rent ATM since recent move left most of it deserted.

Join some proper alliance and make yourself move to null. Find out what REAL waiting is when you need to jump your fleet (both pvp and pve) into new location while every deployment and midjump zone is merrily camped by reds / neuts. Then grind 40 x 3 x 2 day reinforcment timers to claim your space for countless hours in fleets of dreads, carriers, logi, fighting off enemy fleets who arent so happy for taking their sov etc etc...

Then you will realise shouting "shiny DPS mach LFSF" isnt what teaming up to do effort is all about...
And THEN you will realise null "bears" have a point in shunning pathetic efforts in keeping giant hisec ISK faucets such as incursions intact...

I.

Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4,673
Jake Warbird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic Likes received: 4,673	#70 - 2012-04-25 10:26:15 UTC 1 I run incursions when I need isk. The funny thing is I've seen more than a few people who posted 'HTFU' 'CAERBEAR TEARS' 'nerfed incursions GG CCP!' in here begging to be let into fleet with badly fit ships. oh well vOv Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.

AstarothPrime

Pecunia Infinita

Likes received: 25

#71 - 2012-04-25 10:35:02 UTC

Jake Warbird wrote:

I run incursions when I need isk. The funny thing is I've seen more than a few people who posted 'HTFU' 'CAERBEAR TEARS' 'nerfed incursions GG CCP!' in here begging to be let into fleet with badly fit ships. oh well vOv

I tried incursions once or twice when I was waiting for my JC 24 hr timer to run out so i can jump back to null...

I browsed loadouts and found nice "abaddon VG LFAF" which cost no more then 20M isk in mods + hull which I already had to fit... Opened journal, found incursion site, got there and spammed "abaddon VG LFAF" for 10 mins till someone had mercy and let me in, so i joined TS etc etc, joy...
Next thing -> we got into site, FC marked primaries pew pew, shot 3-4 frigates, 2-3 cruisers, 1 BS -> 5-10 mins altogether with warping in and out and message pops out and Im 10M isk richer.
I was like FFS, whats this, why the **** am I looking over my shoulder all the time in null when there is something like this around in hisec.

There, is nerf now explained?

I.

JitaPriceChecker2

Doomheim

Likes received: 239

#72 - 2012-04-25 10:43:04 UTC

Spark Progenitori wrote:

Agree with above poster, there was not really much point of nerfing incursions outside of hi sec.

IMeres

Hellfire Heavy Industries

Likes received: 10

#73 - 2012-04-25 10:45:32 UTC | Edited by: IMeres

AstarothPrime wrote:

Jake Warbird wrote:

You can replace pretty much everything you said about Incursions with level 4 missions from now on.

Miss Yanumano

Cadence Industrial Syndicate

Likes received: 42

#74 - 2012-04-25 10:46:41 UTC

No guys, of course people like the CFC low-sec Incursion group are going to haul around 25-30Bn fleets of fitted ships in carriers (Nightmares are small I heard), make sure consumables such as ammo are available as well as making sure everyone are organized, travel all across the galaxy in low/null, keep active scout eyes in the entire constellation, form up to kill hostile fleets or otherwise hellcamp them and all this for less money per hour than it takes to run Serpentis or Guristas Sanctums.

Capt NoeZ

Doomheim

Likes received: 6

#75 - 2012-04-25 10:48:00 UTC | Edited by: Capt NoeZ

CCP always goes too far when they nerf. It's either way too good or way too bad. I am disappointed that they still haven't learned how to nerf things without making them 100% worthless and unusable.

Just keep crying they will fix them, highsecbears are most of their customers afterall. and stop running them for a few weeks. If they see 0 VG sites done in weeks they'll change them, they always do ;)

Lactasia

Doomheim

Likes received: 0

#76 - 2012-04-25 10:48:42 UTC

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

Spark Progenitori wrote:

WTF they nerfed low and null incursions that is so dumb if anything they should be boosted.

Exactly, highsec should have been nerfed a little or CONCORD suspended in Incursion areas. As it stands CCP has killed a social mechanic meant to bring people together. The risk/reward was fine for lowsec in fact could have been boosted a tad, and nullsec could have used a little nerf, but highsec was what needed to be fixed but not this hard. Personally I would have nerfed payout on highsec, encouraging players to move to lowsec incursions which would have created more targets and conflicts between incursion fleets.

Interesting how CCP chooses burn what I'm sure was bunch of labor to bring Incursions into the game. Oh well at least some programmers got payed for something that won't be used anymore.

Good job CCP

Capt NoeZ

Doomheim

Likes received: 6

#77 - 2012-04-25 10:54:32 UTC | Edited by: Capt NoeZ

AstarothPrime wrote:

Jake Warbird wrote:

warping to a pos as soon as some1 enters local clearly takes so much skill that it should at least triple your income. ~~elite~~

It was content that actual players ran, and not content 'automated' like 0.0 is.


Keith Planck Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 975	#78 - 2012-04-25 11:06:28 UTC Capt NoeZ wrote: warping to a pos as soon as some1 enters local clearly takes so much skill that it should at least triple your income. ~~elite~~ It was content that actual players ran, and not content 'automated' like 0.0 is. http://mylittlefacewhen.com/f/1925/ i ******* love you man have my babies ♞

Gonzo TheGreat

Donuttown

Likes received: 21

#79 - 2012-04-25 11:16:26 UTC | Edited by: Gonzo TheGreat

xVx dreadnaught wrote:

Gonzo TheGreat wrote:

Try w-space fleets, and they die a lot more often and no one is whining Big smile

I know, I fly in W-space as well... Usually I'm one of the people hunting trying to find w-space fleets to kill.

But never have I seen one with as much bling as any serious incursion runner.

Also I wasn't whining about losing incursion fleets... I was saying that one criticism of incursions is that they are "risk free" when in reality they are not. If your logi's bail/DC/suck/grief... You can lose billions of isk

By your definition, undocking in EvE is not Risk-Free. As you can get suicide ganked any minute , DC in a mission , or just lock up and shoot someone in highsec. That is not Risk.

Also, the amount of shinies in your fleet means it is risk free. If it wasn't then you wouldn't put that much money into one ship that is about to die any minute.

Capt NoeZ wrote:

Didn't you guys say same thing that you guys said before the nerf ? that most of their customers are HS bears so they won't nerf incursions ? :)

TEMPLAR. The Initiative. 0
Aldormanndiobla TEMPLAR. The Initiative. Likes received: 0	#80 - 2012-04-25 11:16:50 UTC lol CCP, you really are a bunch of Muppets. Join ICU PUBLIC for shield fleets and incursion information. Make sure you join the mailing list to compare your ship type/fit before x'ing up for fleet, or risk getting trolled by the KAWKS.