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Possibly too far with balancing Incursions?

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Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-04-25 06:37:23 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=100764&find=unread

sign the petition to help fix the new assaults or vanguards or whatever **** YOU

♞
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-04-25 06:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Keith Planck
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Were I of an incursion-running mind, I'd invest the time and energy into figuring out the best way to capitalize on this sudden drop in interest in incursions. There's probably a lot of profit to be had for an innovative group.

The reaction seen here is exactly why The Skunkworks took such glee in griefing incursions. When CCP yanked the rug out from under us (over and over and over again) we adapted and made the best of it. We found new ways to commit acts of piracy in high sec. Here we are, barely a day into this, and the entire "community" is throwing its hands up and saying "well, that's that, incursions are dead!" I'm not normally one to look down on others, but frankly this defeatism is appalling.

For those of you who will get out there and figure out ways to restore your income level, I beg of you: don't share it with those who won't put in the effort themselves. Enjoy the contest-free incursions and reap great rewards for your effort and creativity.


is this what skunksworks has been reduced to?
babysitting the forums looking for places they can talk themselves up :/
you guys need to get back in the game and start griefing people again

♞
Slightly Degotoga
Noob Corp Inc
#43 - 2012-04-25 06:58:32 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Enjoy the contest-free incursions and reap great rewards for your effort and creativity.

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
reap great rewards for your effort and creativity.

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
great rewards

Hahahahahaha
Slightly Degotoga
Noob Corp Inc
#44 - 2012-04-25 06:59:28 UTC
Who the hell is skunkworks?
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#45 - 2012-04-25 07:06:44 UTC
really, I think blitz fleets will still be possible for the Vanguard sites. They may never be as profitable again.

But it may just mean that they are more exact in what they have in fleet.

Our group (mixed BS and cruisers) were alone in a VG system. And then an ISD player came along in a polaris frigate. Saying he was a reporter and thought it interesting that our group was the first one he'd seen doing OTA sites in the whole constellation.

"only one's brave enough" - his exact words.
Templar Nato
#46 - 2012-04-25 07:13:11 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
really, I think blitz fleets will still be possible for the Vanguard sites. They may never be as profitable again.


I have no doubt that with time people who stick with incursions will figure out the best min/ max and get the times down a little, though the issue will be keeping the dedicated members in those Communities. People were obviously Incursioning first and foremost for the money and when Incursioning is no longer equally or more attractive than other alternatives I can't see people following the Incursion train everywhere.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-04-25 07:14:23 UTC
Slightly Degotoga wrote:
Who the hell is skunkworks?


whenever there is a glitch or an exploit that allows you to kill unaware/lightlydefended/non-pvp ships
they find it and exploit it then they do a combination of complaining and acting like marytrs when its fixed

honestly the first part about what they do, figuring out glitches and exploits sounds fun and intelligent and i give them kudos for that

they just do it with the grace of a drunk Irishman

♞
IMeres
Hellfire Heavy Industries
#48 - 2012-04-25 07:21:45 UTC
First of all, I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be (haven't tried Incursions post-nerf yet). It wouldn't be the first time people have cried 'X is dead' only for X to reemerge alive and well 1-2 months afterward.

However, if once people really start trying adapt and theory-craft new setups the situation proves to really be as bad as people think, then yes, Incursions are dead.
Templar Nato
#49 - 2012-04-25 07:26:27 UTC
IMeres wrote:
First of all, I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be (haven't tried Incursions post-nerf yet). It wouldn't be the first time people have cried 'X is dead' only for X to reemerge alive and well 1-2 months afterward.

However, if once people really start trying adapt and theory-craft new setups the situation proves to really be as bad as people think, then yes, Incursions are dead.


I really hope someone does theorycraft something that works. We've definitely tried a number of things and haven't seen anything that makes a significant difference yet.
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-04-25 07:50:11 UTC
Super shiny fleet (multibillion ships), with an amazing booster ,running one heavy with only 2 logis and we could only drop vgs to 8 minutes on average. Same fleet could hit VGs pre-nerf under 3 mins between payouts. Its still doable, but most people wouldn't want to risk shiny ships for that kind of money.

However, they nerfed VGs out of the isk/hr range of getting new people interested in doing them. I mean why would you run VGs, where there is site competition (although its probably going to be pretty dead) wait times and the serious risk of ship loss to gankers/bad players/bad luck when you compare it to safe L4s?. I mean if the payout is better on L4s, why would you go for more risk and less money?
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#51 - 2012-04-25 08:06:42 UTC
Cobalt Rookits wrote:
Super shiny fleet (multibillion ships), with an amazing booster ,running one heavy with only 2 logis and we could only drop vgs to 8 minutes on average. Same fleet could hit VGs pre-nerf under 3 mins between payouts. Its still doable, but most people wouldn't want to risk shiny ships for that kind of money.

However, they nerfed VGs out of the isk/hr range of getting new people interested in doing them. I mean why would you run VGs, where there is site competition (although its probably going to be pretty dead) wait times and the serious risk of ship loss to gankers/bad players/bad luck when you compare it to safe L4s?. I mean if the payout is better on L4s, why would you go for more risk and less money?


That's my point, it's all about risk/reward

A lot of people see incursion runners as super safe and never taking any risks... But if that's the case then why was there need for a "blacklist" containing the names of everyone that ever griefed an incursion fleet that we know of.

Incursion fleets don't die often but when they do... I feel like a bit of a meme here... They die with billions of isk in loot being dropped.
Gonzo TheGreat
Donuttown
#52 - 2012-04-25 08:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gonzo TheGreat
Slightly Degotoga wrote:
Who the hell is skunkworks?


You've never run incursions have you ? or did you just start doing the great social pve experience after January 2012 ?

also , \o Skunks !

xVx dreadnaught wrote:
[quote=Cobalt Rookits]Incursion fleets don't die often but when they do... I feel like a bit of a meme here... They die with billions of isk in loot being dropped.


Try w-space fleets, and they die a lot more often and no one is whining Big smile
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#53 - 2012-04-25 08:49:08 UTC
Until Incursions are removed from High Sec or lose CONCORD protection they can never be nerfed enough, and yes lvl 4s should be next.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-04-25 08:52:39 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Until Incursions are removed from High Sec or lose CONCORD protection they can never be nerfed enough, and yes lvl 4s should be next.


other people are having more fun then me
better ***** and cry about it until CCP nerfs it

nullbears.jpg

♞
IMeres
Hellfire Heavy Industries
#55 - 2012-04-25 08:53:13 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Until Incursions are removed from High Sec or lose CONCORD protection they can never be nerfed enough, and yes lvl 4s should be next.


Actually tech (and moon mining in general) should be next.
Templar Nato
#56 - 2012-04-25 08:57:51 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Until Incursions are removed from High Sec or lose CONCORD protection they can never be nerfed enough, and yes lvl 4s should be next.


Let's do away with ISK and we can all just buy Credits from CCP.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#57 - 2012-04-25 09:12:40 UTC
Gonzo TheGreat wrote:


Try w-space fleets, and they die a lot more often and no one is whining Big smile



I know, I fly in W-space as well... Usually I'm one of the people hunting trying to find w-space fleets to kill.

But never have I seen one with as much bling as any serious incursion runner.

Also I wasn't whining about losing incursion fleets... I was saying that one criticism of incursions is that they are "risk free" when in reality they are not. If your logi's bail/DC/suck/grief... You can lose billions of isk
drdxie
#58 - 2012-04-25 09:16:39 UTC
Aryana Ucksth wrote:
C'mon CCP, the changes on Singularity were perfect, all you needed to do on top of that was reduce the payouts for nullsec to like 80%, reduce hisec to 50%, and leave lowsec at 100%. Sites would have been balanced at around 100m/hr for lowsec, armor vanguards and shield assaults could both run, and it would encourage hisec (no risk) runners and nullsec (no risk in friendly space) runners to come play in lowsec! It would have been fun!

Now nobody is going to run incursions with me anymore :(


This made me chuckle.... the null bears wanted the change, but now that it impacts them.. they come out whining..Lol

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#59 - 2012-04-25 09:37:49 UTC
I am all for change.

One of the things I said when I started doing incursions was "omg, we're making too much money" And it's been known for a long time that the nerf was coming...

But we were hoping for changes that would benefit the incursion community on a whole. Instead the actioned changes have a more negative effect on the community than the elitist blitz fleets.

If anything, the only way to actually make the sites worth doing would be to be part of an elitist blitz fleet. It's the only way you're going to get the sites done in any decent time.
Templar Nato
#60 - 2012-04-25 09:45:52 UTC
There is no such thing as a Blitz fleet anymore, since blitzing isn't possible with the changes to the mechanics.