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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

First post
Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#561 - 2012-04-12 11:14:59 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Shadowsword wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
In order to kill a hulk like how I would fit them would require 4 t2 arty Tornadoes.


Shouldn't the gankers have time for at least two arty salvoes before concord show up in a 0.5 or 0.6?

Not only that, but you would use EMP L to pop his Hulk. Baltec1 will fit his Hulk with 3 Inv. Fields II and an SSE II. He will go mining like this for a few days until he realizes how boring mining is. So he will drop an Inv. Field and put a survey scanner back into his Hulk so that he can at least see which asteroids to pick. He then will continue mining for another few days until he gets sick of constantly docking up and because his cargohold just does not do it. He then puts cargo expanders into his low-slots so that he can stay in the belt a little longer.

Can one blame him for doing it? No. But one can slap him every single time he tries to get a bit more fun out of his mining ship. Lol

I can laugh about it, but I cannot call it fair.


Silly nonsence. I mine while I mine in minecraft so I don't get boredBlink

Also I go for 1 MSE, 2x invuln, an EM resist amp, DCU II, sheild expander rigs and implants.
Severian Carnifex
#562 - 2012-04-12 11:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Severian Carnifex
Miss Whippy wrote:
Ildryn wrote:
Hulks can get 22k ehp

that's enough to deter most solo gankers....no ship should be immune to multiple gankers


You CAN do this, but then your mining yield is reduces to near that of a Covetor, so why would you use a hulk at all?



You know that that is one Tornado with 2 shots. Roll
And they can do it almost everywhere in Hi-sec.
So you are killed by one ship and you ****** your mining yield - nice one. Ugh
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#563 - 2012-04-12 12:49:17 UTC
At the end the Hulk is made for 00 or lowsec with intel and a local as pre warning.

What is needed is a high end highsec mining ship which can handle the today playstlye of suizid ganking which was no topic when the Hulk was released! Sure, it did happened back in 200x. But it wasn't that common as it is today.

The Hulk is outdated.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#564 - 2012-04-12 12:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Whitehound wrote:
For you it is not about the numbers of players. It is not only obvious from what you write but also how you write. You have no love for the people on this forum and so you have no choice but to deny it. For CCP, who are the ones doing the changes, is EVE Online only a game and Internet space ships are just Internet space ships to them. The players mean the world to CCP and it will always be important to them what the players think of their game. To them do the numbers of players matter.
Very passionate. Also ridiculously off-topic and very wrong in pretty much every way imaginable.

It still doesn't make numbers a factor in balance. You don't set the stats on a ship based on how many will be used in an engagement because you cannot know or control that — it's infinitely variable, and the usage number is determined by the balance, so you'd enter an uncontrollable feedback loop. It's very simple — see if you can follow:

If numbers were a factor in balance, the reasoning would go like this:

“We know that only one ship of this type will be used for every 100 players in a fleet. We will therefore make it very powerful so that it balances out that small number. Commonness 1/n → power factor n.”

Obviously, this is a completely backwards way of balancing ships, and no-one in their right mind does that for the simple reason that it doesn't work: what will happen is that, instead of 1/100 players using that 100:1 power ratio ship, all one hundred players will use it because the “numbers balance” has decided that it needs to be overpowered to counterbalance its low usage. Congratulations — instant imbalanced ships in instantly imbalanced numbers.

Same goes for cost. If cost was a factor in balance, the reasoning would be:

“We have set the price for ÜberRokh to 50bn ISK. This means we have to make it very powerful to balance out that high cost, so let's set the power factor to 9001”… and we all know where that reasoning leads and the balancing headache it causes (simply because you can't use cost to counterbalance power that way — it just doesn't work).

Instead, you do the opposite: “Hmm… the ÜberRokh isn't being used even though we think it's totally sweet. Maybe if we adjust the price, people will think it's a bit more worth-while. Oh wow! Look, it worked, yay!”

Jojo Jackson wrote:
At the end the Hulk is made for 00 or lowsec with intel and a local as pre warning.

What is needed is a high end highsec mining ship which can handle the today playstlye of suizid ganking which was no topic when the Hulk was released! Sure, it did happened back in 200x. But it wasn't that common as it is today.

The Hulk is outdated.
…or maybe it's just being misused. It's not so much outdated as just horribly mistreated (e.g. it's commonly not fitted with a proper tank). It's like people going from HACs to HICs for their L4s because “hey, it's a T2 cruiser that tanks even more, so it should be even better” — never mind that its purpose is something drastically different for a completely different and for a different region of space entirely.

In fact… I'll see if I can find that old F&I post where this was discussed…
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
No Handlebars.
#565 - 2012-04-12 13:14:15 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
[quote=baltec1]

When one needs to pimp a Hulk to the point where it costs like 500m ISKs only to have 28k eHP then you have not made an argument for the Hulk or against the Covetor. You have made it an argument to gank more Hulks.




[Hulk, Tanked Hulk]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Rock-Scanning Sensor Array I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hey look, 28k EHP, T2 Strips and a Survey Scanner, also

[Hulk, Tanked Hulk]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

32+k EHP, yeah, clearly both ships are extremely pimped with there T2/Meta lvl Fittings
Whitehound
#566 - 2012-04-12 13:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
For you it is not about the numbers of players. It is not only obvious from what you write but also how you write. You have no love for the people on this forum and so you have no choice but to deny it. For CCP, who are the ones doing the changes, is EVE Online only a game and Internet space ships are just Internet space ships to them. The players mean the world to CCP and it will always be important to them what the players think of their game. To them do the numbers of players matter.
Very passionate. Also ridiculously off-topic and very wrong in pretty much every way imaginable.

It is how CCP are. They will not care about what you think is good for their game's balance. You can argue about it or deny it as long as you want. It is not going to change them.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Whitehound
#567 - 2012-04-12 13:29:56 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
...
Hey look, 28k EHP, T2 Strips and a Survey Scanner, also
...
32+k EHP, yeah, clearly both ships are extremely pimped with there T2/Meta lvl Fittings

The cynicism is nice, but it does not quite work when these ships still cost you 400m ISKs.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#568 - 2012-04-12 14:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Vyr
I fit my usual Hulk for yield and cargo space with a roid scanner.

I've never once been ganked, because I mine at the keyboard and watch local and even use the d-scanner to keep an eye on things around me. I'll take that risk because tanking a Hulk at the expense of efficiency when you are doing something that disgustingly boring is a waste of time to me.

If I get ganked, that's my fault, and I accept that.
Oxylan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#569 - 2012-04-12 14:23:00 UTC
Guys belive me or not but curple months ago i use badger mk2 as bait vs kamikaze on gates, i use invuls + em resist in low slots dcu + some PDS, my bait badger mk2 was abble to survive atack form 2x armagedon + sentry drones, and this ship cost me max 7-8mil isk for t2 modules and t1 rigs, i cant understand why ship worth actualy 330mil cant stand to curple t1 fited derstroyers or even cant survive one tornado, crazy...

If it bleed we can kill it.

Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#570 - 2012-04-12 14:34:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:


You CAN do this, but then your mining yield is reduces to near that of a Covetor, so why would you use a hulk at all?


To not get blown up. A destroyer will kill said covetor while the hulk will keep on chugging rocks which makes the hulk a fair bit more isk efficient.


yes but you can replace said covetor in no time so it doesnt matter....

just playing devil's advocate, I never tank my hulk and have never been killed OR attempted a gank on.
Then again I mine where there arent ever people and when ppl show up, I move on to a system where there arent people lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#571 - 2012-04-12 15:20:38 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
if somebody probed out your grav sites two days ago they wouldn't be there today


You obviously haven't been in w-space much, have you?

Don't ban me, bro!

Sverige Pahis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#572 - 2012-04-12 15:53:19 UTC
Mining is already looking to be a lot more profitable now more than ever, stop begging for a buff and learn how to tank your ships.
Nydia Carver
Bacon Corp
#573 - 2012-04-12 16:16:08 UTC
Exhumers should be redesigned, more slots, power grid same line with tier 3 battleships. They should be able to fit 100 000 EHP tank.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#574 - 2012-04-12 16:17:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…so how many 1600mm plates do you usually fit your Iterons with?
and when was the last time you spent over 200 mill on an iteron? i mean can you buy them from then please!
Quite irrelevant.

The point is, they're both the same kind of ship: a non-combat industrial-type ship meant for one thing and one thing only (and, just to repeat that: it's not combat). You can still squeeze 30k EHP out of a Hulk, and that's fairly respectable for what it is and what it's supposed to be doing.

"They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space."

That says defense equipped in expectation of combat to me.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#575 - 2012-04-12 16:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Nydia Carver wrote:
Exhumers should be redesigned, more slots, power grid same line with tier 3 battleships. They should be able to fit 100 000 EHP tank.

No they shouldn't. But for a second let's say they should.

How many destroyers could gank it with 100k EHP? Answer: About nine or ten. Let's call it 12 just for *****.

So twelve destroyers at a cost of 2M each FITTED (24M ISK total) still gank your Hulk. You, being ever so resourceful and butthurt that 24M just destroyed your 300M ISK hulk, then come back here and claim it should have, what? A million EHP?

This is ridiculous. The whole argument is a joke. You don't even give a justification, you just make a bunch of vomitous claims that are based on unreasonable premises...

Do you want to mine AFK? Risk-free? Hmmm?

No. Just no.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Lanasak
Doomheim
#576 - 2012-04-12 16:51:10 UTC
Oxylan wrote:
i cant understand why ship worth actualy 330mil cant stand to curple t1 fited derstroyers or even cant survive one tornado, crazy...


The same way it's not a combat ship, and the same way no other ship can mine anywhere near the amount of ore that it is capable of.
Lanasak
Doomheim
#577 - 2012-04-12 16:52:59 UTC
Nydia Carver wrote:
Exhumers should be redesigned, more slots, power grid same line with tier 3 battleships. They should be able to fit 100 000 EHP tank.


While being adjusted to mine just like a tier 3 battleship (i.e. very poorly?)

Otherwise, no.
Whitehound
#578 - 2012-04-12 17:03:23 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
The same way it's not a combat ship, and the same way no other ship can mine anywhere near the amount of ore that it is capable of.

In EVE is every ship exposed to combat if you want to or not. To have ships that are particularly weak at it is what makes this a joke.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Lanasak
Doomheim
#579 - 2012-04-12 17:08:38 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Lanasak wrote:
The same way it's not a combat ship, and the same way no other ship can mine anywhere near the amount of ore that it is capable of.

In EVE is every ship exposed to combat if you want to or not. To have ships that are particularly weak at it is what makes this a joke.


No, it does not - you are supposed to avoid combat with such ships at all costs.
Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#580 - 2012-04-12 17:11:20 UTC
Has his topic been brought to the CSM already?