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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Josef Djugashvilis
#821 - 2012-03-29 08:26:41 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sould be interesting to see how many, indeed if any Goons rage quit.
This is not to have a go at the goonies - it would make more sense to stay in the game to exact revenge.

Revenge on who?

The game is moving past the Goons, CCP fired the first serious shot at them today by banning Mittens.

The days of badass internet tough guys running Eve are going to come to an end. Sony is going to bring thousands of new players into the game as CCP goes mainstream. Those players aren't going to be interested in meta gaming, Reddit, 4Chan or Something Awful.



I am no fan of the Goons and their childish name calling - aspies - sperg etc, in fact I think CCP should ban the use of these insults.
But, so long as they do not violate the eula etc thay are a part of the game.

The Goons have lost so much credibilty over this, that they may never recover.

They should look closer to home for the cause of their rage and ask themselves of mittens is a fit and proper person to lead them.

This is not a signature.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#822 - 2012-03-29 08:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
Reading the EULA/TOS closely again, I found this:

Quote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee

You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)


I also watched this panel video where this Goonswarm guy made fun of former victims by reciting some hate/tearmails.

What does this chain of events now mean for ME?
There is thousands of players all over new Eden, boasting and bragging, all those Websites about killmails. CCP emphasizing over and over again that the EVE universe is a harsh place and so on..
And then someone gets banned for not being nice to another player.
Where EXACTLY is the red line he crossed?
Mocking another player?
Publishing this mail?
Doing it on the fanfest?
Not verifying that a specific player who was griefed does not have suicidical tendencies as some have indicated?

I perfectly understand that CCP might have a serious problem, a legal problem, if they do not condemn this behaviour.

But after all, the game itself does encourage conflicts and villains.
Of course, I would never take this to a player-to-player level, but I strongly doubt that this counts for all 350k people in the game
After being provoked, it now and then might happen that some furious player sends mails ingame that contain strong language
And it will be impossible to decide what is meant or understood as a threat or insult to a character as opposed to a threat or insult to a player.
And then?

Name him a fool. Petition. Ban?
Sound metagaming.

I mean, seriously...

What exactly do you want the players to do?

I can only suggest to have a much more strict code of conduct for CSM members, but that won't solve everything.

Quote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP


The Mittani himself presented another mail in the same video where someone threatened to get him and send mercenaries after him if he does not turn over a supercap.
What makes that a legal threat and the grief-the-miner-thing not?
1Of9
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#823 - 2012-03-29 08:30:55 UTC
1Of9 wrote:
Thank you ccp.

You did the right thing, altho the CSM rules state that he cannot run for CSM again.

Plz explain why you are allowing him to run again in the future.


to pinpoint my claim:

http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf

on page 20 it says, and i quote:

Quote:


CSM representative conduct

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.




In light of this, ccp please explain why he will be able to run for CSM in the future.
Orion Guardian
#824 - 2012-03-29 08:33:51 UTC
Great democracy guys...about nearly a quarter of all votes dismissed...

Whatever CCP, CSM is a scam now.....

Well thats what Eve is known for after all, scamming allowed!
Inovy Dacella
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#825 - 2012-03-29 08:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Inovy Dacella
The Mittani did this to himself and he is now dealing with it.

The so called 1058 need to understand that votes do not make you unaccountable. Learn from your leaders mistake. Don't worship him.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#826 - 2012-03-29 08:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
1Of9 wrote:

In light of this, ccp please explain why he will be able to run for CSM in the future.



Because, you less-than-average-intelligence mammal, it has nothing to do with EULA/TOS, but is an equivalent to an out-of-court settlement.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Sam McCausland
Pax Mortis Inc.
#827 - 2012-03-29 08:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam McCausland
Funny how all the internet toughguys of goonswarm & pets, who do like to revel in their oh so mighty badassery by telling everyone else to "HTFU" and ~deal with it~ are crying worse than the hisec bears they so despise.

How about you maintain your absurd toughguy image, take your own advice and just ~deal with it~™?
You neckbeards are breaking character here and it's quite hilarious

Go ahead and unsuscribe, apart from the fact that (a) you won't go through with it and (b) CCP won't care, the rest of EVE surely will not miss you.

HTFU
Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
#828 - 2012-03-29 08:43:28 UTC
Thank you CCP for your quick action personaly I fully suport this action. and hope we can move on to premote eve in a more mature way.

As for all of you waveing your number of votes around and bashing ccp for this please....

While I agree we could now do with a reopening of elections, all the crys of "WHAT ABOUT MY VOTE" are pathetic.

Infact going on about this is just makeing things worse, I've looked though just about every news site that has mentioned this incedent and the comments are almost all negative in terms of the eve comumity as a whole, because of your insesant wineing and being dicks about this.

He was in the wrong and got the punishment he was due, if you can't deal with it get out the fire.

This is eve HTFU!
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#829 - 2012-03-29 08:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Temulkar Blaine
Some of you really need to wake up and smell the roses.

When Alexander stepped out of the game and made a statement that potentially could have had serious indeed fatal consequenses he did more than simply make a tasteless joke.

Freedom of speech is not an absolute right nor is it wiothout consequenses. The first ammendment does not apply in Europe and Iceland. EU/Icelandic law is very very very clear,

You have the right to express your opinions, culture, faith you do not have the right to harrass, discriminate against or offend.

What Alexander did in Iceland was not merely in bad taste, it was not merely the product of a petty mind without the intellegence to understand the implications of what he was saying.

What he did was more than a slight faux pas. He chose to make statements that could potentially endanger someones life. He encouraged others in a course of action that could have endangered sombodys life. He has to understand his responsibility in this.

What he did may be viewed in america as tasteless and unintellegent, under EU/Icelandic law it is potentially illegal. Let me paint a scenario for you, had sombody taken that joke and decided to do somthing about it and the worst had happened and the guy was from a EU country then Alexander would have faced a civil and criminal court case. There are multiple cases including high profile ones in the last week where people have been charged tried sentenced and jailed for drunken crass behaviour on the internet.

YOu can express yourself in game to a toon and as a toon how you wish, when you take that behaviour into the real world there are consequenses.

So US players who think its an apalling limit on peoples civil liberties and us Europeans are crazy well, we dont have guns allowed in our society for people to carry around either, hows that working out for you?
Tessle Aesis
Leones Aesis
#830 - 2012-03-29 08:56:04 UTC
EULA/TOS are for CSM too, not only for us all, if a CSM did a violation it's right to take any possible actions to punish him as well.
Captain Warp
South Sun Industries
Brave Collective
#831 - 2012-03-29 08:59:46 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sould be interesting to see how many, indeed if any Goons rage quit.
This is not to have a go at the goonies - it would make more sense to stay in the game to exact revenge.

Revenge on who?

The game is moving past the Goons, CCP fired the first serious shot at them today by banning Mittens.

The days of badass internet tough guys running Eve are going to come to an end. Sony is going to bring thousands of new players into the game as CCP goes mainstream. Those players aren't going to be interested in meta gaming, Reddit, 4Chan or Something Awful.



I am no fan of the Goons and their childish name calling - aspies - sperg etc, in fact I think CCP should ban the use of these insults.
But, so long as they do not violate the eula etc thay are a part of the game.

The Goons have lost so much credibilty over this, that they may never recover.


Our credibility backbone...
Josef Djugashvilis
#832 - 2012-03-29 09:01:02 UTC
Captain Warp wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sould be interesting to see how many, indeed if any Goons rage quit.
This is not to have a go at the goonies - it would make more sense to stay in the game to exact revenge.

Revenge on who?

The game is moving past the Goons, CCP fired the first serious shot at them today by banning Mittens.

The days of badass internet tough guys running Eve are going to come to an end. Sony is going to bring thousands of new players into the game as CCP goes mainstream. Those players aren't going to be interested in meta gaming, Reddit, 4Chan or Something Awful.



I am no fan of the Goons and their childish name calling - aspies - sperg etc, in fact I think CCP should ban the use of these insults.
But, so long as they do not violate the eula etc thay are a part of the game.

The Goons have lost so much credibilty over this, that they may never recover.


Our credibility backbone...



PreciselySmile

This is not a signature.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#833 - 2012-03-29 09:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Chicken Pizza
You morons say "10,058" like it's a large number. Do you even realize how many of those votes were probably alts? Do you know how many votes Obama alone received in the US 2008 presidential election? 69,456,897 votes. 52.92% of all of the voters in the third most populated country in the world. Kinda puts things into perspective, huh?

If Obama went live and told everyone in the US to feel free to call/mail/message a specific person and tell them to kill themselves, do you really think he would still be in office for much longer?

Most of you won't un-sub. Of the ones who do, I'm sure many, if not most, will inevitably re-sub. If you don't, good riddance.

Why don't you try looking at it conversely? Out of 59,109 votes cast, Mittani only received 10,058. That means 49,051 votes were NOT for Mittani. 83% of the votes/voters did NOT want Mittani for CSM. So while you're all bitching about how all 10,058 of you wanted Mittani to be CSM, consider the fact that the other 49,051 of us don't give a **** about what you think.

Math rules.
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#834 - 2012-03-29 09:09:11 UTC
Why is Mittens not posting in this thread?









oh wait..... Lol
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#835 - 2012-03-29 09:13:06 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
The funny thing is, CCP didnt force Mittens to resign and invalidate the votes.

He did that himself.

Well said, sir.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#836 - 2012-03-29 09:16:31 UTC
1Of9 wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
Thank you ccp.

You did the right thing, altho the CSM rules state that he cannot run for CSM again.

Plz explain why you are allowing him to run again in the future.


to pinpoint my claim:

http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf

on page 20 it says, and i quote:

Quote:


CSM representative conduct

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.




In light of this, ccp please explain why he will be able to run for CSM in the future.


This right here.

If he is allowed to campaign again for CSM, this whole shitstorm will be reactivated with a vengeance. There will be plenty of players making sure that happens. The press will be notified, players will rebel and basically CCP will have another load of bad PR heaped upon them again.

CCP needs to stand by their own rules no matter how many players threaten to rage quit. If they do quit, good riddance.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
#837 - 2012-03-29 09:17:00 UTC
Well handled CCP!

There is no excuse for doing a drunken stunt at an official life streamed panel.

I regret that we lost a good speaker of the CSM - but personal attacks at a player can't be justified in any way.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#838 - 2012-03-29 09:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Norian Lonark
Mittens didn't get my vote and he wont in the future but I disagree with the decision.

CCP previewed the slides so they were OK with the content that was shown. Obviously the presentation was going to be having a laugh and mocking what was up there. CCP also allowed for drinking to go on on the stage and allowed for questions to a drunk panel. I ask myself why they did this and the answer... because people were just getting drunk, being stupid and having a laugh.. nothing too evil or life threatening about that.

During the presentation the other CSM representatives and alliance members were laughing, so if Mittens is accountable then everyone up there on the stage should be accountable as well. No one stepped forward to protest and plead for players not to harass anyone as it was a life or death situation. The CCP representative on stage also said nothing and I understand why no one said anything because it was a joke(yes in poor taste).

This has been an example of the mob mentality at best and has really seemed like a witch hunt from the start. I suspect a large majority of protesters haven't even watched the alliance video, and the player in question wasn't made aware until the mob had caused the storm on the forums and contacting all the gaming press about this terrible incident where a player was driven to suicide.

This was a silly joke made by a drunk nerd in a wizard hat having a laugh with lots of other drunk nerds which has been blown out of all proportion and I am 100% sure that much worse gets said in game and on voice-comms each and every day.

Mittens has publicly and personally apologised, feels bad what he said and that he upset someone as well as give a large isk donation to the player in question, this IMO should have been sufficient.

Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#839 - 2012-03-29 09:17:43 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
The funny thing is, CCP didnt force Mittens to resign and invalidate the votes.

He did that himself.

Well said, sir.


Amazing how such a crucial point can be missed by so many people.Straight

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Kai Pirinha
#840 - 2012-03-29 09:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai Pirinha
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
The funny thing is, CCP didnt force Mittens to resign and invalidate the votes.

He did that himself.

Well said, sir.


Amazing how such a crucial point can be missed by so many people.Straight


It's also amazing that he seems to have accepted that he misbehaved while his fellows and followers (and goon pets :D) don't...

If you are a true follower, keep following him and accept it!

Or in other terms: deal with it.
(That really can't be said enough!)

/edit: BTW: He can be really, really ******* lucky that nobody is actually pressing charges against him, because what he did was indeed illegal in Iceland and Europe.

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