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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Della Monk
Monastery of Drakes
#661 - 2012-03-29 01:22:18 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
The Mittani should have the right to give his votes to a person of his choice.
That person should be me.

+1
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#662 - 2012-03-29 01:22:56 UTC
Madis Joringer wrote:
What I find funny is all the rage coming from GSF over this. When they grief someone in-game, they find it funny enough to keep records of all the tears, as seen on the alliance panel that started all this. They take pleasure in seeing people complain about losing their internet spaceships and tell them they shouldn't be soo upset over pixels on a computer. But when something doesn't go their way, the whole of goonswarm comes out crying foul.

Exactly. They can dish out the griefing, but they sure can't take it.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#663 - 2012-03-29 01:24:32 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.

in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin



CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.


another advice for you
you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...



You know nothing about me. You see unlike you I try very hard to be independent and as unbiased as I possibly can. I don't give a damn if people dislike Jade, read what he actually wrote and understand you ignorant kunt. The CSM should be a democracy, it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM, but not only would it be bad PR it would just be downright bad business decision. And this is also a bad decision. The CSM either is an actual body that is independent or it is a useless rubber stamp and either next month or 6 years from now another Incarna will occur because CCP doesn't listen to advice from the one body of players elected to give them advice.


the CSM never was and never will be the final ruling power in eve
thats not how you run a company or an MMO
i told you allready , in an democracy you cannot buy unlimit voting slots as long as you have the bucks for it
and my dear unbaised friend dont curse at me , thx




You are ignorant, maybe not a kunt but very very ignorant. There is a difference between independence and final ruling power. The supreme court is independent, but isn't considered a ruling power. CCP interfering with the operation of the CSM when the CSM announced it would be meeting to discuss the situation interferes with it's independence. Also do you have a reading defecit?

I said

it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM
Fahzja
Envirocore
#664 - 2012-03-29 01:27:31 UTC
All of this brings back grade school memories.

A student fails a subject, he blames the teacher...
NiM Cal
Supernatural Penguins
#665 - 2012-03-29 01:28:14 UTC
In today's politically correct, marketing driven world, where the press are desperate for some reason to portray vidya games in a bad light, CCP really had no other option. For what it's worth, society does need to HTFU and stop pandering to bads, but CCP can't change that, they have to play by the rule book which is getting thicker every day thanks to ...lawyers.

He of all people should've known how this would end. The "I was drunk" defence was about as legit as OJ getting off. Should've gone down in flames fighting the power that is political correctness and stayed true to his words, but alas lawyers are not creatures renown for having spine~

Nelson: Ha Ha! I guess sums it up.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#666 - 2012-03-29 01:29:38 UTC
I'm really happy to say Mittens has won my utmost respect after listening to state of the goonion, I do understand now why he is what he is inside the goons, where we can clearly extrapolate that in a land of blind the one with an eye is king into in a land of irrationals the one with the brain is king, Mittens is clearly a king.

He was objective enough to understand what he did and how serious given the context of what he did, repent, and realize he was in the wrong and pretty much all that was decided was actually deserved.

I do agree that the PR/Marketing blog was a bit too much on him, they could have phrased it a little bit less emphatically on blaming him for the next steps.

In the end, Mittens has won my utmost respect for his posture in state of the goonion regarding this issue.
lol fourm troll
Doomheim
#667 - 2012-03-29 01:32:50 UTC
so...... when will jita 4-4 undock burn, i want to enjoy the showBig smile
and watch so many goons lose sec status for no reason, a cause, but no reason
Koby Botick
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#668 - 2012-03-29 01:33:09 UTC
The joke is that after having knowledge of a suizide-endangered player that is unable to cope with stress caused ingame, CCP is actually in the moral dilemma that they would need to terminate HIS account in order to prevent any escalation. They have brought themselves into a very very very bad spot.

If the dude in question can't take it anymore and actually goes through with it, then CCP will bleed for not having prevented it after being clearly aware of the situation.

Very very stupid CCP.
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#669 - 2012-03-29 01:33:15 UTC
Quote:




You are ignorant, maybe not a kunt but very very ignorant. There is a difference between independence and final ruling power. The supreme court is independent, but isn't considered a ruling power. CCP interfering with the operation of the CSM when the CSM announced it would be meeting to discuss the situation interferes with it's independence. Also do you have a reading defecit?

I said

it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM


ccp is an pravate held company, not a state
the CSm was fine with mittens stayin within CSM 7 , CCP was not so they overrule
all as we both agree is within CCP´s power

also, as you may already noticed , English isnt my first language , i may have things misunderstood , for this i apology

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#670 - 2012-03-29 01:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Swearte Widfarend
Having done some reading courtesy of #tweetfleet members (CSM White Paper) I am now aware that any breach of EULA/TOS eliminates a player's option to participate in the CSM.

I still believe that CCP may need to consider that more than 3,000 NON-GOONSWARM accounts voted for the Mittani, and may need to evaluate having a special election to fill the now-vacant 14th seat.

Based on the reading of the TOS/EULA, The Mittani (as a character) has broken it. I guess a 30 day ban may be appropriate, although I'd like to know what CCP's track record on "threatening" characters is for ban duration, and if they are prepared for the oncoming ****storm of petitions for "threatening" behavior.

With the impending beginning of CSM 7, the choice of a 30 day ban became interesting, because The Mittani can't log in, and so it becomes an easy excuse to disenfranchise a significant portion of the players who voted in the CSM elections (for the record, I did not vote for The Mittani with any of my accounts). Alexander Gianturco did not resign independently, and CCP Games has turned the entire CSM voting process into a sham, unless they plan on wiping the slate clean and running a new election.

Alexander Gianturco did not resign from CSM 7. His post in these forums states clearly that he would be "just a member of the CSM, not the Chairman":
The Mittani wrote:
With CSM7's term beginning on April 4th, I now exercise my right as the winner of the election with 10,058 votes to decline the office of Chairman. It will then be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed regarding the Chair. As a member of the CSM without a title, what I do as the leader of Goonswarm will no longer unfairly reflect on the CSM as a whole - leaving me and my people free to do as we please without needing to consider corporate, political, or media ramifications every time we make a **** joke, offend someone, or sell a supercap made of vapor.


If CCP does not allow Alexander Gianturco (aka The Mittani) to maintain a seat on CSM 7, then they might as well throw the entire concept of a democratically elected player representative group out the window - because that is what they have done by removing him from CSM 7.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#671 - 2012-03-29 01:35:54 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:




You are ignorant, maybe not a kunt but very very ignorant. There is a difference between independence and final ruling power. The supreme court is independent, but isn't considered a ruling power. CCP interfering with the operation of the CSM when the CSM announced it would be meeting to discuss the situation interferes with it's independence. Also do you have a reading defecit?

I said

it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM


ccp is an pravate held company, not a state
the CSm was fine with mittens stayin within CSM 7 , CCP was not so they overrule
all as we both agree is within CCP´s power

also, as you may already noticed , English isnt my first language , i may have things misunderstood , for this i apology



So CCP is reverting the CSM back to a useless PR/marketing tool rather than a player advocacy group. Cool beans.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Raiykjab
Federal Navy Academy
#672 - 2012-03-29 01:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Raiykjab
Two step wrote:
I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.

More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page


This just show the integrity of the ppl representing us at CSM, 10058 yeah sure, we all know those guys probably voted with their 5 accounts.

Bill Clinton was also elected by a majority, but kinda resigned after the sex scandal, same for DSK the boss of the FMI, this dude was favorite for the next French presidentials and now is a nobody. If you represent something and are given powers you gotta show the exemple, or you are out, that's how it works in a democracy.

Seeing so many CSM members objecting about the decision is quiet disturbing, and just prove that I should get myself more accounts the next time I go vote to make it count.

Honestly yours

Raiykjab

Eve has miners?!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#673 - 2012-03-29 01:38:36 UTC
Raiykjab wrote:
Two step wrote:
I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.

More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page


This just show the integrity of the ppl representing us at CSM, 10058 yeah sure, we all know those guys probably voted with their 5 accounts.

Bill Clinton was also elected by a majority, but kinda resigned after the sex scandal, same for DSK the boss of the FMI, this dude was favorite for the next French presidentials and now is a nobody. If you represent something and are given powers you gotta show the exemple, or you are out, that's how it works in a democracy.

Seeing so many CSM members objecting about the decision is quiet disturbing, and just prove that I should get myself more accounts the next time I go vote to make it count.

Honestly yours

Raiykjab


1) 5 accounts are 5 accounts - they are paid for.
2) Bill Clinton served two full terms, he did not resign.
3) CSM members object to their opinions being discarded and CCP throwing their chairman under the bus.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Qusal II
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#674 - 2012-03-29 01:38:45 UTC
With all things that happend this is a good decision of CCP, the most correct way to handle this, this shows noone has special treatment even if your chariman of csm!

And people should not feel sad about their votes it is something which you used, and should use every year!
This reminds me of a time when President K got shot, the 2nd in command should just take over like back then. In this case Two Step which came in 2nd in votes, he was one of the more active members of the CSM6 council and i trust him completely for representing ALL eve-players.

And next year people can use their votes again to get The Mittani reelected. Maybe even with 15000 votes!
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#675 - 2012-03-29 01:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
Kalunmaar wrote:
If our votes are going to count for nothing, why hold an election in the first place?

Exactly !!!
With 10,000 votes out of how many account holders? It seems that most subscribers care absolutely nothing at all about the CSM. Just get rid of it already...


Madis Joringer wrote:
...You vote for a sociopath, you get a sociopath. Deal with it. If you want to blame someone for your vote not 'counting', blame Mittens. He is ultimately the reason for his own removal. He broke the rules, not CCP.
And those people threatening to cancel their accounts over this? Good riddance! Eve will survive without you, and honestly would probably be better off. You shouldn't be soo upset over internet spaceship politics. Its a game folks.

Right on !!!
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#676 - 2012-03-29 01:40:38 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Axhind wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Axhind wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
I applaud CCP for this decision, I will explain why before I am accused of being a political tool.

In the EU we have clear laws about behaviour on the internet and in public that differ dramatically from the US. in America your right to freedom of speech is guarenteed by the first ammendment. In Europe freedom of speech is limited by the law in ways your country does not it seems understand. Before you start to call us all fascists as has been said on some threads, think about the history of the last century in Europe and ask yourself why we have limited freedom of speech to protect against hate.

In recent months in the UK in paticular the profile of cyber offences, cyber bullying, trolling has been very much in the public eye. Cases of teenage suicides after a message on a social networking site like this example http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-14239702 made national headlines.

EU law protects people from offensive behaviour on the internet and does not allow the anononymity of the web protect offendors when the use the internet as a medium to bully or spread hate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16144640 people have been given sentences lasting into years for offences carried out in the internet.

Perhaps the timing of this incident was most ill fated for Alexander, In the last month we have had a high profile case of a celebrity being targetted by a cyber bully and anti social behavior on the internet has been on the news and on prime time TV and questions have been asked in paliament. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17399027 . Even worse timing wise is the very high profile case of a student jailed for a drunken abusive rant on twitter about a seriously ill footballer that aroused comdemnation from all quarters. The student was jailed in the last week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17434587

I sympathise with americans who assume protection from the first ammendment gives you the right to say what you want be as offensive as you want on the internet press whatever. This is not the case in the rest of the world and certainly not in Europe and Alexander maybe forgot that in Iceland. Perhaps those members of the CSM who have objected to this decision need to consider this issue and see the wider impolications of this act and also the different international interpretatinos of both what is legal and what is decent and acceptable.

Again I would actually like to stress this is not a political post not a wum, This is actually somthing very good that CCP has done in sending out a clear message that certain behaviour will not be tolerated. It sucks for Alexander yes Im sure but he will bounce back from it if he wants to.



As another European I can freely call you fascist dog. Europe has benefits but fascist **** laws for censorship of speech are not it. At the same time as you have to ***** foot around serious issues we all get butt raped by our dear politicians but hey they are at least preventing us to say thing they don't like. This is one thing where europe should take after US instead of introducing just more and more idiotic censorship laws.


clearly I disagree with you, so does the law fortunatly, did you think the muamba sentence was unfair then?



OFC it was. Who cares what some dude writes? Far better to allow saying few things that might make someone upset than to start banning anything that might make someone upset. For anything you say there will be someone who will give you **** for it.

UK especially is ******** to hell and back with it's laws about speech. Even more than germany and france who are both already bad enough with the laws controlling what people can say about ww2.

It never ends. Just more and more things get censored until you will not be allowed to open your mouth for the fright of breaking some idiotic law.


Or maybe we start treating each other with more consideration and respect, maybe we start to look past issues of gender, race sexuality, etc and actually learn to empathise.Freedom or speech is not without consequenses nor is it an absolute right in the EU. When I look at our past its pretty obvious why these principles are enshrined in European law or can you not see that?



Oh yes. Our past really benefited from that. Like today. Benefits of free speech are much higher than drawbacks of someone getting their panties in a twist over some internet talk.
Censorship and repressive regimes in Europe have all been very much in favour of censorship and against speech. You are just latest one to fall for the bullshit arguments. Think of the children, evil terrorists and so on...
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#677 - 2012-03-29 01:40:50 UTC
Andski wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:




You are ignorant, maybe not a kunt but very very ignorant. There is a difference between independence and final ruling power. The supreme court is independent, but isn't considered a ruling power. CCP interfering with the operation of the CSM when the CSM announced it would be meeting to discuss the situation interferes with it's independence. Also do you have a reading defecit?

I said

it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM


ccp is an pravate held company, not a state
the CSm was fine with mittens stayin within CSM 7 , CCP was not so they overrule
all as we both agree is within CCP´s power

also, as you may already noticed , English isnt my first language , i may have things misunderstood , for this i apology



So CCP is reverting the CSM back to a useless PR/marketing tool rather than a player advocacy group. Cool beans.


no they just axed the one guy who broke the rule (by his own words ) and go on
bussiness as usual

there was no outcry when they axed the dutch girl for ?NDA?

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
kdsjfjhiskhfs
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#678 - 2012-03-29 01:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Inappropriate comment removed. Spitfire
Myz Toyou
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#679 - 2012-03-29 01:42:56 UTC
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:
The last thing you ever want to do in EVE-Online is give goons & friends a cause to rally behind. We saw this most recently in the Branch invasion, which took under twenty days to completion, and perhaps most famously in the legendary threadnaught.

Unfortunately, we have a cause to rally behind.


You sound like old BOB, sad Roll
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#680 - 2012-03-29 01:43:21 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Andski wrote:

So CCP is reverting the CSM back to a useless PR/marketing tool rather than a player advocacy group. Cool beans.


no they just axed the one guy who broke the rule (by his own words ) and go on
bussiness as usual

there was no outcry when they axed the dutch girl for ?NDA?


No, they let the CSM come to consensus on the issue then overruled them when they made the "wrong" decision. For the CSM to have any legitimacy other than a PR tool CCP need to either respect their decisions or make it adequately clear a decision is not theirs to make. Not this worst of both worlds crap.