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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Li Ter
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#621 - 2012-03-29 00:55:50 UTC
FalconX Blast wrote:
Is this the first time an out-of-game slight has been bridged into being a violation of a software license agreement? That is an interesting precedent in itself, that CCP is going to police all of our thoughts and words from out-of-game now... time to update point 5 on the TOS, something like "Yes, we CCP are responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site." would be more accurate with these recent actions CCP is taking.


it was broadcast via EVE TV..... which CCP control, which means the ToS/EULA is applicable since its a CCP service
kdsjfjhiskhfs
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2012-03-29 00:56:05 UTC
Csm election System is like russian's election system. Just shot/poison opposition
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#623 - 2012-03-29 00:56:25 UTC
Quote:



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


hate to be the bringer of bad news to you
but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol
and 2, CSM was never a democracy

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Victor Twenty
The Scorpion Brothers
#624 - 2012-03-29 00:56:29 UTC
Some serious spaceship business, but in reality is all about what sells subscriptions.
Della Monk
Monastery of Drakes
#625 - 2012-03-29 00:56:33 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Well seeing as the CSM members posted seconds after this thread went live either they knew it was coming or they just got very lucky indeed. My money is they were told what the decision was in advance.

Seleene wrote:
This was an unexpected development and we are now working toward resolving both the issue of Mitten's 10k voters and figuring out the process for CSM 7 Chair. Straight
Taihbea
Doomheim
#626 - 2012-03-29 00:57:39 UTC
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.


Then CCP should have told them this?


Yeah just like stating on HOT coffee cups that they are HOT...

Dumbfucks.
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#627 - 2012-03-29 00:59:03 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


hate to be the bringer of bad news to you
but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol
and 2, CSM was never a democracy



Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history.
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#628 - 2012-03-29 01:00:13 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


hate to be the bringer of bad news to you
but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol
and 2, CSM was never a democracy



Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history.

and that is exactly relevant to my post how ?

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#629 - 2012-03-29 01:00:20 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
[You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?

You cannot be "independent" of the need to have the interests of Eve Online and its player community at heart.

The real problem with Alexander Gianturco is he didn't really give a monkeys about the Eve online community - he only cared for SA and goonswarm.

But regardless CCP have acted fairly in punishing him quite leniently really. Many players would have liked to see him permabanned for what he did so a 30 day ban is a slap on the wrists. The real punishment has been delivered to goonswarm itself whose players have wasted their votes, but to be honest, goonswarm probably deserve this punishment as well given their appalling behaviour on the forums over this incident.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
bestposteringoonfleet
Perkone
Caldari State
#630 - 2012-03-29 01:01:02 UTC
You can take away my CSM leader... but you cannot take away our ability to ruin your game.

TwistedPirateTwistedPirateTwistedPirateTwistedTwistedTwistedPiratePiratePirate
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#631 - 2012-03-29 01:01:14 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


hate to be the bringer of bad news to you
but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol
and 2, CSM was never a democracy



Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history.

and that is exactly relevant to my post how ?



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
Victyrael
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#632 - 2012-03-29 01:01:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Victyrael
This was a poor knee-jerk reaction to what happened. Sure, what was said was wrong but CCP you have, by your decision, disenfranchised and made clear that the interests of the people, you supposedly value , who cast over 1000 votes are to be ignored.

You have deprived everyone of the abilities and experience Alex can - and has - brought to the table. Sanctions are necessary here to prevent this happening again, but your course of action is incorrect. You cannot create an environment as you did at the Fanfest panel and not expect some issues. You cannot ignore your own failings in any event. You cannot disenfranchise your players that fund your business.

"CCP delivers" - the wrong results.
Koby Botick
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#633 - 2012-03-29 01:01:53 UTC
Li Ter wrote:
it was broadcast via EVE TV..... which CCP control, which means the ToS/EULA is applicable since its a CCP service


There is NOTHING in the TOS about inciting others to do something being actionable. CCP unilaterally, without discussion decided to throw away 1/6th of all the voters and claim it does violate the TOS. We can all agree or disagree that it was unacceptable, it doesn't change the fact that it was NOT AGAINST THE TOS. CCP decided to destroy this election. We shall see how happy this will make them in the long term.
Mortuus Adamo
Wipe Corp.
#634 - 2012-03-29 01:02:47 UTC
bestposteringoonfleet wrote:
You can take away my CSM leader... but you cannot take away our ability to ruin your game.

TwistedPirateTwistedPirateTwistedPirateTwistedTwistedTwistedPiratePiratePirate


CCP should permaban all goons.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#635 - 2012-03-29 01:03:37 UTC

This is sad.....

I think the banning is appropriate to send a message to Alliance Panel Leaders that their actions can have consequences if they go to far.

At the same time, he was enormously helpful to CSM 6, and I think he'll be enormously helpful to CSM 7 too!!!!! Don't remove him from the CSM!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's too much!!!

Li Ter
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#636 - 2012-03-29 01:03:44 UTC
kdsjfjhiskhfs wrote:
Ignore 10058 people is just pure lol what a shame.

I would like remind you 10058 x 15 usd x 12 months =~ 1.800.000 usd are you forget what happen when you ignore eve players (u know its called incarna)



un sub then? lets see all 10058 of you unsub......
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#637 - 2012-03-29 01:03:48 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
[You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?

You cannot be "independent" of the need to have the interests of Eve Online and its player community at heart.

The real problem with Alexander Gianturco is he didn't really give a monkeys about the Eve online community - he only cared for SA and goonswarm.

But regardless CCP have acted fairly in punishing him quite leniently really. Many players would have liked to see him permabanned for what he did so a 30 day ban is a slap on the wrists. The real punishment has been delivered to goonswarm itself whose players have wasted their votes, but to be honest, goonswarm probably deserve this punishment as well given their appalling behaviour on the forums over this incident.





I don't necessarily disagree with his 30 day ban, and yes I fully agree that it is well withing CCPs right to do it. But there are rights and there is intellegence. This isn't the most intellegent process. CCP could have and should have told the CSM that due to Mittens actions they believe it is best if he isn't on the CSM this year. THE CSM should have made this announcement.


Are they a rubber stamp or are they an actual useful body?
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#638 - 2012-03-29 01:04:43 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


hate to be the bringer of bad news to you
but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol
and 2, CSM was never a democracy



Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history.

and that is exactly relevant to my post how ?



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.


in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#639 - 2012-03-29 01:05:33 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Quote:



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


hate to be the bringer of bad news to you
but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol
and 2, CSM was never a democracy



Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history.

and that is exactly relevant to my post how ?



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.



Yeah it was made partially in response to the developer corruption scandal that involved T20 and Band of Brothers alliance and make sure the players had oversight to ensure that could never happen again.

The irony is we almost had a situation where Mittani was boasting of being in control of developers and influence within CCP and replaying this corrupt old scenario again. Had Mittani not been appropriately punished over his behaviour at Fanfest many many players and many external media sites would have considered he was being given unfair treatment that other players could not expect.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2012-03-29 01:06:26 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?


If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later.

That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations.

And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.