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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#381 - 2012-03-28 23:43:50 UTC
Kingston Black wrote:
This is a regrettable affair perhaps goonswarm could get another member to represent the 10k goon votes.

May I suggest Kartoon as a replacement?


this

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#382 - 2012-03-28 23:43:51 UTC
Joepopo wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:
So what goons are saying is that 10058 votes gives people the right to break rules/laws/ethics amirite?


You're a NPC alt. Get out.


You're a Goon. You should get out as well!

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
The Crimson Invaider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#383 - 2012-03-28 23:43:52 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:

Only part of the TOS that i'm seeing relevant here.

Quote:
You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game. You may report any instances of such behavior to CCP. CCP will investigate and take such measures as CCP, in its sole judgment, determines are reasonable under the circumstances. CCP does not guarantee that you will not encounter behavior of others that you may view as insulting, demeaning, offensive, threatening or harassing. You assume all risk associated with playing the Game, and CCP assumes no responsibility for the conduct of any other players, and shall not be liable to you or any other person for their conduct.


And that says that CCP will not be responsible.

Quote:
You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.


Arguably :

Quote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.


But he actually didn't THREATEN the individual himself. He said something stupid about other peoples choosing to do so of their own volition. Which should be handled on a case by case basis.


I understand CCP is all powerful in this matter. But seriously...

Removing him from the CSM is out of line.


Thanks for clearing that up. CCP ****** up.
Tsalaroth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2012-03-28 23:43:53 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Wibla wrote:
I demand a re-election for CSM7, as CCP has de-facto invalidated a big chunk of the votes cast.



you are just a goon... your vote/opionion does not count... run along pubbieRoll


nice 5th page snippah!


What about mine? And no, this isn't a goon alt.

No matter who did what, I do not like the fact that 10,000 votes ceased to matter. They either need to bone up and reverse that bit - maybe claim it was a typo, we'll never tell - or let those who voted for him cast a new vote.
Daelorn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#385 - 2012-03-28 23:44:12 UTC
Are you guys being ******* serious right now?

I'm all for harsh EVE, nasty language, I don't care about racial slurs or anything of that nature. But basically telling a player to kill himself is over the ******* line. All of you butthurt over your ******* votes are idiots when we're talking about a person's real life here, in the end this is all a stupid internet spaceship game. I don't care if you tell a person to go kill themselves IRL to a person that isn't suicidal and would never do it, it is still over the line.

CCP handled this perfectly in my opinion and I applaud Mittani for what he did in stepping down and apologizing too, but still he needs to be punished.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#386 - 2012-03-28 23:44:17 UTC
**** move, IMO.

Mittens needed a most severe smack to the face, but I agree with the other comments that over 10,000 people were disenfranchised by this turn of events and that's going to have repercussions on every future CSM, who, by the way CCP, saved your ass last year.

I didn't vote for Mittens, as I wanted my vote to be used to ensure the success of another candidate which subsequently got on, but I wholeheartedly believe Mittens kicking ass was beneficial for the game.

What this needed was a hammer to the kneecaps, what you gave us was a bullet to the head.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#387 - 2012-03-28 23:44:20 UTC
If he said all this before running for CSM would he have had 10,000 votes?

You bet your horrible fat ass he wouldn't have.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Harold Tuphlos
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#388 - 2012-03-28 23:44:23 UTC
BURN HISEC

10,058
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#389 - 2012-03-28 23:44:32 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
The only appropriate solution is to either leave Mittani on the council or start a new election. Disenfranchising a vocal group of players with 10,058 - 20% of the voting base - accounts between them is never, ever acceptable.


no its only 3% of the voting base!

get over your self goon...

seriously!

one year and then its all mittenz again... yayRoll




Nope. Representation or bust - that's the way we roll.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#390 - 2012-03-28 23:44:56 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
CCP,

Can you confirm you were also holding everyone who just happened to be on camera at fanfest accountable to the TOS/EULA? Family members / spouses who don't play the game .. the press .. ?

I am struggling to see how you can possibly think your terms of service apply to what someone says out of game, on camera when it is YOU and your providers who choice what is broadcast and when.

There is absolutely NO legal precedent for it.


What legal precedence do they need? None!

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#391 - 2012-03-28 23:45:18 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
If he said all this before running for CSM would he have had 10,000 votes?

You bet your horrible fat ass he wouldn't have.


He might not have reached the 10,000 mark, but he would still have more votes than any other CSM delegate. hth

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#392 - 2012-03-28 23:45:21 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
The only appropriate solution is to either leave Mittani on the council or start a new election. Disenfranchising a vocal group of players with 10,058 - 20% of the voting base - accounts between them is never, ever acceptable.


no its only 3% of the voting base!

get over your self goon...

seriously!

one year and then its all mittenz again... yayRoll




AFAIK accounts that have action against em are not allowed for CSM

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#393 - 2012-03-28 23:45:27 UTC
This is not an acceptable solution.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Taihbea
Doomheim
#394 - 2012-03-28 23:45:34 UTC
Acadia Reina wrote:
Atomic Option wrote:
Total overreaction on all sides.


The only person reacting appropriately (by not reacting) is The Wis himself, the noble miner "victim" whose opinion does not appear to have been consulted.

People always tell each other to kill themselves in online games. It comes with the territory and anyone who takes it seriously is a douche. That it happened in public doesn't make it worse or different.

If you can't take a joke, **** you.



This is exactly right. This entire storm is apparently built entirely on principle, taking no account of the reality of the situation. The supposed victim is nonplussed and generally indifferent. The apology was made and restitution given. Situation solved.

Everything I see now against The Mittani is just meta-gaming by his enemies. Maybe it will be effective, but it's also disingenuous to The Wis and to the supposed ethical right that so many people are chest-beating about.

People and CCP need to HTFU.


So you must be a super alien or something cause you're a pony sissy crying on interwebz.

By your own (very good by the way) advice... HTFU!
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#395 - 2012-03-28 23:46:03 UTC
Hi CCP, while I appreciate that when all is said and done you get to set the rules, I'd appreciate if you didn't try to spin the decision to remove The Mittani from the CSM as an inevitable result of his ban. Your own whitepaper clearly states:

Quote:

also, players with a serious warning22 or ban on any account in their possession can be excluded from candidate eligibility. however, in-game behavior, regardless of play style, will never be a criterion for candidacy unless the rules of the eula and/or tos are violated.


Note the use of "can" not "will" or "must". Trying to portray this decision as unavoidable rather than a choice you have made smacks of cowardice and removes any confidence I had in your promise to not regress to the bad CCP of old.
SolusLunes
LEGITIMATE SCIENTIFIC CORPORATION
#396 - 2012-03-28 23:46:09 UTC
Hulemand wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
CCP,

Can you confirm you were also holding everyone who just happened to be on camera at fanfest accountable to the TOS/EULA? Family members / spouses who don't play the game .. the press .. ?

I am struggling to see how you can possibly think your terms of service apply to what someone says out of game, on camera when it is YOU and your providers who choice what is broadcast and when.

There is absolutely NO legal precedent for it.


What legal precedence do they need? None!


CCP gives precisely no fucks.
xXv1c10usXx
Alchemy Corp
#397 - 2012-03-28 23:46:11 UTC
I am thinking their basis for their decision is total horseshit. Even better than replying here, if people to speak where is hurts corporations the most, in their revenue stream.

how about the removal of $1.8M US in revenue from their P&L. That would be a strong statement.

All persons that had their votes stripped unsub and let CCP feel that pain for a bit and have to layoff some developers and have the game go the SH!T. Oh wait, it is already headed there, so that $1.8M will escalate fairly quickly in to some sizable loss of revenue.
Lakshata Chawla
State War Academy
Caldari State
#398 - 2012-03-28 23:46:30 UTC
At this rate, all the goons will unsub, This is the best decision CCP has ever made.

I still wish Mittani could stay on CSM, he WAS a productive member.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#399 - 2012-03-28 23:46:30 UTC
Two step wrote:
I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.

More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page


This.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lotta Mullarkey
Lotta Monkey Business
#400 - 2012-03-28 23:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lotta Mullarkey
May O'Neez wrote:


Now I perfectly aggree that it is a bad news and his value in CSM was very great, that makes everyone in a very unpleasant mess. But we should also consider that CCP had no choice but enforce rules like these...


CCP did however have a choice weather or not to continue supplying alcohol during the alliance panel even though it was clear that half of the panellists were plastered. They failed in their responsibility to help prevent this.

I’d go along with their decision were it not for the fact that they are removing a CSM from his position while hiding behind their EULA/TOS themselves instead of admitting that they were part responsible. Mittens apologised for what has happened. I think now is the time for CCP to do the same if they want to justify their decision. Otherwise it’s an epic fail on their part.