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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

First post First post
Author
Ni Cho
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2012-03-28 23:31:59 UTC
Andski wrote:
Krutoj, a CSM 6 alternate who was temp-banned for RMT, was not removed from the council.



I am just quoting this because it is a supremely valid point, and it needs to be repeated.

Endlessly
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#342 - 2012-03-28 23:32:33 UTC
Rick Maken wrote:
Storm in a tea cup, not a day goes by when I don't hear the words kill yourself in University or online.

Sperging publords making a massive shitstorm over literally nothing have ruined the CSM, and potentially ruined the game.

Literally a few people have managed to kick up enough **** to get a bunch of idiots bandwagoning.

Thanks guys.


Yeah, Mittani and Test CEO managed to do exactly that for the last 12 months or so...
Intigo
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#343 - 2012-03-28 23:32:46 UTC
Revii Lagoon wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/0rsuC.jpg


.

(you misspelled virginity, though)

hydra provail

Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#344 - 2012-03-28 23:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Axhind
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
I applaud CCP for this decision, I will explain why before I am accused of being a political tool.

In the EU we have clear laws about behaviour on the internet and in public that differ dramatically from the US. in America your right to freedom of speech is guarenteed by the first ammendment. In Europe freedom of speech is limited by the law in ways your country does not it seems understand. Before you start to call us all fascists as has been said on some threads, think about the history of the last century in Europe and ask yourself why we have limited freedom of speech to protect against hate.

In recent months in the UK in paticular the profile of cyber offences, cyber bullying, trolling has been very much in the public eye. Cases of teenage suicides after a message on a social networking site like this example http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-14239702 made national headlines.

EU law protects people from offensive behaviour on the internet and does not allow the anononymity of the web protect offendors when the use the internet as a medium to bully or spread hate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16144640 people have been given sentences lasting into years for offences carried out in the internet.

Perhaps the timing of this incident was most ill fated for Alexander, In the last month we have had a high profile case of a celebrity being targetted by a cyber bully and anti social behavior on the internet has been on the news and on prime time TV and questions have been asked in paliament. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17399027 . Even worse timing wise is the very high profile case of a student jailed for a drunken abusive rant on twitter about a seriously ill footballer that aroused comdemnation from all quarters. The student was jailed in the last week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17434587

I sympathise with americans who assume protection from the first ammendment gives you the right to say what you want be as offensive as you want on the internet press whatever. This is not the case in the rest of the world and certainly not in Europe and Alexander maybe forgot that in Iceland. Perhaps those members of the CSM who have objected to this decision need to consider this issue and see the wider impolications of this act and also the different international interpretatinos of both what is legal and what is decent and acceptable.

Again I would actually like to stress this is not a political post not a wum, This is actually somthing very good that CCP has done in sending out a clear message that certain behaviour will not be tolerated. It sucks for Alexander yes Im sure but he will bounce back from it if he wants to.



As another European I can freely call you fascist dog. Europe has benefits but fascist **** laws for censorship of speech are not it. At the same time as you have to pussy foot around serious issues we all get butt raped by our dear politicians but hey they are at least preventing us to say thing they don't like. This is one thing where europe should take after US instead of introducing just more and more idiotic censorship laws.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#345 - 2012-03-28 23:33:13 UTC
I understand the player broke the rules and was banned for it.

But seriously CCP, you realise you're punishing the rest of us by replacing him with the Riverini right?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Atomic Option
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#346 - 2012-03-28 23:33:32 UTC
Total overreaction on all sides.


The only person reacting appropriately (by not reacting) is The Wis himself, the noble miner "victim" whose opinion does not appear to have been consulted.

People always tell each other to kill themselves in online games. It comes with the territory and anyone who takes it seriously is a douche. That it happened in public doesn't make it worse or different.

If you can't take a joke, **** you.
k'ryn
Doomheim
#347 - 2012-03-28 23:33:59 UTC
Kerensky White wrote:
What's more dangerous than thousands of angry, motivated goons.


nothing.
Vinny Grinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#348 - 2012-03-28 23:34:27 UTC
Ni Cho wrote:
Andski wrote:
Krutoj, a CSM 6 alternate who was temp-banned for RMT, was not removed from the council.



I am just quoting this because it is a supremely valid point, and it needs to be repeated.

Endlessly


Not empty quoting.
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#349 - 2012-03-28 23:34:40 UTC
The "funny" (sad, actually) things about raging of 10k people is that:
- these players have certainly lots of alts,
- the accounts are probably paid by PLEX therefore don't have any actual money value for a big bunch of them,
- the people tend to easily forget that CSM members are representatives, therefore are less tolerated of commiting errors

/rant

Now I perfectly aggree that it is a bad news and his value in CSM was very great, that makes everyone in a very unpleasant mess. But we should also consider that CCP had no choice but enforce rules like these, and I'm pretty sure they are aware of the consequences (wouldn't surprise me that we forecome emergency meeting and other not-dev blogs).

I also aggree to the analysis that since fanfest players are being watched on, this is both good and BAD. Realtime streaming sucks. Please don't do realtime diffusions when you can't face the consequences, CCP !
Townsend Harris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#350 - 2012-03-28 23:34:55 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
I applaud CCP for this decision, I will explain why before I am accused of being a political tool.

In the EU we have clear laws about behaviour on the internet and in public that differ dramatically from the US. in America your right to freedom of speech is guarenteed by the first ammendment. In Europe freedom of speech is limited by the law in ways your country does not it seems understand. Before you start to call us all fascists as has been said on some threads, think about the history of the last century in Europe and ask yourself why we have limited freedom of speech to protect against hate.
:words:

Again I would actually like to stress this is not a political post not a wum, This is actually somthing very good that CCP has done in sending out a clear message that certain behaviour will not be tolerated. It sucks for Alexander yes Im sure but he will bounce back from it if he wants to.

1- You're a political tool
2- Please explain how remarks made live via microphone can by CYBER bullying?
3- Does the EU Have laws against bullying? Are they EU Wide
4- I take back #1 you're just a tool.
Dirk Culliford
Zero G Universal Enterprises
#351 - 2012-03-28 23:35:30 UTC
All aboard the fail train, destination unknown! X
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#352 - 2012-03-28 23:35:31 UTC
Bullshit. The CSM is not space democracy: it is a customer advocacy group. CCP decided--wisely--that due to its disparate customer base the best way to have a representative sample of their customers was to: get a representative sample of their customers.

I used my vote not for political purposes, but as a business transaction: The Mittani was going to make my $15/month go further than anyone else (only Seleene would come close).

My problem is that, as a customer, CCP promised me a voice in their customer advocacy group. Now they are taking this away.

EULA breach is a bullshit argument. The EULA covers the use of the software, not attendance at a customer function. CCP would be well within their rights to say "We think this person has alienated a large enough portion of our customer base that we do not believe he will provide a good interface with our customers." Instead they go with some weasely bullshit about EULA breaches.

What's next? I'm on Teamspeak and trash talk some alliance mate. Is CCP liable? Absolutely not. (If I did it on EVE Voice, that would be different).

I'd have more respect for CCP if they manned up and said "We think Alex is bad for business, and we're running a business." Instead they want to play Space Lawyers and Space Democracy.

WTF

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).

Townsend Harris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#353 - 2012-03-28 23:35:38 UTC
May O'Neez wrote:
The "funny" (sad, actually) things about raging of 10k people is that:
- these players have certainly lots of alts,
- the accounts are probably paid by PLEX therefore don't have any actual money value for a big bunch of them,
- the people tend to easily forget that CSM members are representatives, therefore are less tolerated of commiting errors

/rant

Now I perfectly aggree that it is a bad news and his value in CSM was very great, that makes everyone in a very unpleasant mess. But we should also consider that CCP had no choice but enforce rules like these, and I'm pretty sure they are aware of the consequences (wouldn't surprise me that we forecome emergency meeting and other not-dev blogs).

I also aggree to the analysis that since fanfest players are being watched on, this is both good and BAD. Realtime streaming sucks. Please don't do realtime diffusions when you can't face the consequences, CCP !

Hey Moron, Plex doesn't appear out of nowhere, someone, somewhere pays for it.
Oliver Duncan
B0rthole
#354 - 2012-03-28 23:35:44 UTC
Andski wrote:
Krutoj, a CSM 6 alternate who was temp-banned for RMT, was not removed from the council.
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2012-03-28 23:35:55 UTC
Leykan wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
I applaud CCP for this decision, I will explain why before I am accused of being a political tool.

In the EU we have clear laws about behaviour on the internet and in public that differ dramatically from the US. in America your right to freedom of speech is guarenteed by the first ammendment. In Europe freedom of speech is limited by the law in ways your country does not it seems understand. Before you start to call us all fascists as has been said on some threads, think about the history of the last century in Europe and ask yourself why we have limited freedom of speech to protect against hate.

In recent months in the UK in paticular the profile of cyber offences, cyber bullying, trolling has been very much in the public eye. Cases of teenage suicides after a message on a social networking site like this example http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-14239702 made national headlines.

EU law protects people from offensive behaviour on the internet and does not allow the anononymity of the web protect offendors when the use the internet as a medium to bully or spread hate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16144640 people have been given sentences lasting into years for offences carried out in the internet.

Perhaps the timing of this incident was most ill fated for Alexander, In the last month we have had a high profile case of a celebrity being targetted by a cyber bully and anti social behavior on the internet has been on the news and on prime time TV and questions have been asked in paliament. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17399027 . Even worse timing wise is the very high profile case of a student jailed for a drunken abusive rant on twitter about a seriously ill footballer that aroused comdemnation from all quarters. The student was jailed in the last week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17434587

I sympathise with americans who assume protection from the first ammendment gives you the right to say what you want be as offensive as you want on the internet press whatever. This is not the case in the rest of the world and certainly not in Europe and Alexander maybe forgot that in Iceland. Perhaps those members of the CSM who have objected to this decision need to consider this issue and see the wider impolications of this act and also the different international interpretatinos of both what is legal and what is decent and acceptable.

Again I would actually like to stress this is not a political post not a wum, This is actually somthing very good that CCP has done in sending out a clear message that certain behaviour will not be tolerated. It sucks for Alexander yes Im sure but he will bounce back from it if he wants to.



Iceland's not a part of the EU.
Your move.


No its not part of the EU yet, Its going though the process of joining the EU since its application was accepted provisionally a couple of years ago. That proccess has involved bringing the Icelandic legal system in line with the rest of Europe. Its judiciary and fundemental rights of the individual have been brought in line with European law.
Derrick Munroe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#356 - 2012-03-28 23:36:01 UTC
May O'Neez wrote:

- the accounts are probably paid by PLEX therefore don't have any actual money value

If PLEX had no monetary value CCP wouldn't be making money selling them.

What's it like, not owning any tech moons?

Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#357 - 2012-03-28 23:36:13 UTC
so CCP, is the problem a possible EULA breach, or your old self wanting to come back ?

this PR move really feels like pre-incarna CCP, it feels like a Jesus PR move.
a PR move against his current subscribers, but for future potential customers...

have you already forgotten what happened last year ?
does only the 20% guys who were fired are the ones who remember ?
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#358 - 2012-03-28 23:36:17 UTC
Andski wrote:
Krutoj, a CSM 6 alternate who was temp-banned for RMT, was not removed from the council.


Should have been IMO, explains a lot tbh.
Kingston Black
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2012-03-28 23:36:28 UTC
This is a regrettable affair perhaps goonswarm could get another member to represent the 10k goon votes.

May I suggest Kartoon as a replacement?
Drahgo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#360 - 2012-03-28 23:37:05 UTC
~10058~

CCP trying to look tough...when in reality all they're doing is kowtowing to a bunch of asshats.