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Logoffski exploit, video proof.

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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#241 - 2012-03-27 18:19:13 UTC
Tyler Rainez wrote:
Screw it...here is one...if you log off to avoid PVP and can escape the 15 min timer...that is an exploit and it will be called as such (at least by me) until CCP says otherwise

CCP haven't said this is the case; they said logging off whilst aggroed will result in a 15minute timer, not in other situations.

This is why they spoke at fanfest about changing it to a consistent 15minute timer, in all cases.

They aren't escaping the 15 minute timer, since one never started.

By your logic, they are escaping CONCORD by PVPing in lowsec. Herp derp!

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#242 - 2012-03-27 18:23:38 UTC
Tyler Rainez wrote:
EVE IS HARD -

I just want to keep it that way.

Eve hasn't been "hard" for years Roll

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tyler Rainez
#243 - 2012-03-27 18:27:56 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Tyler Rainez wrote:
Screw it...here is one...if you log off to avoid PVP and can escape the 15 min timer...that is an exploit and it will be called as such (at least by me) until CCP says otherwise

CCP haven't said this is the case; they said logging off whilst aggroed will result in a 15minute timer, not in other situations.

This is why they spoke at fanfest about changing it to a consistent 15minute timer, in all cases.

They aren't escaping the 15 minute timer, since one never started.

By your logic, they are escaping CONCORD by PVPing in lowsec. Herp derp!


A consistent 15 min timer is a good thing, i hope it's implemented.

But I'm confused as how my logic says or insinuates anything about CONCORD? CONCORD's presence is greatly reduced in low sec as per game design. If you camp at the gates and agress the guns will fire on you...and by design you can escape those. That is working as intended.
Tyler Rainez
#244 - 2012-03-27 18:28:45 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Tyler Rainez wrote:
EVE IS HARD -

I just want to keep it that way.

Eve hasn't been "hard" for years Roll


Reality hurts Cry
TR4D3R4LT
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#245 - 2012-03-27 18:29:40 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
yeah he clearly wasnt accounting for the situation I have laid out in this thread.

Try context next time.


Read what he said, go ahead, you really dont want me to pull his comment apart and explain you what he means with it. Especially when...

Tyler Rainez wrote:
Valid arguement - Cheers! However, just as you stated it is being brought up and I, as well for others I'm sure, want this changed. There are many ways to escape pvp as it is. IMO the game has become too easy in some aspects, but it still is my game of choice. I just hope CCP remembers thier marketing motto that they so reflected at this years fanfest - EVE IS HARD -

I just want to keep it that way.


I am on your side, dont get me wrong, this being my "main" and isk making toon, that never undocks or loses ships(doesnt fly them) and actually makes iskies out of people's losses, I would totally be *for* the change. I'm just trying to point out how things are AT THIS MOMENT. It's one thing to claim something, acknowledge that you've been mistaken and hope for change and explain why such change is necessary like Tyler ... compared to digging your trench deeper and continuing to fling poo all over others like certain other posters.

Just because you think something should be in state B, CCP acknowledges they will bring up discussion whether to change state A to B, doesnt mean state A doesnt exist as de facto at this moment. What's more, it also means due to retroactive law principles, unless there was clear "common sense" exploiting, aka blasters shooting to 250 km, moon goo out of thin air, T2 bpo's from Devs, there wont be any penalties/payments for issues that have already happened. Aka GM's wont act upon the matter, but I'm sure those who filled petitions about it are finding that out.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#246 - 2012-03-27 19:00:01 UTC
Tyler Rainez wrote:
EVE IS HARD -

I just want to keep it that way.


Sometimes the HARD part of EvE goes against you.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Tyler Rainez
#247 - 2012-03-27 19:22:11 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tyler Rainez wrote:
EVE IS HARD -

I just want to keep it that way.


Sometimes the HARD part of EvE goes against you.


As it should...EvE is meant to be hard and t has gotten way too easy IMO.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#248 - 2012-03-27 19:28:45 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Things are getting a bit heated in this thread, so I wanted to say that while I can't give a definitive answer to the question of this behaviour changing or not, I can promise to raise it tomorrow morning with the design guys and get an answer for you.


Goliath - I chatted with CCP Masterplan about this very issue at Fanfest last week after his Crimewatch presentation, and also brought it up as an "avoiding combat" issue at the Wardec roundtable. Be sure to get with him if you are to discuss this.

Others - As a JF hunter, my group having killed 138 of them in one year, what happens when one logs off prior to breaking gate cloak is not an exploit in and of itself in the purest sense. Believe me, if we had caught the ones which have done this there would be even fewer JFs plying the spacelanes today. The pilot is merely counting on his ship's huge amount of HP to save him, and yeah, it's a big pisser and getting around this calls for a huge scaling up of tactics. In fact it was this very issue which spurred us in going on a murdering spree against these things in the first place.

There are also two additional, separate scenarios besides this one regarding JFs and gate cloak specifically which can make them immune to tackle and thus an aggression timer, and I have corresponded with CCP regarding these... however the fixes to this one and the others are not simple as they can have quite a wide range of unintended side effects elsewhere... there were some decent ideas, however, which I hope CCP further develops.

/T
Spy 21
Doomheim
#249 - 2012-03-27 19:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Spy 21
Change the mechanic such that if you are agressed during the logoff timer you catch the 15 min agro timer.

A player should not be able to log off to avoid imminent destruction.

If you legitimately DC while jumping into a gate camp or in warp to one (bubble) the effect should be the same as if you did not dc... that is you die.

Spy

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#250 - 2012-03-27 19:35:11 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
Easy, you have to do a 5-10 second log off process before your ship leaves space. You decloak and slow down during these 5-10 seconds and if you get attacked, you cancel your log off process. You know, like how camping works in every other mmorpg. Apparently every other MMORPG is hardcore while EVE is a joke.

And yes I understand there are people who crash when they jump into a gate. Too bad. I don't get invulnerability if I crash or my router drops me during pvp.



Indeed you've got a lot of jump gates in wow. Roll
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#251 - 2012-03-27 20:17:51 UTC
Personally, I find it very unfair that the Freighter survived this, when my frigates who also log off under gate cloak will die. Clearly we need to make sure that all ships that log under gatecloak needs to get Freighter EHP!!!

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#252 - 2012-03-27 20:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Misanth wrote:
Personally, I find it very unfair that the Freighter survived this, when my frigates who also log off under gate cloak will die. Clearly we need to make sure that all ships that log under gatecloak needs to get Freighter EHP!!!

You find ut unfair that the Freighter survived them because they didn't bring enough ships to kill it fast enough?

EDIT: Just so you know it. I'm actually in for adding a 5 seconds timer where you still can be vulnerable even after logging off at a gate before you have uncloaked.

But that doesn't mean that the current mechanics as it is is an exploit.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2012-03-27 20:28:02 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Personally, I find it very unfair that the Freighter survived this, when my frigates who also log off under gate cloak will die. Clearly we need to make sure that all ships that log under gatecloak needs to get Freighter EHP!!!

You find ut unfair that the Freighter survived them because they didn't bring enough ships to kill it fast enough?



Had more then enough to kill it in 15 like it should work.

Stop trolling and supporting cheating exploiters.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#254 - 2012-03-27 20:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
RougeOperator wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Personally, I find it very unfair that the Freighter survived this, when my frigates who also log off under gate cloak will die. Clearly we need to make sure that all ships that log under gatecloak needs to get Freighter EHP!!!

You find ut unfair that the Freighter survived them because they didn't bring enough ships to kill it fast enough?



Had more then enough to kill it in 15 like it should work.

Stop trolling and supporting cheating exploiters.

And if this actually is an exploit as you say, then answer me on this post here?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2012-03-27 20:33:15 UTC
I call it as it is

Butthurt Oops

Cause they planned something, failed to take the fact into consideration of being able to log off as it is currently working, and failed so hard they blame the other guy when they screwed up about something they should already of know (like how you don't AFK in a hulk, period. Many hulk pilots learn that eventually and I am certain these guys will plan accordingly in the future to get those freighters). In current game mechanics, that blob fleet fcked up but they won't acknowledge how they failed and belive CCP has to fix the issue...but according to the video they only need just a few more seconds and thats just a few percent more DPS from all the pilots needed.

I belive a better fix, is to leave it as is Lol. But once you log back in, CONCORD comes after you for avoiding conflict with a suicide super frigate. CONCORD then blows up your freighter, blows up the wreck, pods your ass, and nullifies the clone insurance Twisted. Nothing left behind and you lose it all Big smile
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#256 - 2012-03-27 20:50:00 UTC
The butthurt in here is amazing.

Please sir, your tears, may i have some more?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2012-03-27 20:58:56 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You are just pissed that you didn't get your kill

He didnt get DC"d. He jumped into a gatecamp and closed the game to avoid death, successfuly.

Oh...I am sorry. I didn't realize that you had used your psychic powers to discover this information! Amazing! So we now know for a fact that he did not disconnect but deliberately logged off of his account when he realized there was a gate camp on the other side. Well now...based on your psychic intuition I think we should have CCP correct this greivous error! Get on this NOW CCP!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#258 - 2012-03-27 21:20:47 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
I call it as it is

Butthurt Oops

Cause they planned something, failed to take the fact into consideration of being able to log off as it is currently working, and failed so hard they


The greater issue here is not that there wasn't enough DPS to kill a ~330k EHP ship in under 1 minute, the issue is more of a case of large ships such as freighters, jump freighters, and even orcas being granted risk-free flying when going through gates unscouted or without an escort.

Jump through a gate and see reds/bads? Just CTRL-Q before gate cloak is down and you are pretty much guaranteed to save your ship before you derez. Having to cart around 10 Vindicators to kill a ship like this in < 1 minute is not a realistic expectation, especially if this situation is not expected.

This issue of avoiding combat by using logoff tactics to correct your mistake has even more implication in a wardec setting, where the logged off pilot can be kicked from corp and log back on no-longer a war target and get away scott-free.

/T
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2012-03-27 21:22:18 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Aqriue wrote:
I call it as it is

Butthurt Oops

Cause they planned something, failed to take the fact into consideration of being able to log off as it is currently working, and failed so hard they


The greater issue here is not that there wasn't enough DPS to kill a ~330k EHP ship in under 1 minute, the issue is more of a case of large ships such as freighters, jump freighters, and even orcas being granted risk-free flying when going through gates unscouted or without an escort.

Jump through a gate and see reds/bads? Just CTRL-Q before gate cloak is down and you are pretty much guaranteed to save your ship before you derez. Having to cart around 10 Vindicators to kill a ship like this in < 1 minute is not a realistic expectation, especially if this situation is not expected.

This issue of avoiding combat by using logoff tactics to correct your mistake has even more implication in a wardec setting, where the logged off pilot can be kicked from corp and log back on no-longer a war target and get away scott-free.

/T


Yup pretty much nail on the head.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2012-03-27 21:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Aqriue wrote:
I call it as it is

Butthurt Oops

Cause they planned something, failed to take the fact into consideration of being able to log off as it is currently working, and failed so hard they


The greater issue here is not that there wasn't enough DPS to kill a ~330k EHP ship in under 1 minute, the issue is more of a case of large ships such as freighters, jump freighters, and even orcas being granted risk-free flying when going through gates unscouted or without an escort.

Jump through a gate and see reds/bads? Just CTRL-Q before gate cloak is down and you are pretty much guaranteed to save your ship before you derez. Having to cart around 10 Vindicators to kill a ship like this in < 1 minute is not a realistic expectation, especially if this situation is not expected.

This issue of avoiding combat by using logoff tactics to correct your mistake has even more implication in a wardec setting, where the logged off pilot can be kicked from corp and log back on no-longer a war target and get away scott-free.

/T

Risk free? Really? So in that vid they didn't almost kill the ship before it dissapeared? I must have just hallucinated that one. I guess it is also impossible for the attackers to continue to camp the gate and wait for him to log back on?

Risk free my hairy ass. Bring more DPS next time. Stop blaming CCP for your shortcomings.

You missed the nail entirely.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821