EVE General Discussion

Join the fleet as neutral (in your own squad if need be) use warp to either to gate as applicable or when aggro is no longer an issue or they have completed a room etc. Doing this as a co-ordinated effort with communications to your services solves the problem imho.

The obvious alternatives is to simply join the Corp and not worry about these issues at all of course and take advantage of the "Corporation benefits".

The question of labelling the crime is valid. So should theft be a crime? In principle as a social argument from a moral standpoint you could say that soceities rules are enforced to protect it. As such criminal actions are in theory all against soceity not just the victims. Hence perhaps why some legal cases have "the state versus" represented.

The culpability of being the person who initiated the crime is left very much as a choice by the criminal. Also the judgement of performing the crime is again a choice afforded to the criminal. As such I see it as only valid that they recieve some token of consequence for "their" actions. Otherwise their could be situations where they will simply be able to take what they like and only initiate the PvP they want. One obvious choice is you also have the option to run after you have stolen something whereas your victim most times will always in some way lose out from the encounter.

Prior to the original insurance nerf I think there were many more gankers than there are now. When it was completely free to lose a ship after insurance, everyone was ganking in arty BS. Sometimes you could even MAKE ISK by buying, insuring and losing ships. I used to buy Ravens in Amarr on buy orders, fit smart bombs and bomb the undock (Amarr trade hub is only kickout station where this is viable) and actually be ahead after platty insurance. My best run got me 12 kills I think. I miss those days. At any rate, the Tornado is popular, but similar in cost to an arty Geddon, and the cost of ganking has risen with the ocncord insurance nerf.

Very valid point within the paradigm of our real-world society. However in terms of EVE, the overall lawlessness and moral ambiguity of its society is a part of the secret sauce that makes the universe feel unique and special. Losing it by imposing real world law and order would lose a large component of its richness.



I do agree with you on this point. The initiative in this case is solely in the hands of the thief, and I do feel that balance needs to be struck. However, swinging to the polar opposite of the spectrum and allowing everyone to intervene in a matter that does not concern them in any way does not seem to be the right solution.




Thanks, D3. I agree with this and this extends again to one of the core principles of EVE that everyone should be solely responsible for their own safety and the safety of their assets. Game mechanics should not be used to provide a safety net for anyone who neglects this aspect.

The CrimeWatch initiative seems to be a rather heavy handed fix for issues that are actually a problem - highly convoluted and obscure aggression mechanics. Aggression extension, aggression propagation, visible and invisible aggression timers - for pilots who don't specifically use these, there's no way of knowing of their existence, let alone of ways these can be used against them. Admittedly, Ninjas have used and abused those countless times - however in interest of general player base, I would like to see those particular issues resolved, rather than fundamentally changing aggression rules.

Thanks for being the voice of miscreants and sociopaths of EVE.

Very valid observation - however this would necessitate for a certain group identity to give the proverbial "towns folk" legitimacy of executing the horse thief. Horse theft, in this analogy, directly or indirectly impacts the town therefore they have a valid reason to band together and stop the thief.

This mechanic is currently in place through gaining corporate wide aggression. Does it need polish - definitely. As mentioned in my previous post, situations where obscure game mechanics lead to unexpected aggression situations (my corp mate can shoot him but I can't ...) should definitely be looked at and remedied.

The issue is where you allow completely disinterested third party to get involved into something that should be an "internal affair", so to speak, between the thief and their victim. I find your saying rather appropriate - you can't code morality. This is exactly what the CrimeWatch changes are attempting to do by classifying an act of theft as "immoral" or "illegitimate" by allowing intervention by parties originally not affected by the theft.

False. Just because a trade is consented to doesn't make it any less of a crime if it's of the scam variety. In real life, people serve time for this kind of activity. And since we're making real-life parallels with the horse thing, my question stands: will everyone be able to shoot scammers as well?

But in principle, they should be able to be shot. You would be in favor of such a system, yes?

Okay well now that I have the support of others, I demand that CCP apply the suspect flag to all scammers.

- Minor crimes. Anyone can shoot you without penalty.
- Flipping a can for example
- Shooting someone makes you a suspect (I think)


So if you attack someone with a suspect flag, you become a suspect, so everyone can shoot you as well?

if so, this will result in either three cases

1. No fights at all, because people do not want to lose their ships to random fights they never intended to start.
2. Huge blobs at stations just waiting for people with suspect flags to show up, which may result in a uncontrolled mass murder
3. Lot of suspect baits, just to provoke 100% win fights.

Best way to deal with the suicide ganking and then looting wrecks problem:

Simple:

Make ALL player-owned wrecks blue, as GCC-destroyed ships are now.

No reason that a suicide ganker should have to pick up aggro from everyone, simply because they want to loot their prize in a busy area. Its still a race to get the loot, but doesn't make looting a dead freighter with another freighter suicidal.