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Incoming titan adjustments

First post First post
Author
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#801 - 2012-03-13 21:49:34 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:

dreads hardly made a difference there


Yea except for the part where all your FCs admitted that if it weren't for the bad bounce you'd have killed way more since the first titan was dead before the first DD hit the dreads.

Feel free to rewrite the history of the fight if you want, but when your own leaders admit that it worked great you just look dumb

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Swearte Widfarend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#802 - 2012-03-13 21:49:37 UTC
Charles Case wrote:
TELL ME HOW YOU CAN BEAT A 2000 BLOB END OF DISCUSSION


Turn off the servers and go home.

If you would stop and think (I know, sometimes it's hard when you are in madposting mode), you would realize that half of this Titan nerf is beyond stupid. If Titans are supposed to shoot capitals, great. But after the update with the scan resolution change, Titans won't even be able to do that unless you spend an additional 30-40 BILLION ISK to fit stupid Officer Sensor Boosters. And in doing so, it won't change their ability to shoot MWD Drakes or MWD Maelstroms.

So what does this achieve, other than having the Titan pilots not log in at all?

Because I didn't think CCPs goals was fewer folks on the cluster.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#803 - 2012-03-13 21:49:57 UTC
except they're not really blues

they're more like "wahhh the evil goonies want our tech let's band up and defend each other but backstab each other at the drop of a hat because there is no unifying culture to actually keep us together gotta get dem goonies"
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#804 - 2012-03-13 21:50:17 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:

more than the CFC that's for damn sure


I'd take that bet

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#805 - 2012-03-13 21:50:32 UTC
see: raidenDOT bouncing their grapecaged supers out of the poses in vfk without telling their buds that they were leaving
hoggar
Dark Soul Academy
#806 - 2012-03-13 21:50:41 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Anela Cistine wrote:
There is nothing stopping alliances like PL and Raiden. from simply recruiting the low-skill backbone of a subcap fleet tomorrow.


EXACTLY, thank you, numbers are all that matter now.



Numbers Online, the internet spaceship game.


And how many people are in PL's blue list atm?


Less your alliance size
Machine Delta
Perkone
Caldari State
#807 - 2012-03-13 21:51:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Anela Cistine wrote:
There is nothing stopping alliances like PL and Raiden. from simply recruiting the low-skill backbone of a subcap fleet tomorrow.


EXACTLY, thank you, numbers are all that matter now.



Numbers Online, the internet spaceship game.


Hey, we said bombers. Keep moving the goalposts bro.
Charles Case
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#808 - 2012-03-13 21:51:28 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
TELL ME HOW YOU CAN BEAT A 2000 BLOB END OF DISCUSSION


Turn off the servers and go home.

If you would stop and think (I know, sometimes it's hard when you are in madposting mode), you would realize that half of this Titan nerf is beyond stupid. If Titans are supposed to shoot capitals, great. But after the update with the scan resolution change, Titans won't even be able to do that unless you spend an additional 30-40 BILLION ISK to fit stupid Officer Sensor Boosters. And in doing so, it won't change their ability to shoot MWD Drakes or MWD Maelstroms.

So what does this achieve, other than having the Titan pilots not log in at all?

Because I didn't think CCPs goals was fewer folks on the cluster.


That's some pretty dumb reasoning there ok
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#809 - 2012-03-13 21:51:39 UTC
hoggar wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Anela Cistine wrote:
There is nothing stopping alliances like PL and Raiden. from simply recruiting the low-skill backbone of a subcap fleet tomorrow.


EXACTLY, thank you, numbers are all that matter now.



Numbers Online, the internet spaceship game.


And how many people are in PL's blue list atm?


Less your alliance size


shut up npc alt

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

hoggar
Dark Soul Academy
#810 - 2012-03-13 21:53:46 UTC
Supercap online

BLOB OR DIE ONLINE
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#811 - 2012-03-13 21:54:15 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

dreads hardly made a difference there


Yea except for the part where all your FCs admitted that if it weren't for the bad bounce you'd have killed way more since the first titan was dead before the first DD hit the dreads.


what would have dreads added that a long legged, pissed off welp fleet would not have

it's not like you guys use support fleets
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#812 - 2012-03-13 21:54:21 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

more than the CFC that's for damn sure


I'd take that dong

grath still gaypostin it up

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Kitfox Mikakka
Targus Tax Evasion
#813 - 2012-03-13 21:54:38 UTC
This thread's pretty cool, can't wait for April thanks CCP.
Swearte Widfarend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#814 - 2012-03-13 21:54:44 UTC
Charles Case wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
TELL ME HOW YOU CAN BEAT A 2000 BLOB END OF DISCUSSION


Turn off the servers and go home.

If you would stop and think (I know, sometimes it's hard when you are in madposting mode), you would realize that half of this Titan nerf is beyond stupid. If Titans are supposed to shoot capitals, great. But after the update with the scan resolution change, Titans won't even be able to do that unless you spend an additional 30-40 BILLION ISK to fit stupid Officer Sensor Boosters. And in doing so, it won't change their ability to shoot MWD Drakes or MWD Maelstroms.

So what does this achieve, other than having the Titan pilots not log in at all?

Because I didn't think CCPs goals was fewer folks on the cluster.


That's some pretty dumb reasoning there ok


Math is hard.

An MWD Drake (or MWD Maelstrom) has the signature of a Carrier. Ergo, the MWD Maelstrom or MWD Drake can be hit by a turret Titan. The proposed Titan changes don't change that fact.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#815 - 2012-03-13 21:55:04 UTC
hoggar wrote:
Supercap online

BLOB OR DIE ONLINE


i think the latter is a lot better

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Shadoo
North Eastern Swat
#816 - 2012-03-13 21:55:07 UTC
I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes

Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field

So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for

But that was 3 years ago

I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE

And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix

What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?

How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out

Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change

What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)

What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?

With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change

And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#817 - 2012-03-13 21:56:30 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
TELL ME HOW YOU CAN BEAT A 2000 BLOB END OF DISCUSSION


Turn off the servers and go home.

If you would stop and think (I know, sometimes it's hard when you are in madposting mode), you would realize that half of this Titan nerf is beyond stupid. If Titans are supposed to shoot capitals, great. But after the update with the scan resolution change, Titans won't even be able to do that unless you spend an additional 30-40 BILLION ISK to fit stupid Officer Sensor Boosters. And in doing so, it won't change their ability to shoot MWD Drakes or MWD Maelstroms.

So what does this achieve, other than having the Titan pilots not log in at all?

Because I didn't think CCPs goals was fewer folks on the cluster.


That's some pretty dumb reasoning there ok


Math is hard.

An MWD Drake (or MWD Maelstrom) has the signature of a Carrier. Ergo, the MWD Maelstrom or MWD Drake can be hit by a turret Titan. The proposed Titan changes don't change that fact.


yeah we tend to run our MWDs for fun and just sit still

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Variable1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#818 - 2012-03-13 21:57:28 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ikoma Sunblazer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.



All things aside, this is a pretty hilarious assumption that doesn't make sense in context. With a base sensor strength of 5, you are talking about a few seconds difference between t2 and cormack out of a probable minute+ lock time.

Well worth the 4b+ sensor booster imo Lol


Gains you 25s against frigates (105 to 79, assuming 3 are fitted), 15s against cruisers (64 to 49) and 10s against battleships (44 to 33).

If you see this as a big difference, then it's worth balancing around the officer fit given that dropping 12bn on SBs is not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan. If you don't see this as a big difference, then balancing around the officer fit isn't a big deal because it's not having a major impact. Either way, it's a functional assumption Smile



1. lol'ing at 'assumptions' instead of actual in game data being used to make HUGE changes in game.

2. lol'ing at all Titan pilots being 'rich'. Titan pilots are probably botters. Titan pilots are RMT'ers. Titan pilots all fit Officer everything. Titan pilots standard fit can pop bs/cruisers/frigs. Do you even have the slightest clue?

3. lol'ing at the 2 types of people in this thread agreeing - goons and friends of goons (ie no clue)

4. lol'ing at the lack of work done on countering 700+ maels...

5. lol'ing at the welcome to BLOB land.

6. lol'ing that my tears are not as much for the nerf, but for the shear stupidity of the arguments used to create this nerf and the disbelief that CCP cannot see you for what you have become.

Sad days ahead perhaps, but most will try to keep up the honest fight against goonswarmonline, and continue to have their counters nerfed until quitting time. I will donate my stuff to anyone who can change the goon ethos of 'destroy eve whatever the cost'.


Onwards on upwards. :-) Tinfoil off.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#819 - 2012-03-13 21:57:29 UTC
As usual Shadoo comes by and makes sense for everyone.

Can lock thread now.

Should have posted 45 pages ago.
Styrling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#820 - 2012-03-13 21:57:44 UTC
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. ITS CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS OR EVEN WHEN I MESS UP TECHNIQUE. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY’S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN. I SAY IT AND I SAY IT OUTLOUD EVERYDAY TO PEOPLE IN MY COLLEGE CLASS AND ALL THEY DO IS PROVE PEOPLE IN COLLEGE CLASS CAN STILL BE IMMATURE JERKS. AND IVE LEARNED ALL THE LINES AND IVE LEARNED HOW TO MAKE MYSELF AND MY APARTMENT LESS LONELY BY SHOUTING EM ALL. 2 HOURS INCLUDING WIND DOWN EVERY MORNING. THEN I POST ABOUT TITANS ON FORUMS.EVEONLINE.COM