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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

First post First post
Author
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-03-06 17:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Navigator
Re-balancing is on our minds as many of you know and CCP Ytterbium is here to tell you all about some major changes we'll be seeing the start of soon.

Please go here to read the blog and as always, we're eager to hear your feedback.

Edit:
Notice also CCP Soundwave's remark about skill reimbursement,
CCP Soundwave's statement that "if you could fly it yesterday, you will be able to fly it tomorrow" and
CCP Ytterbium's confirmation about racial skill preservation.
CCP Ytterbium provides a bunch of answers to common questions and concerns in the thread (March 8th 12:06 EVE time)
CCP Ytterbium explains how balancing will span several expansions

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Hugo Smith
The Tharsis Accord
#2 - 2012-03-06 17:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hugo Smith
Jesus ******* christ. WHAT THE **** IS THIS!?!?!?

The new ship lines make sense but PLEASE dont change the skill training lines. It will anoy so many people.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#3 - 2012-03-06 17:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
This is AWESOME, but I'm a bit miffed that those of us who have extensively crosstrained are going to be stuck re-training up 3 Destroyer and 3 BC skills.

-Liang

Ed: Also, your comments link in the dev blog doesn't work. <3 Yeah, the more I think about it the more that it bothers me to have to spend ~2.5 months retraining to fly the many, many, many battlecruisers across all races that I already fly. :|

Further addendum to help keep everyone up to date:

CCP Soundwave had this to say here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898503#post898503

CCP Soundwave wrote:

We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


And again here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898531#post898531

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.


More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898882#post898882

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


More! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

...
Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.
...


This topic is thoroughly beat to death!

The latest on Reimbursement (but read the whole thing for seriously - tons of info):
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=908403#post908403

Quote:

Q: Will all of these ship balancing changes be applied in one go for Inferno?

A: No, the nuance is we will begin this general ship balancing plan with Inferno. Not only trying to revamp everything for Inferno would require a massive commitment, but even if it was possible, doing so in one move would be quite risky as ship balancing is a delicate process.

That means we will proceed slowly, one step at a time, starting with the ship classes that need the most love (most likely tech 1 frigates and destroyers), then moving our way up. This blog is describing future vision changes in an effort to increase transparency. We definitely want to have more blogs, discussion and feedback along the way.
...

Q: With the skill changes, I will have to train for [racial cruiser V] and [racial battlecruiser V] to train for a Command Ship, how does that make it easier for me?
...

Example:
Before, training for a Harbinger required you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Cruiser 3 and Battlecruisers at 2
Before, training for an Absolution required you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Cruiser 5, Battlecruiser at 5 and Heavy Assault Ships at 4
Now, training for a Harbinger requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and then Amarr Battlecruiser at 1.
Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.
...

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

testobjekt
Goonswarm Federation Human Resources
#4 - 2012-03-06 17:59:16 UTC
sounds good but its very complicated and a lot of people will be upset if they cant fly a /trained useless skills. Be careful here.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-03-06 17:59:19 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
This is AWESOME, but I'm a bit miffed that those of us who have extensively crosstrained are going to be stuck re-training up 3 Destroyer and 3 BC skills.

-Liang

Ed: Also, your comments link in the dev blog doesn't work. <3 Yeah, the more I think about it the more that it bothers me to have to spend ~2.5 months retraining to fly the many, many, many battlecruisers across all races that I already fly. :|



this, not happy about having to train 6 skills to fly ships i can already fly

OMG when can i get a pic here

Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-06 17:59:38 UTC
Removing tiers? This might be the greatest thing ever.

I can see a lot of resistance from those who have extensively cross trained. I don't know how you will deal with that for everyone.
But honestly, changing the skills just makes sense. I'm sure a lot of people will also be split on the idea to lower the requirement for capitals from BS V to BS IV.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need

Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2012-03-06 18:00:08 UTC
Will we get our battleship fives reimbursed too?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#8 - 2012-03-06 18:00:24 UTC
dev blog wrote:
Or the Gallente drone and dampening abilities stop with the Exequror?


wha?

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Spugg Galdon
MATARSOC
Federation Uprising
#9 - 2012-03-06 18:01:03 UTC
Yay for the tier system getting blown to bits. I love you!


Buckets of tears for maybe needing to train battle cruisers to 5 for the three races I choose not to put he reimbursed SP in but I am happy to take it up the arse if that's what it takes to get the role system!

A big arsed **** yeah!
StevieTopSiders
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-06 18:01:12 UTC
Furiously buying up Probe halls in hopes of a buff.

Also, while this is a great step in the right direction, balancing this is gonna be OMGWTF difficult. Notify us about changes on SisI, let us test them and give you feedback, etc. Also, if something ends up being OP, then don't wait like 10 months to nerf it.

Also, listen to Prom.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2012-03-06 18:01:17 UTC
For this kind of extensive renovation you should probably go ahead and reimburse pretty much every single spaceship command skillpoint
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-03-06 18:01:20 UTC
HERE. :)
now read.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2012-03-06 18:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.

EDIT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT:

  • New destroyer and battlecruiser skills would be same rank than existing ones
  • We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.


MOAR STUFF HERE FOLKS (skills, confusing picture, apology to CSM).
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#14 - 2012-03-06 18:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Chaos Incarnate
I'm guessing the battlecruiser/destroyer skills will be refunded as free sp as a part of this? generally fairly happy with what i can see so far otherwise...

edit: reading is key, saw it was mentioned in the blog. groovy Cool
quygen
Acting Neutral
#15 - 2012-03-06 18:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: quygen
First page \o/

Still wondering about splitting those BC skills, i trained that to lvl5 about 2,5 years ago.
have to do all the training all over again.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#16 - 2012-03-06 18:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: EI Digin
Hey, this looks like a decent change but will the new racial destroyer/bc skills take up as much SP as the current skills? I don't want to retrain in order to fly ships that I already can fly, and people are going to be pissed off because you are screwing with their remaps and stuff.

edit: WELP

I do like the fact that now I don't have to train battleship 5 to get into a decent capital though. Also iteration owns.
Shandir
Indigo Archive
#17 - 2012-03-06 18:05:43 UTC
This sounds like good news - people have been asking to drop the tiering system for a while.
I hope you guys realise how difficult getting all this balancing right is going to be. But good luck :)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#18 - 2012-03-06 18:05:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's
Stellar Economy Experts
#19 - 2012-03-06 18:06:20 UTC
As someone with a lot of cross training the idea of relearning skills for destroyer or battle cruisers is somehow annoying. Specially if you take into account that destroyers are of little use at this point.

Some of the ideas clearly make sense to me, than I still miss handling some points in your current schema.

New types great. I still love to see a frig or destroyer size logistic ship, for fast moving groups.

I totally miss something to counter blob warfare. Is there any incentive in this, that would counter bigger blob wins regardless of strategy? Something that actually would bring FCs to distribute their fleets?

So many interesting ideas out there (direction of hit impacts dps), sensor strength in dense formation ...

So what I see now mostly feels as if you make it more noob friendly instead of more interesting :(

Still change is good, so go on
Bagehi
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2012-03-06 18:06:23 UTC
First thought was "awww, I'm going to have a bunch of skills to train now." Then it dawned on me that I was just complaining a week ago that I didn't know what to train next. This is a good change. Keep it up!
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