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New dev blog: What's in a name

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Author
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#101 - 2012-02-29 17:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
Also, LOL at all the bitter vets crying foul of something so ridiculous as naming conventions.

"Not the names of my items, nOOoooOOo"

If the names of items is what kept EVE "deep" for you, then you're either very easily entertained or don't know the definition of the word.

Depth != needlessly confusing naming conventions or obscurely large learning curve.
Vertigo Ren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-02-29 17:44:33 UTC
Zevas wrote:
Implant changes are nice.

The Meta level names suck and/or have the wrong ordering. Each level needs to inherently suggest an improvement. The current proposed names do not.

I would do something like this:

Meta Level 1: Experimental
Meta Level 2: Limited
Meta Level 3: Upgraded
Meta Level 4: Advanced

EDIT: Swapped them around a bit.

Agree with post further down. Limited needs a new name.


Agreed, Limited doesn't seem to fit at all in there.

Meta 1 : Standard
Meta 2 : Experimental
Meta 3 : Upgraded
Meta 4 : Advanced
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#103 - 2012-02-29 17:44:51 UTC
Valeo Galaem wrote:
For consistency all of the "Thermic Dissipation Field" items should be "Thermic Deflection Field" like the rest of the damage types.


Except you don't deflect heat, you dissipate it.

If you want to go like that, then it should be:

EM Resistance
Thermic Dissipation
Kinetic Deflection
Explosive Absorption
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#104 - 2012-02-29 17:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62254 ill leave this here since it take to long to boil the entire argument down.

I would like to add that if you do go the meta theming arrage them a bit.

1 Enchanced - means you made some tweaks to get better performance
2 Upgraded - The fact you had to go out and replace parts to get better performance.
3 Prototype - Is basically the mass production variant before release.
4 Experimental - Not ready for the world or the world isnt ready for it.

This however... doesnt make in alphabetical order (oh noes)

So altenratively this is a generic list of useable words in alpha order

0 [_] Blank Space to force sort it to have it at the start of the list
Advanced
Augmented
Boosted <- Meta 1 Nomation
Civillian <- Meta 0 Nomation
Converted <- Meta 1 Nomination, Sounds like no major engineering was required to improve performance
Developed <- Meta 2 Nomination
Enchanced <- Meta 2 Nomination, Sounds like some thought went into increasing performance
Engineered <- Meta 3 Nomination, Sounds like alot of money and thought went into increasing performance
Enriched
Evolved
Expanded
Experimental <- Meta 3 Monimation, Once against sounds like money and time went into it.
Innovated <- Meta 3/4 Nomation, Sounds like major investements where made to make these
Improved
Refined
Perfected <- Meta 4 Nomation, Seriously only the obessed with would try to name something this confident it is so.
Progressive
Prototype <- Meta 4 Nomation, well it sounds cool but i have to agree dont use this if you use experimental.
Modified
Superior
Upgraded
Ultimatium
Then you interject flavor names in partial or whole.

[Meta Name][Flavor/Faction Name][Module Name][Tech Mark]

Perfected Carbine 150mm Artillery Cannon I
Caldari Navy Torpedo Launcher I
Enginnered Scout's 425mm Railgun I

Then go around and smash alot of the longer multiple flavor names into smaller ones to keep the names small.

Also go back and redo the afterburners/mwd if you go with the above plan

Innovated Arc-Jet 100MN Afterburner I

This I strongly belive is the best of all worlds.

Also change the light missile array into something different, it still needs the launcher name in it but the light missile must be included.

The Rapid Light Missile launcher idea was good but has no indication it goes on larger ships.

Light Missile Battery Launcher however does.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-02-29 17:47:57 UTC
Good job renaming Assaults Launchers to "arrays"
That makes a whole ******* load of sense
Not

No other launcher is called an array. So much for consistency. And why not just let HAMs be HAMs?
Tacct
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#106 - 2012-02-29 17:48:35 UTC
Completely opposed to everything except the hardwiring changes.

Quote:
"I'm currently spearheading an initiative to rename those of EVE's modules and implants whose names have been deemed too confusing by a fearless cross-departmental cadre of game designers, UI designers & content developers."

I'm sorry, shouldn't things like these be changed when they are deemed too confusing by the players. The simplification of names just takes variety away from the game.

Side note, I'll never understand how people get paid for work like this, and then come up with work that looks like they spent 2 minutes on it. I mean almost everyone here has pointed out experimental = prototype... how does the person getting paid to come up with these names not realize this.
Atossa Exior
Midnight Conclave
#107 - 2012-02-29 17:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Atossa Exior
TheButcherPete wrote:
How many times do I need to say this?

If something is experimental, it is also a prototype.


Edit: Inappropriate language removed, CCP Phantom


A prototype is a first round, proof of concept where as something is experimental it's in a larger testing arena (more specailized tests, production, delivery, as well as testing of the item/functions).

An example:
Protoype: Have Blue
Experimental: YF-117
Final: F-117

Wikipedia on F-117
Jastra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-02-29 17:49:58 UTC
Hotaru Yamato wrote:
I don't see why people are against this idea, it makes sense. Complexity for complexity's sake just hurts newbies.


and yet everyone who is playing the game somehow coped, I don't see the point, I like obscurity and things not always making sense, i like finding weirdly named stuff and the community that has grown up around cataloguing said weird stuff...seems like there is other stuff that needs fixing before this, which doesn't actually need fixing
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#109 - 2012-02-29 17:52:55 UTC
I propose the following changes in order to make EVE-Online more accessible to new players:


  • All weapons will be now lasers, but they will be renamed to "Guns". To allow some diversity while keeping the game not so hard for new players guns will be in 4 flavours:

  • -Fastest gun: the name implies the gun shoot very fast, but does the less damage.
    -Not so fast gun
    -Slow gun
    -Badass gun: the one that does more damage

  • Microwarpdrives are hard to pronounce, thus are removed.

  • Afterburner will be renamed to "Turbo". This way we recoup console players, more used to this word due to games like need for speed.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#110 - 2012-02-29 17:53:28 UTC
Don't get me wrong i think renaming needs to be done on some modules, but for the most part they already make sense in a lot of areas.

Everyone knows n-type is meta 4 for armor modules.

scouts are meta 4 for projectiles
'arbelasts' meta 4 missiles
proto type for rails. etc.

But dont dumb it down too much we still need complexity.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

malaire
#111 - 2012-02-29 17:55:47 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Just want to echo what some have said here and others have suggested before. Please add the ability to sort items by meta level.

In what context? You can already do this for Items-hangar and any containers there. (Use List or Details view, right click to add Meta level column, sort by that.)

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#112 - 2012-02-29 17:57:36 UTC
Also CCP let me levey the charge that I think we got entirely ignored last time with absolutely no feedback.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#113 - 2012-02-29 17:57:37 UTC
malaire wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Just want to echo what some have said here and others have suggested before. Please add the ability to sort items by meta level.

In what context? You can already do this for Items-hangar and any containers there. (Use List or Details view, right click to add Meta level column, sort by that.)



Sort by meta level (and display it) on the market would currently be handy, with the morass of different names.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-02-29 17:57:53 UTC
Quote:

Meta Level 1: Upgraded

Meta Level 2: Limited

Meta Level 3: Experimental

Meta Level 4: Prototype


These are literally backwards.

Your first design you make is:
Prototype (Level 1) where you were just trying to get the darn thing working.
Your second design is "Experimental" (Level 2) where you improved things, but still problems popped up.
Your third design will be "Limited" (level 3) as in a limited run where you find the last hidden flaws.
And your general run would be "Upgraded" from that limited design (Level 4) is when you have it running smooth and optimized.

Personally, the quality of the "Civilian" modules would match my mental mind of a "Prototype" and I wouldn't want to put Prototype crap on my ship. Prototype should be called "Standard" or "Basic" and not imply that it could fail at any moment like a prototype. Prototypes are Alpha versions of software and Experimental are Beta versions of software. I'm also hesitant to put anything on my ship labeled "Experimental" as that does not instill confidence in the quality of the module either.

These describe modules that won't simply fail randomly and convey an order that flows. Also, the modules alphabetize in Meta order:
Meta Level 1: Basic
Meta Level 2: Improved
Meta Level 3: Special
Meta Level 4: Ultimate
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-02-29 17:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
You people just don't see the forest from all the trees.

The names are not the problem. Lack of simple methods to display the items meta level (unless in hangar) is way worse stepping stone to newbs and annoying thing to old timers too. Specially the market should have meta levels visible on item groups. Items could be even sorted by their meta level in there.

Compare tool really needs to have easier way to access. It is pretty much only tool what you can use to compare different meta level items easily.

It wouldn't harm if you enabled the meta level column in hangar by default too as most people don't even know that it is there.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2012-02-29 17:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Aiko
god bless Gnauton ! <3

it's the best blog i saw since a while

i less reason to reprocess all your stuff on, the hangar to avoid headache ^^
(can another dev offer us multiple items instant sell order now please xD ?)

i'm a bit confused about "experimental" and "prototype" however. for me "experimental" is the best, while "prototype" would be meta 0 or meta -1 :P
and for missile i like the "ligh missile" thing, but "array" don't seems clear for me, would prefer it to stay "assault"
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#117 - 2012-02-29 18:01:31 UTC
Mixed feelings about the dumbing down of meta level prefixes.

On one side, this throws away the need (that I had five years ago) to write down every godawful electron blaster and resistance plating and gyrostabilizer variant to try and understand which one is better than the other. Yay for WOW refugees.

(Still, adding the meta level column in pretty much ANY container, while being able to sort any list of items by that column, removed that need all on itself. Too bad it's still so horribly, horribly underdocumented. Too bad for the pubbies. I have my cans neatly showing me the meta level of whatever junk I come by. Whatever.)

On the other side, we're going to lose a lot of diversity and depth and sci-fi taste. Phased Muons, Rolled Tungsten, the late Cold-Gas, Prototype Gauss, Arbalests and Malkuths, YF12s, N-Types... Ohgod, the quantity of "flavor" on the verge of being lost forever is staggering.

I know I'd hate to live in a world where everything is either T2 or "Prototype"/"Experimental" (which is basically the same).

Just imagine we will soon lose the Target Painter meta names!!!

If you wonder why I want to RIP THE EYES OUT OF WHOEVER THOUGHT OF THIS, think of target painters.

If you're asking yourself why painter names are so special, you should uninstall EVE. Right about now.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>

Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-02-29 18:02:36 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
You people just don't see the forest from all the trees.

The names are not the problem. Lack of simple methods to display the items meta level (unless in hangar) is way worse stepping stone to newbs and annoying thing to old timers too. Specially the market should have meta levels visible on item groups. Items could be even sorted by their meta level in there.


+1

Changing the names won't accomplish anything except breaking every single killboard and 3rd party app for a week and confusing everyone including the noobs. Just like the last time.

The names are fine the way they are, better even than having all standardized names. What's truly needed is better methods to easily see meta level directly.
Orator de Umbras
Doomheim
#119 - 2012-02-29 18:02:52 UTC
An "experimental" module is different from a prototype. An "experimental" module uses "experimental" settings or a design to be used for testing. A "prototype" module is a module that has been through testing and is a "prototype" for the final production model. From a "prototype" you do some fine tuning, and then we would get the T2 complete module.

I would agree that the "Limited" and "Upgraded" names need to be swapped, so that Meta 1 is "Limited". From an RP perspective, you would "limit" a module to make it perform with fewer resources. Past that you would "upgrade" the module to perform better with fewer resources. Makes more sense.

As for the hardeners, it's about freaking time. I remember when I was new to the game, it took me a month to realize my armor hardeners needed to be activated, because I didn't know the different between active and passive.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#120 - 2012-02-29 18:02:58 UTC
I am liking some of what I am hearing, but I vote you keep the names of resistance equipment as magnetic, reactive, etc. it's not that hard to remember (reflective, that stops explosives right :P), since theres only four of them, but it brings flavor.