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New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
Zaragis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-02-29 17:19:40 UTC
Meta Level 1: Upgraded
Meta Level 2: Limited
Meta Level 3: Experimental
Meta Level 4: Prototype

Wtf?!?!?!!!???!!!!!

Upgraded is better than limited ? And Experimental and prototype are the SAME thing!!
Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders
#82 - 2012-02-29 17:20:56 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Do you want to come and rename all my excel sheets and 3rd party programs also?

You just caused weeks worth of painless work for me and you continue to do so.
Renaming the missiles was bulljunk and this just keeps going.

Stop nerfing the game. Make meta levels visible in market groups and put compare tool to neocom, but ffs stop renaming the stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



At least it is painlessLol

The idea is great and worthy in my opinion. I always hated the old names, who has time to learn all the nuances? Well, I didn't, too busy using my limited time for Eve to actually play. I do think something other than Limited could be used, though it is sooo sexy, almost as sexy as trauma...ummm blunt force trauma...

And i believe Prototype is generally used for the first try at something, while experimental is used to make variations of something. Though I can find no backup for that, that is how I see it. I would can the name Prototype for this reason.

Standardization works for me. +1

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.

Jax Slizard
Celerna
#83 - 2012-02-29 17:22:22 UTC
You know what would be awesome and useful? If you made the names for higher meta level items start with letters later in the alphabet. That way they would automatically sort in meta order when sorted by alphabetical order.

As in, if meta 1 was Fantastic, meta 2 was Great, meta 3 was Stupendous and meta 4 was Wonderful, then a sorted list would look like:

Fantastic Torpedo Launcher (Meta 1)
Great Torpedo Launcher (Meta 2)
Stupendous Torpedo Launcher (Meta 3)
Wonderful Torpedo Launcher (Meta 4)

Now obviously these are terrible terrible terrible names, and the order of fantastic and great appears to be wrong, but you get the point.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-02-29 17:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
Blimey CCP, what's going on in the office over there? The volcanic fumes finally made it past the filters for the aircon units?


Upgraded -> Limited -> Experimental -> Prototype

Makes no logical sense at all as "Limited" implies that an item is worse than its stablemates.

If anything, it should be a logical progression:

Experimental / Prototype -> Modified -> Enhanced -> Improved / Upgraded -> T2.


As for the launchers, renaming Standard Launchers to Light Missile Launchers and Siege to Torpedo are the only ones that make sense.

Missile "Array"? No.

It should be Light Assault Missile Launcher and then you can keep Heavy Assault Missile Launcher.

Props for finally changing the implant names though, they were bonkers hard to remember.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2012-02-29 17:23:43 UTC
As long as the search function allows for non-exact searches (i.e. you can enter "limited launcher" in the search field and find all Meta-2 launchers, no matter how those two words appear in the name), it will be all fine.

I can somewhat sympathise with the feeling that applying this to everything will make things a bit… boring, but you can probably fix that by having 3-4 different meta-naming schemes (where's my MkI–MkIV scheme!? Stop hogging it, nasty evil Iteron!). I also agree that the names themselves could probably be better when it comes to conveying the increasing ability and efficiency.
Shandir
Indigo Archive
#86 - 2012-02-29 17:24:35 UTC
Fantocis wrote:
If its upgraded in meta 1 from what then it its upgraded? from item that do not exists in eve game? It`s do not make sense CCP Gnauton because if it is UPGRADED it should be Meta 2 then its experimental because its like BETA tested but not common and then its prototype


You do realise that Meta Level 1 is not, in fact, the base form of an item? That's Meta Level 0. Learn 2 EVE.

I think the name changes are good, for the most part, and agree that the complexity in naming (Especially implants) is not depth, just extra legwork.

I agree that LMA is not an ideal name as it is not clear why this is different from a launcher. Perhaps Light Missile Launcher Array (ie an array of LMLs)

I don't know that you needed to change Reactive/Reflective/etc, they were consistent and relatively clear.

Since it seems not to be clear to most people that Limited means Limited Edition, you need to either rename it to make this clear, or come up with a new Meta 2 name.

I think Experimental vs Prototype is fine. For me, prototype is 'prototype for production soon' whereas experimental is 'trying out new stuff, nowhere near production'

PS: The spreadsheet tears are hilarious.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-02-29 17:25:33 UTC
OMG! Not again! You already caused severe "trauma" with the missile changes and now you mess with the launchers too?
Why not rename T2 ammo to short range and long range, after all conflag, barrage, hail, null, void is waay too confusing anyway.

Now for some constructive criticism. The meta names are backwards:

Meta Level 1: Upgraded
Meta Level 2: Limited
Meta Level 3: Experimental
Meta Level 4: Prototype


Why is the Meta 2 'limited' when it is obviously better than the Meta 1? Each level should imply that it is better than the next. Evil

Also, experimental and prototype...which one is better? After all, both words are almost synonyms. Evil

Why the Light Missile "Array"?? Every other launcher is called a "launcher", why are these arrays? Evil

The only positive, well thought out, changes are the implants names. Smile
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#88 - 2012-02-29 17:26:42 UTC
I approve greatly of these changes. The hardwireing in particular was a god forsaken mess, having to show info on everyone to get an idea of what they did was a nightmare.

The only concern I have is in the launcher names.

For turrets it is easily recognizable what are short range and what are longer range cannons.
Pulse = short,
Beam = long.

Wouldn't it make more sense to separate out the launchers in the same way? At least in the market view.

First by size
Large
Medium
Small

Then have that broken down by range,

Large > Torpedos/Cruise Missiles
Mediums > Assault/Heavy missiles
Small > Rockets/ Light missiles

Thus you're launcher names would be

Meta X Torpedo launcher
meta X Cruise Missile launcher

Meta X Assault Missile Launcher
Meta X Heavy Missile Launcher

Meta X Rocket Launcher
Meta X Light Missile Launcher.

The only real changes are to make the array thing a bit less confusing and keep the naming convention of the medium size launchers. I never flew Caldari so the only experience I have are the Khanid ships which all use HAMs.

Basically the naming convention between Assault missiles and Heavy assault missiles is confusing. Rather than changing the launcher descriptor, why not simply use a different prefix.
sakurako
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2012-02-29 17:27:36 UTC
DJ Obsidian wrote:
Ok a few things,

you should rework meta names again. meta 1 and 2 are too similar and meta 3 and 4 are similar also so they could get confusing.


And i agree that renaming everything DOES make the game too generic.


example.

n-type explosive hardner sounds a lot cooler than prototype explosive hardner.


mega afocal partical tachyon stream sounds 100x cooler than prototype tachyon beam.




ArrowWHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS


Review naming scheme on a case by case basis.

step 1. start with guns, and missiles.

ASK THE PLAYERS WHAT ARE BETTER NAMES

Do not implement this automatically without player review first. Of course you have not learned and skipped this part already.


So scrap your renamming stuff all of it. just flat out trash it.

Go back and make a new dev blog with suggested names for modules, and seperate it into different sections maybe with some PDF goodness with what name changes you want to make. Also add on a suggestion box or a form where players can mail back their thoughts better than the forums such as surveys and lots of comment forms.


Finally
Quote:
Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' HY-2.5, which goes in implant slot 6 and gives an 18% bonus to Warp Speed, is now Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Warp Drive Speed WS-618.


How about Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' WDS-618 Never hesitate to use acronyms.



RENAMING Modules with a generic naming scheme takes away flavor from the game. It's like replacing all the icecream on the shelf with vanilla and variations of vanilla. its just too plain.


ccp do a review with the player base, come on they know whats best for the game they would never upset the player based and have players riot in jita

i agree that these name need relooking at
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#90 - 2012-02-29 17:28:38 UTC
Should be:

Light Missile Launcher
Light Assault Missile Launcher
Heavy Missile Launcher
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher

The Drake is a Lie

ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#91 - 2012-02-29 17:28:51 UTC
thank you for destroying the flavor if how superficial that we have in items you say that was not your intention but that is the result

still i do welcome the change in hardwiring name scheme old was a real mess. although i still wonder why you use the word inherent as that implies the capsule had it to begin with

your orders for the meta seem a little counter intuitive
limited to me means in this context as being held back or of inferior use and should be replaced by a new name
prototype should go before experimental since prototype is usually closer to a final copy


YOU WILL NOT REPLACE SIEGE WITH TORPEDO

i can kinda agree with the name change on hams but now them being just a assault missile does not make them seem like heavy missile counterparts.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#92 - 2012-02-29 17:28:53 UTC
I don't like the idea of HAMS becoming AMs and AMs becoming Light Arrays.

Also, for the love of god do NOT take away the Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron. That name is sacred. SACRED.
Anigo Montioa
Spec Pvpers Inducing Chaotic Yarrs
#93 - 2012-02-29 17:32:14 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Djakku wrote:
this just makes the game more boring and less- sci fi...



Agreed.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#94 - 2012-02-29 17:34:48 UTC
I support everything but the "arrays". Those are just terrible.

Also, with regards to spreadsheet tears: If you used the typeid (e.g. 8025) instead of the name of the item (e.g. Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I), this wouldn't be a problem. The typeid is the "unique ID" of the item that will never ever change. Basing your spreadsheets on the name is, from CCP's and from a coding standpoint, as foolhardy as basing them on the damage modifier of the mods.

CCP, please release the database dump sooner this time. Breaking every 3rd party tool because they can't upgrade without your DB dump is dumb.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Valeo Galaem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-02-29 17:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Valeo Galaem
For consistency all of the "Thermic Dissipation Field" items should be "Thermic Deflection Field" like the rest of the damage types.

Standalone Windows build of ccpgames/dae-to-red

https://github.com/Nu11u5/dae-to-red/releases

Nonnori Ikkala
Love for You
#96 - 2012-02-29 17:35:57 UTC
Flavorful names are a plus, but names that effectively convey information are double plus extra good, so I support your efforts! And thanks for letting us know in advance for this iteration.
Fantocis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-02-29 17:38:07 UTC
Shandir wrote:
Fantocis wrote:
If its upgraded in meta 1 from what then it its upgraded? from item that do not exists in eve game? It`s do not make sense CCP Gnauton because if it is UPGRADED it should be Meta 2 then its experimental because its like BETA tested but not common and then its prototype


You do realise that Meta Level 1 is not, in fact, the base form of an item? That's Meta Level 0. Learn 2 EVE.


Hell you fast ;) that was changed in 2 sec after posting when i realized that forgot meta0

shame on me ill go stand in the corner
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#98 - 2012-02-29 17:38:31 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I support everything but the "arrays". Those are just terrible.

Also, with regards to spreadsheet tears: If you used the typeid (e.g. 8025) instead of the name of the item (e.g. Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I), this wouldn't be a problem. The typeid is the "unique ID" of the item that will never ever change. Basing your spreadsheets on the name is, from CCP's and from a coding standpoint, as foolhardy as basing them on the damage modifier of the mods.

CCP, please release the database dump sooner this time. Breaking every 3rd party tool because they can't upgrade without your DB dump is dumb.



And if you do this ^^^, then all you'll need to update is the sheet containing the data for the vlookup Big smile

Oh look, I supply such a sheet on my site, and as I use it in my own spreadsheets, I'll be keeping it up to date.

Though to be honest, most of the time I have any heavy lifting to be done? I use a database.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Pierced Brosmen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-02-29 17:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Pierced Brosmen
I like the changes to the implants cause with excetpion to a few of them, they are confusing as hell to figure out what they do by looking at the names.

However, I'm against the dumbing down of the module names... Why should everything be standardized and boring?

Also.. I would really hate to see the names of meta target painters go.... they have such gullible acronyms Smile

Quote:
Partial Weapon Navigation = PWN
Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter = PWND
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter = PWNT
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron = PWNAGE
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-02-29 17:41:43 UTC
+1 for simplifying the names so it's easier for noobies to find.

-0.1 for losing some of the flavour but maybe it's better to have useability before the uniqueness. Maybe you could include the lost flavour in the item description so it becomes a part of the background rather than vanishes completely from the lore.

As it has been mentioned before the light missile array is sub-optimal. Light missile launcher array or the rapid light missile launcher would be better.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.