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New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
DJ Obsidian
RONA Legion
RONA Directorate
#61 - 2012-02-29 16:54:52 UTC
Ok a few things,

you should rework meta names again. meta 1 and 2 are too similar and meta 3 and 4 are similar also so they could get confusing.


And i agree that renaming everything DOES make the game too generic.


example.

n-type explosive hardner sounds a lot cooler than prototype explosive hardner.


mega afocal partical tachyon stream sounds 100x cooler than prototype tachyon beam.




ArrowWHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS


Review naming scheme on a case by case basis.

step 1. start with guns, and missiles.

ASK THE PLAYERS WHAT ARE BETTER NAMES

Do not implement this automatically without player review first. Of course you have not learned and skipped this part already.


So scrap your renamming stuff all of it. just flat out trash it.

Go back and make a new dev blog with suggested names for modules, and seperate it into different sections maybe with some PDF goodness with what name changes you want to make. Also add on a suggestion box or a form where players can mail back their thoughts better than the forums such as surveys and lots of comment forms.


Finally
Quote:
Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' HY-2.5, which goes in implant slot 6 and gives an 18% bonus to Warp Speed, is now Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Warp Drive Speed WS-618.


How about Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' WDS-618 Never hesitate to use acronyms.



RENAMING Modules with a generic naming scheme takes away flavor from the game. It's like replacing all the icecream on the shelf with vanilla and variations of vanilla. its just too plain.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-02-29 16:56:02 UTC
Salvia Olima wrote:
I believe the sole reason was that CCP Gnauton been asked what he's been done lately and he came up with the idea to dumb the game down to a disgusting level of monotonious module names, no matter how much it will take from the overall feeling of the game. It will be done, he said it.

I was outrageous even with the Trauma missile renaming (it does not sound good, as it is completely silly), not to mention the experimental/prototype wtf. Most of us who are playing from years know every module in the game by name. With this renaming plan Gnauton takes that away from us. A very bad decision - but a man wants to keep his job.

Yet it can be solved without generating more bittervets: please make an optional patch, so one who wish to play with the old names should still play with it. Killmail generating can be done with the new dumbed names. But I want my bloodclaw missiles back, and I want Catalyzed Cold-gas Thrusters back, with all the others. And you do not want another Jita siege.

^^ QFT

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Zevas
Infinite Origins
#63 - 2012-02-29 16:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zevas
Implant changes are nice.

The Meta level names suck and/or have the wrong ordering. Each level needs to inherently suggest an improvement. The current proposed names do not.

I would do something like this:

Meta Level 1: Experimental
Meta Level 2: Limited
Meta Level 3: Upgraded
Meta Level 4: Advanced

EDIT: Swapped them around a bit.

Agree with post further down. Limited needs a new name.
Rixiu
PonyTek
#64 - 2012-02-29 16:58:09 UTC
Not sure about the prototype/experimental/upgraded. In my world prototype and experimental is basically the same thing and it's a bit confusing.
Minmatar Citizen 769594585726
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-02-29 16:59:11 UTC
CCP's documentation is terrible. The least you could do is not go around breaking all the decent third-party docs.
Huey Pewy
#66 - 2012-02-29 16:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Huey Pewy
1. I agree that those new meta names are a bit weird.

Prototype = experimental
Upgraded: all those meta modules are upgrades of the T1 module.
Limited: doesn't that refer to the quantity of an item? I don't see how it could explain the stats.

2. I absolutely like the Hardwiring renames! I ignore them because they are so confusing atm. :p

3. You use a part of the old name with other modules. For example:

'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher = Prototype 'Arbalest' Light Missile Array
Compact 'Limos' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I = Limited 'Limos' Assault Missile Launcher I

I like that, why don't you use this on every module you rename. It would make both parties happy i think. For example:

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters = Limited 'Cold-Gas' 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
DJ Obsidian
RONA Legion
RONA Directorate
#67 - 2012-02-29 16:59:35 UTC
Some other thoughts.


There is nothing wrong with missile launcher meta names. everyone know that 'arbelast' is meta 4 and malkulth's are meta 1 etc...

If you really want to redo names on anything do it on freaking lasers. those are the most annoying to distinguish. oh and again Dont dumb down the game with easy names.
Skye Aurorae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-02-29 17:03:19 UTC
Zevas wrote:
Implant changes are nice.

The Meta level names suck and/or have the wrong ordering. Each level needs to inherently suggest an improvement. The current proposed names do not.

I would do something like this:

Meta Level 1: Limited
Meta Level 2: Augmented
Meta Level 3: Upgraded or Enhanced
Meta Level 4: Advanced


Get rid of limited all together, limited fells lesser than plain vanilla.

Also, augmented it nice, but it might cause confusion with the Augmented drones.

Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.

Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#69 - 2012-02-29 17:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanessa Vansen
Quote:
we've come up with a standardized global scheme for Meta Level 1-4 modules

That's the way to go!
However, the names ... there are better combinations ... see above

Quote:
Heavy Assault Missile Launchers have become Assault Missile Launchers

Assault Missile Launchers have become Light Missile Arrays

Standard Missile Launchers have become Light Missile Launchers

Siege Launchers have become Torpedo Launchers

Now, all you have to do is rename
Heavy Assault Missile to Assault Missile and you'll end up with

* Rockets and Rocket Launchers
* Light Missile and both Light Missile Launchers and Light Missile Arrays
* Assault Missiles and Assault Missile Launchers
* Heavy Missiles and Heavy Missile Launchers (since you didn't change anything here, right?)
* Cruise Missiles and Cruise Missile Launchers
* Torpedos and Torpedo Launchers

Do you see the beauty of a well elaborate naming?
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#70 - 2012-02-29 17:05:08 UTC
The missile change went badly because you trashed the functionality of being able to find what you wanted quickly and easily, not because you didn't talk about it enough. If you wanted to be helpfull fixing that (ie rolling back the names) would be a great start.

As for this attempt at breaking more stuff the changes to launchers looks like taking something slightly confusing and replacing it with something confusing... not sure what you think is gained there. For the tanking modules all that was needed was to insert the existing reflective/reactive/whichever into the name of all the meta mods, so a market serach could pull up all the variants applicable to a certain stat, completely renaming them with most basic generic format seems like taking out flavour for the sake of it.

Agree with others here, 'limited' being better than 'upgraded' is just full potato, at least with experimental vs prototype we already have meta 4 guns with prototype in the name so it makes a little more sense. (Although changing 'experimental' to something else certainly wouldn't hurt, personally I'd go with limited→improved→upgraded→prototype)

Now for the implants, and at least here you've identified a genuine case where too much flavour obscures functionality, if for no other reason than most people spend less time looking at/handling implants than they do other modules so the names tend not to sink in so easily, it's still a fairly clunky mouthfull for the names but at least the new system there follows some form of logic so +1 for that, this will actually help more people for less loss of flavourBig smile

Sadly you seem to have missed the naming of small/medium lasers, puttimg 'medium' named guns onto frigs causes more confusion in new players than any other naming in EVE, tbh the only 2 areas that badly needed attention to the names are implants and lasers, from the point of view of improving usability/consistency, somewhat surprised you haven't picked up on those.
Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-02-29 17:06:40 UTC
I'd like to have the meta levels something like this:

Meta Level 1: Advanced
Meta Level 2: Enhanced
Meta Level 3: Experimental
Meta Level 4: Upgraded

Why in this particular order you might ask? Well because it's in alphabetical order, and as such it will sort very nicely in all programs, but especially in the market.
Fantocis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-02-29 17:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fantocis
NO NO and NO! You are doing it wrong!!!

idea of simplifying names is grate but you are over reacting and going wrong direction. Get along CCP, don't throw things like this at ppl that fly around in internet space ships!

What you did with missiles already was misunderstanding now you screw launchers? Whats is wrong with HEAVY and just Assault missiles? Why you change things that do not change anything? What?

Siege and torpedo OK because that was confusing

For meta levels it should be similar to this:

Meta Level 0: Civilian

Meta Level 1: Standard

Meta Level 2: Upgraded

Meta Level 3: Experimental

Meta Level 4: Prototype

for hardeners, yes its confusing and it must be changed, but please leave Reactive, Magnetic, etc. because complexity is middle name of EVE if you want easy tasks go and play WOW or any thing like that and dishonor you family.

When you changed names for missiles that was terrible :) i mean Trauma missile? what? wtf you where thinking about what, a trauma? Mjolnir cold name, Nova hot name, Inferno just explodes by him self and then trauma? Shame on you, please change kinetic missile name because its hilarious

so please CCP pimp my ride!
Alex Cortex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-02-29 17:12:13 UTC
Not related to the topic per-se, but I want to point out that the first 'N' in Gnauton is upside-down. While you're fixing names, you might want to fix that one too, it's really bugging me. Thanks. Lol
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-02-29 17:13:10 UTC
Nice. Needless complexity is needless.
agrajag119
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-02-29 17:14:01 UTC
Global prefixes for meta items is simplifying things *too* far. Sure it's easy for a newbie - but the utility there is good for the short while it takes to learn the names.

After you've figure this out - your changes kills quick search and find capabilities. Either make market searches more granular (limit to slot / type / something else) or make the meta prefixes unique to item groups groups, hull upgrades have their prefixes, turrets have their own set (all turrets), missiles have theirs, and so on.

Add a little complexity and flavor back to keep things feeling unique and different. What you're proposing is the plain black and white label on everything plan. It's boring and monotonous.
Callic Veratar
#76 - 2012-02-29 17:16:05 UTC
Some points:

- 'Adaptive Nano Plating' should be 'Adaptive Invulnerability Plating'
- EM Ward should be replaced with EM Deflection
- Thermic Dissipation should be replaced with Thermic Deflection
- What are the 'Supplemental' Deflection Amplifiers? Supplemental was not a classification you listed in the blog
Axl Borlara
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-02-29 17:18:26 UTC
Implant names

Great!
Someone listened and had the common sense to keep the interesting part of the names AND make the overall name functional.

Meta 1-4

Oh dear.
I'll repeat what others have said.

Meta Level 1: Upgraded - fine. It's upgraded so better than normal
Meta Level 2: Limited - Limited is not an upgrade. It would be worse than the standard version. So bin that one.
Meta Level 3: Experimental - experimental is not necessarily better. Also sounds like it might break.
Meta Level 4: Prototype - means pretty much the same as experimental.

The good news is that it's not too late to fix it.
Think of four names which all mean better than standard. For bonus points, order them sensibly.
Failing that, how about adding the meta level to the name? m1, m2, m3, m4 etc?

Missile launchers

Good effort, but having just one type called Array rather than Launcher is wrong.
Katsina
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-02-29 17:18:34 UTC
Meta Level 5: Advanced
Meta Level 4: Improved
Meta Level 3: Kindergarten
Meta Level 2: Window Licker
Meta Level 1: CCP

I made my listing from the top down. I see the point in making more uniform names for a better reference-able and searchable database over-all. This will solve many problems with developmental naming conventions not always matching and having several duplicate names with either a ‘1’ there or not there and make it easier for lazy people to understand the game. This just seems like a lot of work going into something that does not make the game a better play experience or balanced for the majority of the players. So instead, CCP is dumbing down the game to the lowest common troglodyte level to make it easy enough for new people, idiots and lazy people to play.
Ceratin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-02-29 17:19:01 UTC
No need whatsoever for these stupid name changes, the whole point of an rpg is for stuff to have weird and wonderful names so you have to do abit of research to find out what your getting is better. The average eve player is not a 4 year old kindergarten pupil

Honestly who comes up with this ****? is there someone at ccp thats never played an mmo that just sits and thinks all day, i know lets ruin this, maybe you could just rename all the mods...

meta 1 heavy missile launcher :=> **** mod
meta 2 heavy missile launcher xxxx name :=> **** mod
meta 3... etc etc

heavy missile launcher II :=> good mod

Tada, no1 has to invest 5 seconds working out which is the best cos only one mod is called the 'good mod' right??
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-02-29 17:19:06 UTC
Just want to echo what some have said here and others have suggested before. Please add the ability to sort items by meta level. I think if you did that in conjunction with these name changes most of these over reactors in this thread will be appeased.