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CCP - FW What a waste of time.

Author
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-02-17 14:38:25 UTC
I can understand CCP wanting to allow meta-gaming in eve to keep things "real" and interesting for adults playing the game.

Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia you have to wonder if it's not just a game breaker.

You cannot get info because most of them dont even read the militia window anymore.
Many of them are in corps - this is true and they have their own chat channels.
However, looking at the militia window currently just after DT, there are plenty of people there.

I and a couple of other new people to FW couldn't get any information on antyhing.

Spies have run rampant to such an extent that the entire process of gainging new players to play FW seems to have completely broken down.

Intel doesn't really happen in the channel, no intel for some means we can't really fly the ships we'd like to.
No fleets because spies could too easily get into them means we can't even orchestrate a decent gank.

I can understand the many people who are happy to play FW right now and have already got into these closed groups, however for many of us who are high SP and just want to pewpew something without the hassle or needing a break from joining corps/alliances - it's a time waster to try and PVP without intel or collaboration.

CCP - this needs fixing desperately or just remove it. The necessary collaboration in low-sec as opposed to incursions in high-sec is completely different, and requires trust which cannot occur in your game - by your own design.

Have you considered any tools or ideas to help this along?
Or is it just going to continue to be another one of your half-baked ideas?

.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#2 - 2012-02-17 14:55:30 UTC
The intel exists, but you have to ask for it. The time when the militia channel was actively used for running intel has long past .. just do not ever ask for intel about some random mission system in high-sec, we are here to kill insurgent slaves, not rats Smile

Believe it or not, it was worse last year when paranoia was truly rampant ... everything is relative.

PS: If militia channel says that 100 are "online", you probably have half active and only half of those in the warzone .. so "plenty" may be overstatement.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#3 - 2012-02-17 15:07:24 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
It is just going to continue to be another one of [CCP's] half-baked ideas



It can still be fun though. I know you said you don't want to join corps but it really is the best way to get into fleets etc...find an active one and go pew pew your heart out.
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#4 - 2012-02-17 15:22:07 UTC
Why not form your own fleet with other new guys and go pew pew?

Or are you just another person who joins FW thinking they have a divine right to immediate access to everything a lot of corps have spent a lot I time, effort and isk creating?

No offense intended.
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-02-17 15:30:30 UTC
Gallactica wrote:
Why not form your own fleet with other new guys and go pew pew?

Or are you just another person who joins FW thinking they have a divine right to immediate access to everything a lot of corps have spent a lot I time, effort and isk creating?

No offense intended.


What a stupid answer, no offense.

Which is it the intel channel or the fleet these corps spend heaps of isk on ?

Really Roll

I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in the master plan.

I have already said it is a given that my perspective is going to be different from the melodrama queens who will obviously troll this thread because they have been doing FW for a longass time.

However, your opinion is about as valid as a 6 year old player commenting on the new player experience - I wouldn't know.

Same, your opinion isn't valid as a new player trying to get into FW and coming up against the harsh wall of silence when it comes to intel/fleets/TS.

If you can't understand what I'm saying, go to the next thread in the forum.
It's not some personal attack on corps doing what corps must do to survive.

It's an obvious flaw in the system that I'm pointing out and wondering if CCP in their rewrite/revisit of FW in the near future might do something about. If no inconsistencies are ever brought to light, then nothing will ever get fixed.

.

Vordak Kallager
Goryn Clade
#6 - 2012-02-17 15:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vordak Kallager
Revolution Rising wrote:
I:words:


You either sack up deal with the abuse for a little while until the old-hats get comfortable having you around and come to trust you a bit, or you join a FW player corporation.

I went the former route and it took a solid few months of nagging veteran FW guys to get into fleets and intel channels, following them around, putting up solid numbers on the killboard, and reporting accurate intel in whatever channels I had before I became "accepted" in the Minmatar FW crowd. However, those experiences made me a better pilot, more self-reliant, willing to go the extra mile and put in the 110% for the team and generally be a nice guy since I know how hard it is to get accepted to the "in-groups" of the militias. Honestly, FW is kind of like a Frat. You can pledge to it, but if you don't go through the hazing you aren't going to become a brother.

There ARE player corporations who take relatively new players and this is another great way to get involved in the militia since your corpmates will have gone through all that **** already and can help get you into fleets, show you what to do, etc. Different corps have different recruiting policies, but generally it is easier to join a Player corp than work your way up through the NPC militia corp.

If you're in the Amarr militia, you could try groups like The Peerage, Imperial Outlaws, Amarrian Retribution (they take anyone: exhibit a) Flyinghotpocket) and I'm sure there are others that would love to have a high SP pilot ready for pew. Or you can try a different militia, or you can go back to wherever you came from and cry about how ****** FW is, in which case, we didn't want you anyway. Lol

EDIT- If your point is to prove that FW is not "newb-friendly", then yes. You are correct. I don't know why people tote is as being a great environment for learning PVP. It's not. It is hard to get into fleets, into intel channels, etc. The pilots in FW have years of small-gang experience. It's not a place for a person to come to learn PvP and expect to be instantly great.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-02-17 15:42:43 UTC
so you are basically saying that it is CCPs fault that players:
1. make corporations
2. don't like strangers from NPC corps
3. don't like spies
4. don't use intel channel
5. ....
?

Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#8 - 2012-02-17 16:19:19 UTC
Been in FW for almost 3 years now....

Have to say....it is far from a waste of time.

It's what you make of it. Me? I'm in it for the 24/7 Eve-wide wardec. RP,drama, and missions are just for lolz on the side P

Started out as an unkown....joined a corp with a few friends.....made a name for oursleves....the rest is lots of dead squids in the process Cool (with plenty of my own as well....Big smile).

Joining FW and looking for the "easy" button is not going to happen.
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#9 - 2012-02-17 16:26:15 UTC
I understand exactly what your saying mate, and my previous post genuinly wasnt meant to offend.

But, you've made a wide sweeping statement that FW is a waste of time, you are wrong.

Ive lost count of the amount of times ive seen people instantly new to FW pretty much demanding that they be let into either a) a fleet theyve seen around or b) why their x isnt being picked up.

When i say time, effort and isk etc i mean exactly that - When we run T3 gangs example with corpies etc, how much isk do you think is on the line here? Most FW corps that i know of have been created from scratch from the ground upwards from a couple of members, recruited, trained FC's within there own ranks, learned tactics from mistakes / victories, improved pvp skill and put an awful lot on the line on a daily basis to get to the standard and expectations where they are today (some good and some not so good) and as i said, new people seem to have this expectation that FW is a tool for them to instantly be in the middle of this and cry if they dont get immediatly involved on how things are unfair.

You seriously expect someone that no-one has had any previous experience with should automatically be invited to fleet - Spying is one problem yes but thats not the only issue, who says your ship is fitted right for the fleet, who says you know what your doing just cos your "high sp", do you have the right comms installed, are you an arse on comms, are you a know-it-all, do you have your ships / fittings in the system we are forming or do we have to wait 20 mins for you to get there etc etc etc - So we should hold the fleet up until weve put you in the right ship for the fleet, right fittings for the fleet, sussed out if your an arse or not etc etc, i'm sorry but no. I hope you see my point.

I'm sorry to say that FW (in the main) isnt just a noobs playground for right or for wrong.

How long have you been in FW, a day, a week, a month, a year? have you just given up at the first hurdle? i dont know you so i really have no idea.

If you are pretty new, then do what others have done, go out, get some kills / losses, have some fun, get noticed and you will get into fleets / comms - if you cant be arsed and just want it all on a plate, then it just wont happen mate.
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#10 - 2012-02-17 17:35:34 UTC
It's a sandbox...why would you expect CCP to deliver you action? That's what makes this game great. Go out and get your own fights...don't expect them to be delivered to you with no work on your part. If you have that attitude you are playing the wrong game.

Good Luck

nom nom

Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-02-17 17:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
I realize you say you are not interested in joining a corp. That's fine. But I do believe you can still run pickup gangs on your own by just learning to be social, helpful, and network!. One of my guys whose KB is lesser than mine was actually made an FC for a small pickup gang a week ago. Did those guys know he wasn't that great? No. But he was simply a social guy who could fake it till he make it.

I've seen your KB and you obviously know what you're doing. Or at the least, you don't seem to be a liability. I would just suggest that you

a) develop more patience and accept the environment for what it is
b) socialize and network with those who you want to be your wingman.

Get your own comms, add each other to the contact list, and do your own thing.

Now, if however, what I just suggested sounds like too much work for you and you don't want to be the guy herding others out of the station, then join a corp who have established infrastructure. And if that isn't for you either, then FW is not for you.

CCP can make certain fixes to the game design. But they cannot compensate for many players who lack or don't wish to tap into the social skills that this game is also designed for. EVE is social darwinism. Meaning you have to rely on your own social skills as much as your technical skills to survive. I can point out several examples where I've applied my social skills to get what is needed to compensate for other elements that I lack that the general public thinks you need in order to survive. Namely high SP or l337 KB.

PS. Making general wide-sweeping statements will always get you trolled regardless of what the topic is.

EDIT: You've spent all but 5 days in the militia. That's not alot of time and you need more patience.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-02-17 17:56:20 UTC
You just have to get your name know, x up in Militia if you see a lot of friendlies in local, hell, even convo one of em and ask to get in the fleet and ask for what comms they are in.

Also, don't be a male appendage that swings between the legs.

FW is not a waste of time. Fights happen regularly in the FW zones of low sec.

1019 kills for Villore Accords Alliance
607 kills for Drunk 'n' Disorderly Alliance
56 (+231)for the newly formed Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy (+231 is for the month before the alliance was formed)

These are just their kills after Alliances were allowed into FW.

Then there's the rest of the Militia as well that's killin.

Then there's FW missioning also. That doesn't require any corporations, and it makes good ISKies.

Where's the waste of time again?

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-17 18:58:11 UTC
Google the amarr militia killboard, find out who is active in your time zone, then either join those corps or Convo some of them.

You are right, the militia channel is not used much but there invite only alternatives.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#14 - 2012-02-17 19:17:27 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
I can understand CCP wanting to allow meta-gaming in eve to keep things "real" and interesting for adults playing the game.

Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia you have to wonder if it's not just a game breaker.

You cannot get info because most of them dont even read the militia window anymore.
Many of them are in corps - this is true and they have their own chat channels.
However, looking at the militia window currently just after DT, there are plenty of people there.

I and a couple of other new people to FW couldn't get any information on antyhing.

Spies have run rampant to such an extent that the entire process of gainging new players to play FW seems to have completely broken down.

Intel doesn't really happen in the channel, no intel for some means we can't really fly the ships we'd like to.
No fleets because spies could too easily get into them means we can't even orchestrate a decent gank.

I can understand the many people who are happy to play FW right now and have already got into these closed groups, however for many of us who are high SP and just want to pewpew something without the hassle or needing a break from joining corps/alliances - it's a time waster to try and PVP without intel or collaboration.

CCP - this needs fixing desperately or just remove it. The necessary collaboration in low-sec as opposed to incursions in high-sec is completely different, and requires trust which cannot occur in your game - by your own design.

Have you considered any tools or ideas to help this along?
Or is it just going to continue to be another one of your half-baked ideas?



In summary..... I can't believe CCP is asking me exert effort so that I can carve out a niche for me to play in their sandbox game.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

Electra Gaterau
Thunderwaffles
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2012-02-17 19:54:48 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Google the amarr militia killboard, find out who is active in your time zone, then either join those corps or Convo some of them.

You are right, the militia channel is not used much but there invite only alternatives.


This.

As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me. Theres nothing wrong with growing a pair and venturing out on your own to begin with.

(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) Lol
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2012-02-17 20:36:12 UTC
Electra Gaterau wrote:
As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me.


Don't even wait that long. Explain in your application that you are a nubbin, you want to learn, and thrown in some wiseass crack that will put a smile on their face for good measure.

Electra Gaterau wrote:
(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) Lol


As long as you don't do it "stupidly," yes. "Suicide tackle" is a noble job in militia and many nubbins start out their careers this way. I did. After I got sick of doing this, I upgraded to cruisers... then to battlecruisers... then back to cruisers... then battleships... then specialty T2 ships (gawd I loved that Nemesis, no matter how much it sucked).
Jamradar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-02-17 21:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamradar
I don't get how this game works, it's not working like how I want it to work. These other people who was once new to FW themselves obviously don't know what they're talking about!!
CCP PLZ CHANGE GAME PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


there ya go, I shortened your whole argument into a quick time-sensitive small group of words.
you're welcome.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#18 - 2012-02-17 21:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
im pretty sure i read somewhere that the current lead game designer was opposed to FW when it was implemented, and that is one reason it hasn't been iterated on and basically ignored (excepting for recently allowing alliances in FW)

that true?

also what do you expect ccp to do to fix other FW players not liking/caring about you?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-02-17 22:08:17 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia....Spies have run rampant to such an extent


Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic

I'm sorry you failed in your spy attempts, m8m8. Lrn2playbetter
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-02-17 22:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
metagaming?! in MY eve?! I'll not have any of it!

edit: anyway, the culture of fear and paranoia that "spies" create is far more destructive than anything else they might do, so im not sure why dudes make a big deal out of it.
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