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Dev Blog: PLEX Rework - Follow Up

First post First post
Author
#81 - 2017-04-04 20:37:28 UTC
I think the idea of a Plex vault is faulty,

New Eden is a dangerous environment with risks (for traders and freelancers) and rewards (for pirates and gankers).

If you travel around with one old Plex (or soon 500 mini plex) you bound to get ganked when the risc vs reward favors that,

However CCP has made it possible to mitigate the risc vs reward factor by 1/500 coz carrying one mini plex around is soon possible.



The Plex vault is superfluous because the capsuleers can decide in an open world sandbox how low or high a risc they want to take Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Gallente Federation
#82 - 2017-04-07 01:27:08 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
I think the idea of a Plex vault is faulty,

New Eden is a dangerous environment with risks (for traders and freelancers) and rewards (for pirates and gankers).

If you travel around with one old Plex (or soon 500 mini plex) you bound to get ganked when the risc vs reward favors that,



Umm, no, you are the only one faulty here.

ISK is not an item you carry around in your cargo hold, or pod.

Plex will be as it should have been the whole time, currency.
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2017-04-10 18:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Con Solo wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey guys,

Since the release of the PLEX Changes blog a few days back, we've been monitoring feedback, looking at suggestions from the community, and discussing internally what the best course of action is as we move forward with the changes that are coming to PLEX.

Today we have a follow up blog from Team Size Matters for you guys, with a little additional information and a some key changes to how we intend to roll this out.

Once again, thanks for the candid (and sometimes colorful) feedback and discussion over the course of the last few days. We're always open to listening to the concerns and suggestions of our pilots, and looking at ways we can continue to improve the EVE Universe with your help.

Check out the Devblog here, and feel free to leave your feedback in this thread.


You still have not allayed the concerns of many players with regards to the PLEX Vault. Giving pilots the ability to immediately transport PLEX through the galaxy renders the PLEX trade completely moot. PLEX price depends on what region it is sold for because of the risk involved in moving PLEX. Now the trade will be abused by characters who will transport PLEX instantaneously to be sold at other stations. The market will go flat.

Please do not make PLEX a special Item.
Sorry to tell you but there has NEVER been a reason to haul plex from one system to another aside from RMTing or stupidity.
This change does nothing that could not be done at any other time.

I traded plex for a long time all over New Eden and never once undocked with a plex in a ship.

The only players who need to be concerned with the Plex vault ability to move plex are RMT'rs because they will simply stand out so much.. (Won't stop it happening though)



Don't forget the obvious, we have an influx of new players who are buying plex. They are neither stupid or RMT'rs they simply do not know.

Whilst some seem to think that a death sentence is perfectly reasonable for not knowing Every aspect of EVE, and some claim that is the reason they joined the game, I find that hardly credible, no one joins a game because it is fun to be screwed over. Maybe they just liked the chance to screw others over?

CCP however see that new players, buying and losing plex the first time they spend money know perfectly well, as we should, that that is an unmitigated disaster for them and destroys the likelihood of them staying in the game, and spending money again, ever, and took action accordingly.

They would have been stupid, negligent and downright suicidal to do otherwise. Apologies for those who mourn the loss of opportunity to profit from others distress, but HTFU!

CCP does not owe players the right, or are players entitled to the perpetual suffering of younger players, at the expense of the wider game.
#84 - 2017-04-11 19:43:44 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
Don't forget the obvious, we have an influx of new players who are buying plex. They are neither stupid or RMT'rs they simply do not know.

...

CCP however see that new players, buying and losing plex the first time they spend money know perfectly well, as we should, that that is an unmitigated disaster for them and destroys the likelihood of them staying in the game, and spending money again, ever, and took action accordingly.

Losing PLEX to a gank has been a thing for years and CCP hasn't done a thing to mitigate it. Why now?

I guess a change of heart is possible. They did announce hi-sec PvE changes at FF. You've got a fairly sizable population in hi-sec so maybe CCP's attitude is changing. Not sure I believe that theory.

The clone-state change did bring a bunch of new players (ohai). Perhaps they had a large enough wave of chargebacks which triggered sanctions by their payment processor(s).


#85 - 2017-04-12 04:57:00 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Con Solo wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey guys,

Since the release of the PLEX Changes blog a few days back, we've been monitoring feedback, looking at suggestions from the community, and discussing internally what the best course of action is as we move forward with the changes that are coming to PLEX.

Today we have a follow up blog from Team Size Matters for you guys, with a little additional information and a some key changes to how we intend to roll this out.

Once again, thanks for the candid (and sometimes colorful) feedback and discussion over the course of the last few days. We're always open to listening to the concerns and suggestions of our pilots, and looking at ways we can continue to improve the EVE Universe with your help.

Check out the Devblog here, and feel free to leave your feedback in this thread.


You still have not allayed the concerns of many players with regards to the PLEX Vault. Giving pilots the ability to immediately transport PLEX through the galaxy renders the PLEX trade completely moot. PLEX price depends on what region it is sold for because of the risk involved in moving PLEX. Now the trade will be abused by characters who will transport PLEX instantaneously to be sold at other stations. The market will go flat.

Please do not make PLEX a special Item.
Sorry to tell you but there has NEVER been a reason to haul plex from one system to another aside from RMTing or stupidity.
This change does nothing that could not be done at any other time.

I traded plex for a long time all over New Eden and never once undocked with a plex in a ship.

The only players who need to be concerned with the Plex vault ability to move plex are RMT'rs because they will simply stand out so much.. (Won't stop it happening though)



Don't forget the obvious, we have an influx of new players who are buying plex. They are neither stupid or RMT'rs they simply do not know.

Whilst some seem to think that a death sentence is perfectly reasonable for not knowing Every aspect of EVE, and some claim that is the reason they joined the game, I find that hardly credible, no one joins a game because it is fun to be screwed over. Maybe they just liked the chance to screw others over?

CCP however see that new players, buying and losing plex the first time they spend money know perfectly well, as we should, that that is an unmitigated disaster for them and destroys the likelihood of them staying in the game, and spending money again, ever, and took action accordingly.

They would have been stupid, negligent and downright suicidal to do otherwise. Apologies for those who mourn the loss of opportunity to profit from others distress, but HTFU!

CCP does not owe players the right, or are players entitled to the perpetual suffering of younger players, at the expense of the wider game.
This influx of new players I gather you are referring to Alpha's? Many of whom will never buy plex as it is not part of "free to play".
And while yes there does need to be some limited protection for "new" players buying plex, that protection could be handled by a warning stating something like "It is not safe to carry this item in your cargo hold" redeem it where you plan on using it.

CCP also does not "owe" new players more protection than is afforded to anyone else. Warn them of the risks for sure but never remove risk.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Gallente Federation
#86 - 2017-04-17 09:30:58 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Con Solo wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey guys,

Since the release of the PLEX Changes blog a few days back, we've been monitoring feedback, looking at suggestions from the community, and discussing internally what the best course of action is as we move forward with the changes that are coming to PLEX.

Today we have a follow up blog from Team Size Matters for you guys, with a little additional information and a some key changes to how we intend to roll this out.

Once again, thanks for the candid (and sometimes colorful) feedback and discussion over the course of the last few days. We're always open to listening to the concerns and suggestions of our pilots, and looking at ways we can continue to improve the EVE Universe with your help.

Check out the Devblog here, and feel free to leave your feedback in this thread.


You still have not allayed the concerns of many players with regards to the PLEX Vault. Giving pilots the ability to immediately transport PLEX through the galaxy renders the PLEX trade completely moot. PLEX price depends on what region it is sold for because of the risk involved in moving PLEX. Now the trade will be abused by characters who will transport PLEX instantaneously to be sold at other stations. The market will go flat.

Please do not make PLEX a special Item.
Sorry to tell you but there has NEVER been a reason to haul plex from one system to another aside from RMTing or stupidity.
This change does nothing that could not be done at any other time.

I traded plex for a long time all over New Eden and never once undocked with a plex in a ship.

The only players who need to be concerned with the Plex vault ability to move plex are RMT'rs because they will simply stand out so much.. (Won't stop it happening though)



Don't forget the obvious, we have an influx of new players who are buying plex. They are neither stupid or RMT'rs they simply do not know.

Whilst some seem to think that a death sentence is perfectly reasonable for not knowing Every aspect of EVE, and some claim that is the reason they joined the game, I find that hardly credible, no one joins a game because it is fun to be screwed over. Maybe they just liked the chance to screw others over?

CCP however see that new players, buying and losing plex the first time they spend money know perfectly well, as we should, that that is an unmitigated disaster for them and destroys the likelihood of them staying in the game, and spending money again, ever, and took action accordingly.

They would have been stupid, negligent and downright suicidal to do otherwise. Apologies for those who mourn the loss of opportunity to profit from others distress, but HTFU!

CCP does not owe players the right, or are players entitled to the perpetual suffering of younger players, at the expense of the wider game.
This influx of new players I gather you are referring to Alpha's? Many of whom will never buy plex as it is not part of "free to play".
And while yes there does need to be some limited protection for "new" players buying plex, that protection could be handled by a warning stating something like "It is not safe to carry this item in your cargo hold" redeem it where you plan on using it.

CCP also does not "owe" new players more protection than is afforded to anyone else. Warn them of the risks for sure but never remove risk.



It can be argued that "I have played longer than you, sucks to be you" is something that needs a little touch of balancing if CCP are not to waste all their hard work. Now players that have spent time improving their skills, and honing their tactics, should certainly have a natural advantage. "I know and you don't " is not really something that deserves rewards on the scale of plex drops.
Solitaire.
#87 - 2017-04-18 15:09:48 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
rofl

so you, let me get this right.. the 300 free aurum you gave us, will eventually convert to 1k plex, which essentially is a 30 day game time down the road for free?


No it converts to 300 plex. Or 0.3 plex. Be thankful you get that at all, instead of the previous trimming of the low fruit.

Changes look good to me.



i honestly dont care since i lost well over 64k aurum in dust, which ccp never honored moving over. that ended my MT affair with them.. forever.

To be fair thats your own fault, it was not hard to be competitive for free at all.
Aurum was pointless cause protosuits only cost 100-200k a suit and were easy to skil into.
Solitaire.
#88 - 2017-04-18 15:15:07 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
ashton wiler wrote:
Still not good enough. People paid real money for something you said you would honor. The fact you considered theft of your players is shameful and had you gone through with it would have been a crime and illegal. Now your saying your going to abolish aurum tokens its still THEFT! You created aurum now you get to deal with any problems its caused, not your players. Delaying the conversion is also not tolerable, your essentially freezing someone's bank account. Money they spent to support the further development of eve and supported your paycheck and livelihood. This is fraud. You don't get to take the easy way out here. Your attempting to steal people's money. Its your game and you can do whatever you want but the stain on your reputation not to mention the legal position your putting the company in is astonishing to steal a few bucks from your customers. You are talking about wiping out thousands maybe tens of thousands of dollars worth of money. In what world is that acceptable? Not this one plenty of laws cover this sort of fraud. For your sake I hope you reconsider your stance on aurum. I dont always agree with the things ccp does with eve but this is the first time ive been ashamed of the company enough not to want to spend my hard earned money supporting it.

I've read your newest dev blog just wow unacceptable, shameful I still am just disappointed. Welcome to the ****** developers list. This is a new low. Unsubbed...

Problem CCP is facing (I'm not defending their actions, just putting forth a different scenario) they gave everyone 300 AUR as a xmas gift, converting all that to NewPlex at the time of the changes would have a massive effect on the Plex market.
Leaving the conversion of amounts less than 1,000 is not ideal but the best option over just losing it.
P
I have 11 characters received the Xmas gift, I'm ok waiting a while to get free newplex from CCP.

Plex prices are too high though. You should be able to get yours to use for yourself or help crash the market to enocurage more little guys to be able to participate in the market
Solitaire.
#89 - 2017-04-18 15:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Kevin Dogguide wrote:
I think dev's should give people, who have 30-day PLEX already purchased or will have it when the changes are in place, to choose if they want to have their PLEX broken up or not.

I have PLEX sitting in Jita as I have been awaiting news for drilling platforms. I've been waiting a long time. Apparently so have many others.

I didn't purchase PLEX wanting or hoping that it would be broken up into parts, thus making more ISK transactions and greater fees. Give players (like me) the choice to do what they want to an item they have already purchased. You're changing the rules to a game after people have sunk real money, whether or not they want or agree to the changes.

Clearly PLEX as a monthly account top-up will remain a 30 day thing (as dev blog explicitly states), but if you break up all the PLEX already in EVE then people are forced to buy new PLEX to use it for an Omega state.

I'm not so sure breaking up PLEX will be in my best interest. There hasn't been anything that I've read suggesting that I will benefit in any way.

"Breaking Plex" as you call it will do nothing to the value of your plex, it will simply appear differently.

1 Plex = 500 NewPlex = Same isk / game time value it has now.

Thats not true.
Day 1 neueplex will cost 1.2b no matter where you look to scam people who don't pay attention. Will no be acquirable at legitimate prices.
When the scam where's off expect plex to inflate from 2-2.5m to 3m plus. It's gonna end up cost 1.5b to 2b+ to play each month.
There's no wiggle room on an item only worth 2m, to have a spread of market prices it's going to inflate wildy just as people put up the orders that were taken down.
#90 - 2017-04-19 17:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard TheLordOfDance
Quince Ozuwara wrote:
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:
Seeing as the problems with the PLEX Vault was not addressed in the blog I will just quote what I wrote the last time on how you could fix peoples main concerns with it (mine included).

Not liking, or not agreeing with, a new feature isn't something the Devs are going to address; the Q& A's posted to date make that abundantly clear.

PLEX Vault, and the removal of physical game time and real money theft from the game is welcome. Steal/ gank/ scam all of the in-game items to your hearts content, but it's past time that CCP remove PLEX tanking from the game for good.


Sorry for the confusion (and the late follow up). When I said "addressed" I didn't mean "changed to how I wan't it to work" but rather "mentioned at all". This is quite a big change and if it's intentional that PLEX will become a "safe" currency with this change then so be it, it's CCP's decisions to make!

But if so, since a lot of people have raced concern over just this specific aspect of the change, it might be nice to have them at least say "Yes, it's intentional." and not walk around the subject while addressing other concerns people have.

My intention was only to again post feedback that could have been lost in the constant stream of saltiness that was the other forum thread.

Edit: Also, if it's the intention to make PLEX a safe item why have the option to take it out of the vault at all?
#91 - 2017-04-20 11:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Kevin Dogguide wrote:
I think dev's should give people, who have 30-day PLEX already purchased or will have it when the changes are in place, to choose if they want to have their PLEX broken up or not.

I have PLEX sitting in Jita as I have been awaiting news for drilling platforms. I've been waiting a long time. Apparently so have many others.

I didn't purchase PLEX wanting or hoping that it would be broken up into parts, thus making more ISK transactions and greater fees. Give players (like me) the choice to do what they want to an item they have already purchased. You're changing the rules to a game after people have sunk real money, whether or not they want or agree to the changes.

Clearly PLEX as a monthly account top-up will remain a 30 day thing (as dev blog explicitly states), but if you break up all the PLEX already in EVE then people are forced to buy new PLEX to use it for an Omega state.

I'm not so sure breaking up PLEX will be in my best interest. There hasn't been anything that I've read suggesting that I will benefit in any way.

"Breaking Plex" as you call it will do nothing to the value of your plex, it will simply appear differently.

1 Plex = 500 NewPlex = Same isk / game time value it has now.

Thats not true.
Day 1 neueplex will cost 1.2b no matter where you look to scam people who don't pay attention. Will no be acquirable at legitimate prices.
When the scam where's off expect plex to inflate from 2-2.5m to 3m plus. It's gonna end up cost 1.5b to 2b+ to play each month.
There's no wiggle room on an item only worth 2m, to have a spread of market prices it's going to inflate wildy just as people put up the orders that were taken down.
If the cost to plex an account rises too much above current prices (which CCP has so far ensured doesn't happen) you can except to see online numbers slowly wane more. I don't think that would be good for CCP's bottom line.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Arkoth 24
#92 - 2017-04-21 07:06:42 UTC
Just a small feedback.

1. IMHO new "mini-PLEX" would be just the same "premium currency" as AUR is, so it would be better to keep the name "Aurum" for it. Even if PLEX has such a history.

2. "PLEX-vault" would be just OK as another "wallet", since PLEX will become a currency, not an item.

3. It would be nice to see something like "expired PLEX" and "expired aurum token" as a commodiry then.

Thanks.
#93 - 2017-04-21 07:16:24 UTC
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:


Edit: Also, if it's the intention to make PLEX a safe item why have the option to take it out of the vault at all?


So the option for you to sell it on the market still exists, that is why you can pull it out of the vault.
Which is basically the same answer for anybody thinking Plex still will not be an item and just a currency...it will remain to be both, the Gold Standard of EvE.
#94 - 2017-04-22 21:07:29 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:


Edit: Also, if it's the intention to make PLEX a safe item why have the option to take it out of the vault at all?


So the option for you to sell it on the market still exists, that is why you can pull it out of the vault.
Which is basically the same answer for anybody thinking Plex still will not be an item and just a currency...it will remain to be both, the Gold Standard of EvE.


That could easily be accomplished by just letting you putt it on the market straight from the PLEX vault. Having you pull it out to sell is just introducing complexity for complexity's sake.
Only actual reason I can think of is to be able to say that it's not a safe item because you can technically put it in your cargo hold if you want to.
#95 - 2017-04-22 23:06:33 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:


Edit: Also, if it's the intention to make PLEX a safe item why have the option to take it out of the vault at all?


So the option for you to sell it on the market still exists, that is why you can pull it out of the vault.
Which is basically the same answer for anybody thinking Plex still will not be an item and just a currency...it will remain to be both, the Gold Standard of EvE.

Do you understand why that is just so redundant. The plex vault itself is just advertising for CCP's money grubbing NEX store.
Sadly the "Pilot License" section in the character sheet will remain all but useless. (estimated market price for plex isn't even kept current, so why is it even there)

Hoping advertising plex so blatantly in game will encourage players to buy more plex for overpriced crap from the NEX store - Will fail.

And I'm really sorry but Plex will no longer be an "item" - It is to be pure currency, by design..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Gallente Federation
#96 - 2017-04-24 14:40:47 UTC
Will these plex changes herald in the end of subscription based gameplay and CCP only being funded by
NEX crap vanity items being sold to people with more money than sense?
#97 - 2017-04-25 13:46:38 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Hoping advertising plex so blatantly in game will encourage players to buy more plex for overpriced crap from the NEX store - Will fail.

Depends on how they manage the store. Offer items that people want to buy for a reasonable price and they'll buy it. Seems easy right? Yet most games developers fail hard on the second and can't quite figure out the first.

eg. Station avatar clothing probably won't have a lot of appeal if it's priced north of 25-50 miniPlex. If and when we get the ability for station avatars to mingle then those items would become quite a bit more popular. Ben's arm was a freebie I got with the sub package I bought. While it fits the character concept I have for him I wouldn't have bought store currency for one. EVE-Central is telling me between 2M and 20M which is 4-40 cents. I suppose I could part with that. Lol

Good looking SKINs would probably command a higher price. Now all they need are SKINs that look good on the ships that folks actually fly.

Considering how fragile people consider the code base I wonder if they really don't have a lot of choice how the PLEX vault is implemented. For mini-plex to be tradable it needs to be an inventory item. The wallet can only handle currency. Sticking it in our cargoholds is the least risky change they can make.

Using the PLEX logo is a mistake. Overexposure is just going to inoculate people. Offering items that people want to buy for a reasonable price is the best way to make it work.

Short Bus Syndicate
#98 - 2017-04-27 22:24:09 UTC
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/aurum-and-content-pack-sales-to-end-on-2017-05-02 is still unclear on whether all Content Pack codes need to be redeemed before May 9th. Do they become invalid after that? Or give some microplex instead? Or give only their items?
#99 - 2017-04-27 23:39:27 UTC
Drabbin Mishi wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/aurum-and-content-pack-sales-to-end-on-2017-05-02 is still unclear on whether all Content Pack codes need to be redeemed before May 9th. Do they become invalid after that? Or give some microplex instead? Or give only their items?



you might want to redeem them, seeing as waiting on an answer from CCP has proven to come after the fact.
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2017-05-01 18:46:09 UTC
Drabbin Mishi wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/aurum-and-content-pack-sales-to-end-on-2017-05-02 is still unclear on whether all Content Pack codes need to be redeemed before May 9th. Do they become invalid after that? Or give some microplex instead? Or give only their items?


Redeem them if you have them. Not really that hard to comprehend.
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