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Dev Blog: PLEX Rework - Follow Up

First post First post
Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#41 - 2017-03-21 21:33:49 UTC
Kevin Dogguide wrote:
I think dev's should give people, who have 30-day PLEX already purchased or will have it when the changes are in place, to choose if they want to have their PLEX broken up or not.

I have PLEX sitting in Jita as I have been awaiting news for drilling platforms. I've been waiting a long time. Apparently so have many others.

I didn't purchase PLEX wanting or hoping that it would be broken up into parts, thus making more ISK transactions and greater fees. Give players (like me) the choice to do what they want to an item they have already purchased. You're changing the rules to a game after people have sunk real money, whether or not they want or agree to the changes.

Clearly PLEX as a monthly account top-up will remain a 30 day thing (as dev blog explicitly states), but if you break up all the PLEX already in EVE then people are forced to buy new PLEX to use it for an Omega state.

I'm not so sure breaking up PLEX will be in my best interest. There hasn't been anything that I've read suggesting that I will benefit in any way.

"Breaking Plex" as you call it will do nothing to the value of your plex, it will simply appear differently.

1 Plex = 500 NewPlex = Same isk / game time value it has now.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Molden Heath Angels
#42 - 2017-03-21 22:12:44 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Con Solo wrote:
I'm not talking about activating PLEX or even purchasing PLEX for the purpose of activating. I'm talking about players who purchase PLEX w/real money to pump isk into their wallets. They will fill a buy order in their current system if they don't mind the loss of 20-30m when it means they don't have to travel all the way to Jita to get the best price. Of course they could just activate the PLEX on their alt and sell at Jita then transfer the isk. The fact that there is no way to transfer PLEX instantly creates a market where players either make that mistake, or when players pop someone moving PLEX and just want to liquidate in their current region no hassles. PLEX must remain exclusively a tangible movable object for purposes of buy orders. The margins between buys and sells, as well as regional disparity, will cease to exist if the Vault is introduced.


This relies on a lot of assumptions, namely a lot of stupid and that aforementioned ignorance of mechanics, both of which seem unlikely to change as a result of the PLEX vault.

First off, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of PLEX is already redeemed in Jita. That's where the best Buy price is, so the only reason to transport it somewhere else is to put up a Sell order. Any higher buy prices are likely scam orders or one of the above ignorant individuals. If you even have access to a station with such an order you can just redeem your PLEX there before selling it if you bought it with real money.

On top of that this all relies on the aforementioned ignorance of the mechanics. Anyone, no matter how remotely located, can make a trade alt and buy stuff in Jita. It then takes a grand total of 10k ISK to contract that item to their main, at which point it can be remotely activated no matter where in the universe you are.

In short, there's already basically no reason for these disparities to exist, but they still do, because people are bad at reading, game mechanics, and economics. None of these seem likely to change since nowhere in the dev blog do the lines "fixed stupid" appear.


Nice amount of assumptions right there good sir.

Big portion of people are not perfectionists who care about few million isk or making jita alts. It's not that they are stupid they just don't care so someone who cares can haul that stuff and get a little bit isk for it. Also prices have historically gone comfortably up and down so you can make quite nice profit if you are not in hurry.

It's not like it takes down eve economy but dumbing down everything doesn't seem best way to do it.

I wouldn't expect much since afaik game has gone pretty much magical pony mode, no one even cares about belt rats anymore it just doesn't make money unless you are multiboxing supercapitals.


Laoshi Wang
Exul Fossores
#43 - 2017-03-21 22:13:52 UTC
Praise to the EVE team at CCP for listening to and reacting on player (customer) feedback so quickly! Very rare nowadays.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#44 - 2017-03-21 22:25:40 UTC
woohoo can't wait for my 7 miniplex to show up

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#45 - 2017-03-21 22:55:25 UTC
What if players could not put PLEX back into the PLEX vault, just out of it?

Keep current PLEX activation menu idea filled with the new PLEX options.

Just have the wizard select the source; PLEX vault or local hanger.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Cade Windstalker
#46 - 2017-03-21 23:23:46 UTC
Laechyd Eldgorn wrote:
Nice amount of assumptions right there good sir.

Big portion of people are not perfectionists who care about few million isk or making jita alts. It's not that they are stupid they just don't care so someone who cares can haul that stuff and get a little bit isk for it. Also prices have historically gone comfortably up and down so you can make quite nice profit if you are not in hurry.

It's not like it takes down eve economy but dumbing down everything doesn't seem best way to do it.

I wouldn't expect much since afaik game has gone pretty much magical pony mode, no one even cares about belt rats anymore it just doesn't make money unless you are multiboxing supercapitals.


First off, I tried to label all of my assumptions in there, but the main one is pretty much that people will continue to fail to read, transport PLEX stupidly, and thus lose expensive Kestrels. If that wasn't clear enough then consider this formal notification that I consider that to be an assumption on my part, but not a particularly far reaching one.

After all you can't patch stupid.

Also that note about PLEX prices has literally nothing to do with what I said, or with this change.

Nothing here is being "dumbed down". If you put PLEX in your cargo it's going to be just as easy to lose, and only very very slightly easier to avoid doing that entirely if you know what you're doing at all remotely.

You appear to have been somewhat misinformed about Belt Rats... those have never been a top-tier income activity and they still aren't. People playing around with Supers and Titans run Anomalies. Belt Ratting in Low and Null is still an intro PvE activity, just as it always has been in High Sec for ages, and people still do it when they can't or won't do Anoms, Missions, or any of the other dozen things that have always paid better.
Jerel Andomer
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#47 - 2017-03-22 00:14:11 UTC
Quote:
Our current plan is that PLEX will only be redeemed for game time in 30 day chunks, just like now. If you were worried about seeing cyno alts subbed for 3 hours at a time, don’t worry.
Could you be more transparent?

Why would players be worried about having more flexibility in how we pay for our play. The only people who care are the accountants because they know and -Hint Hint- so do we that a lot of players would only sub their accounts for the time period they actually want to play for.

It's cool that you don't want to do this but don't pretend like you're doing it for our benefit.

Just Frig It.

Aves Asio
#48 - 2017-03-22 00:21:13 UTC
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#49 - 2017-03-22 01:09:34 UTC
Aves Asio wrote:
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?


The discontinuing of Aurum.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Professor JinMine
Project Fruit House
#50 - 2017-03-22 04:55:25 UTC
Quote:
Hopefully, with adequate warning, orders can be set up with release date in mind to minimize wasted fees.


So you will give us 90 days notice, right?
Caitlyn Rempal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2017-03-22 05:25:09 UTC
My biggest concern is the HUGE Plex vault being forced into the inventory window - PLEASE just make the vault accessible in the main menu and on the neocom like how we'd access the store in the current implementation. We know the cross-linking is already doable - we do it with skins for example, already.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#52 - 2017-03-22 06:58:20 UTC
Team Size Matters wrote:
Next up: Aurum conversion for players with Aurum balances of 1000 or less. The goal behind the initial plan was to minimize devaluation of PLEX at launch due to Aurum stockpiles entering the market, which is still a big priority, but, we hear you loud and clear that leaving some balances to not be converted is not a good enough solution.

This is what you get from our feedback? Players are pissed that you would just delete their <1000 aurum (and some of them paid RL cash for that currency) not how PLEX would devaluate. In terms of how you get money from players you are walking on thin ice here. Carefull to not fell into cold water.
Still didn't see CSM statement about this proposal. None of them thought it would just be stealing from playerbase?
Vincent Athena wrote:
Another way to minimize shock to the new-plex market is to convert AUR under 1000 at the rate of 140 AU per month. It would take 7 months to get to zero, but it would be smoother than one big step.

Listen to The Man.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Luc Chastot
#53 - 2017-03-22 07:05:52 UTC
Got a few questions:

1. Regarding no game time shorter than 30 days:
a) Can't you create a new clone state for that?
b) Can't you offer weeks instead of hours?
2. Are you planning to offer MCT in smaller chunks of time?

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Lavayar
ANGELGARD.
Red Alliance
#54 - 2017-03-22 08:49:40 UTC
And what about PLEX Vault? Will it be removed? It is one of substantial points.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#55 - 2017-03-22 11:23:42 UTC
Still the same ridiculocity.
Especially ridiculous is a claim of "devaluation of PLEX". It won't "devalue" for more than a single month, if at all.
People would rather use up their AUR stock to prolong their own accounts than to crash the market with PLEX.
And there was never a reason to "stockpile" AUR in first place.
Somebody lost their brains over this topic.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Bantara
Dolmite Cornerstone
#56 - 2017-03-22 12:05:46 UTC
I was not concerned about 3-hr cyno alts.
I was interested in not having to measure my availability to play the game in increments of months.
Bantara
Dolmite Cornerstone
#57 - 2017-03-22 12:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bantara
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Kevin Dogguide wrote:
I think dev's should give people, who have 30-day PLEX already purchased or will have it when the changes are in place, to choose if they want to have their PLEX broken up or not.

Uh....
You're _badly_ mistaken.
All plex will be broken up into 500.
If you want to get 30 days of game time, you use 500 plex (after they're broken up) to get 30 days of game time.
There's absolutely no difference there. No need to buy new plex. I have no idea where you got that idea from.


Cade Windstalker wrote:
The only way this actually destroys your gameplay is if the vast majority of the playerbase suddenly starts reading available information, which seems unlikely.


Live example in the thread.
B Paone
Doomheim
#58 - 2017-03-22 12:39:28 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
For the love of mothershippin' god, CCP, we just told you loud and clear that theft is a felony, but you want to steal at least something so badly you're going for aurum tokens? Can you do anything without theft?

Also, the word "adjust" rubbed me wrong. I realize asking for warranties from CCP FullCon, being a full con and ****, is not really a warranty, but please spell out the following for me: "THE CONVERSION OF AURUM ACCOUNTS UNDER 1000 WILL GO AT THE SAME RATE AS THOSE ABOVE 1000, WHICH IS 7:1". Just to assure us "adjust" wasn't referring to the ratio.

Also, please state directly that THE VAULT STAYS. I'm desperate for the ganker tears, and the tastiest of them all, RMTears.


Son, you need to calm down and read your ToS and EULA. They aren't stealing anything. They already owned everything in everyone's hangar and game wallet. We don't pay for ownership of digital items here; we pay to rent them, with CCP retaining full control.

At least CCP listens to feedback. Ever play a game where the devs didn't do that? Try SWTOR sometime - if you can stomach how "accessible" it's been made. (Would you believe me if I told you that, once upon a time, one had to put a little thought into their characters' builds there? Seems so long ago. And don't get me started on Galactic Starfighter...)

This May will mark my 20-year anniversary as an online gamer. Take the observation as you will, but this is definitely one of the more responsive and respectable game companies I've seen. They ain't EA. They ain't Ubi. They ain't Perfect World or Turbine or Frontier or any of those other money-grubbin' wanks.

Try not to fire off on these people with the same reckless abandon one would reserve for the aforementioned. (Or don't. I ain't your parole officer, probably.)
El Geo
Warcrows
Shattered Foundations
#59 - 2017-03-22 13:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
Maybe some confusion lay in the wording of

Team Size Matters wrote:

Smaller PLEX

The first component of our plan is focused on making PLEX more flexible. Currently, PLEX is rather large. By always existing as a one-month chunk of subscription time, PLEX can be cumbersome to buy and trade. We think it would be great if it could be broken into smaller units that fit your needs rather than always being bound to the size of 30 days. With that in mind, our first planned change is to convert every existing PLEX into 500 PLEX. After the change, anything you could get for 1 Plex from CCP will instead require 500 Plex. This new PLEX granularity will allow us to sell smaller PLEX packages, and allow you to trade whatever amounts you like with each other.


Personally I think it would be amazing if players could get gametime in 5 day increments and would think it a pretty popular choice for more casual players.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2017-03-22 13:47:23 UTC
Idea for the aurum tokens:
Make them a useless vanity item and give the people who still have them the equivalent in new plex items.
Call it a legacy item from EVE days gone by and let them brag about them without any redemption value?