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[March] Balance Tweaks: Fighters, Supercarriers & Burst Projectors

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Martin Vanzyl
EVE University
Ivy League
#401 - 2017-03-16 14:07:52 UTC
Somebody mentioned the latest economic report as a reason for the carrier fighter nerf, and I rarely pay attention to those economic reports, but my interest was peaked. Two clicks later and I'm staring at the Isk Sink and Faucet's graph and
WTF?!Shockedhttps://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Feb_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png

Something, starting in mid April 2016 has caused Bounty Payouts to absolutely shoot into the stratosphere! https://updates.eveonline.com/date/2016-04-27/

The Citadel/Caps expansion.

Between then and now Bounty Payout has gone from a level of 1Tril Isk to peaking in Mid February 2017 at 2.2 TRILLION ISK, whilst the Sinks barely changed at all.

Its NOT a good idea to just INJECT that amount of money into your economy to that extent that quickly. That leads to currency devaluation and money oversupply. Google a bit to see why that's BAD.

CCP can see what ship/activity is earning these the most, I assume. So if this is what they have to do to keep EVE's economy afloat... and by extension, the game going, which puts food on their tables, keeps the lights on, by all means.
Trevize Demerzel
#402 - 2017-03-16 15:15:59 UTC
So finally got some time to play with the Burst projector changes... Went off to an anom and tested the "Target Illumination Burst Projector".

I'm left with.... hmmm... what's the point? Granted this is PVE.... cause ya know, not like I'm going to play/test right off in a PVP battle. So I put the target burst right in the middle of the rats and all the rats kept chasing after my fighters and I noticed basically nothing in increased DPS from the fighters.

I'm left with, "is this thing even working, at all?"

Anyway.. I'll equip and test the others as I get time to do so. Leaving a big "meh" so what feeling at present tho.

-
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#403 - 2017-03-16 16:44:00 UTC
Trevize Demerzel wrote:
So finally got some time to play with the Burst projector changes... Went off to an anom and tested the "Target Illumination Burst Projector".

I'm left with.... hmmm... what's the point? Granted this is PVE.... cause ya know, not like I'm going to play/test right off in a PVP battle. So I put the target burst right in the middle of the rats and all the rats kept chasing after my fighters and I noticed basically nothing in increased DPS from the fighters.

I'm left with, "is this thing even working, at all?"

Anyway.. I'll equip and test the others as I get time to do so. Leaving a big "meh" so what feeling at present tho.


Blooming the sig of your target does not always help. If you are hitting a rat BS for full damage, making his sig as large as a Titan won't help.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#404 - 2017-03-16 17:03:48 UTC
Martin Vanzyl wrote:

Between then and now Bounty Payout has gone from a level of 1Tril Isk to peaking in Mid February 2017 at 2.2 TRILLION ISK, whilst the Sinks barely changed at all.

Its NOT a good idea to just INJECT that amount of money into your economy to that extent that quickly. That leads to currency devaluation and money oversupply. Google a bit to see why that's BAD.

CCP can see what ship/activity is earning these the most, I assume. So if this is what they have to do to keep EVE's economy afloat... and by extension, the game going, which puts food on their tables, keeps the lights on, by all means.


I would wager that most would agree that CCP should keep the economy in balance. This should not be done by handicapping and nerfing capital ships. There are a bazillion ways you can adjust the economy. Doing it by nerfing capital ships should not be one of them.
Dictateur Imperator
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#405 - 2017-03-16 17:08:22 UTC
Martin Vanzyl wrote:
Somebody mentioned the latest economic report as a reason for the carrier fighter nerf, and I rarely pay attention to those economic reports, but my interest was peaked. Two clicks later and I'm staring at the Isk Sink and Faucet's graph and
WTF?!Shockedhttps://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Feb_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png

Something, starting in mid April 2016 has caused Bounty Payouts to absolutely shoot into the stratosphere! https://updates.eveonline.com/date/2016-04-27/

The Citadel/Caps expansion.

Between then and now Bounty Payout has gone from a level of 1Tril Isk to peaking in Mid February 2017 at 2.2 TRILLION ISK, whilst the Sinks barely changed at all.

Its NOT a good idea to just INJECT that amount of money into your economy to that extent that quickly. That leads to currency devaluation and money oversupply. Google a bit to see why that's BAD.

CCP can see what ship/activity is earning these the most, I assume. So if this is what they have to do to keep EVE's economy afloat... and by extension, the game going, which puts food on their tables, keeps the lights on, by all means.







And you know what ? With this expension the number of player in game have drastically augmented during the same period...
Black Salt
Doomheim
#406 - 2017-03-16 17:25:39 UTC
Gadzooki wrote:



Ahh Black salt, the saltiest salt of all.

threaten legal action - check
threaten to cancel account - check
Offer up sound changes that will go unnoticed because of the tone of your first paragraph - check

Better check the salt levels in the ocean before we proceed


Perhaps I made this character for the specific reasons of being salty on forums ~

Or perhaps it's one lucky twist of fate!

And I don't make threats, simply made note of the fact that it may be a violation of existing consumer acts, and with respect to the account not being sub'd, it's not a threat if I've already cancelled it and started using my time on other games already.

And if people wish to ignore the sound suggestion to balance, then that's fine but anyone who is looking at forums for feedback should fully expect to get the following:

1) Salt
2) Trolls

and probably needs to be able to still read comments objectively.

P.S. I'd have described Black Salt as the Edgiest of Salts but
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#407 - 2017-03-16 17:50:51 UTC
Black Salt wrote:
Gadzooki wrote:



Ahh Black salt, the saltiest salt of all.

threaten legal action - check
threaten to cancel account - check
Offer up sound changes that will go unnoticed because of the tone of your first paragraph - check

Better check the salt levels in the ocean before we proceed


Perhaps I made this character for the specific reasons of being salty on forums ~

Or perhaps it's one lucky twist of fate!

And I don't make threats, simply made note of the fact that it may be a violation of existing consumer acts, and with respect to the account not being sub'd, it's not a threat if I've already cancelled it and started using my time on other games already.

And if people wish to ignore the sound suggestion to balance, then that's fine but anyone who is looking at forums for feedback should fully expect to get the following:

1) Salt
2) Trolls

and probably needs to be able to still read comments objectively.

P.S. I'd have described Black Salt as the Edgiest of Salts but


Do you really think you have any legal protection against CCP nerfing your pixel spaceship? If it was the case, every single MMO designer would be in court every single patches for having nerfed someone's pixels. Get real...
Dictateur Imperator
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#408 - 2017-03-16 19:58:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Black Salt wrote:
Gadzooki wrote:



Ahh Black salt, the saltiest salt of all.

threaten legal action - check
threaten to cancel account - check
Offer up sound changes that will go unnoticed because of the tone of your first paragraph - check

Better check the salt levels in the ocean before we proceed


Perhaps I made this character for the specific reasons of being salty on forums ~

Or perhaps it's one lucky twist of fate!

And I don't make threats, simply made note of the fact that it may be a violation of existing consumer acts, and with respect to the account not being sub'd, it's not a threat if I've already cancelled it and started using my time on other games already.

And if people wish to ignore the sound suggestion to balance, then that's fine but anyone who is looking at forums for feedback should fully expect to get the following:

1) Salt
2) Trolls

and probably needs to be able to still read comments objectively.

P.S. I'd have described Black Salt as the Edgiest of Salts but


Do you really think you have any legal protection against CCP nerfing your pixel spaceship? If it was the case, every single MMO designer would be in court every single patches for having nerfed someone's pixels. Get real...


Not for nerfing, but to change accebility you can. You need to have a great apm ... when you have signe to the game need only medium.
If you can"t use you're 2 hand to play with keyboard for any reason : It's a consumer act violation in a lot of country.
Cade Windstalker
#409 - 2017-03-16 21:16:35 UTC
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
Not for nerfing, but to change accebility you can. You need to have a great apm ... when you have signe to the game need only medium.
If you can"t use you're 2 hand to play with keyboard for any reason : It's a consumer act violation in a lot of country.



Um... this is flatly false, even I know enough law to know that.

If you're disabled you have no reasonable expectation to be able to play a game at the same level as someone with two functioning hands and the same goes for any other disability. If we were to follow your issue here to its logical conclusion then FPS games would also need to accommodate one-handed players, blind players, and all sorts of other things that it's simply ridiculous to expect them to accommodate without dumbing down the game to the point of removing all challenge from it.

I'm all for more discussion on these changes, preferably with examples, but this line of argument is just ridiculous.
Xantia Naari
Serious About Space Things..
#410 - 2017-03-16 21:50:48 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Martin Vanzyl wrote:

Between then and now Bounty Payout has gone from a level of 1Tril Isk to peaking in Mid February 2017 at 2.2 TRILLION ISK, whilst the Sinks barely changed at all.

Its NOT a good idea to just INJECT that amount of money into your economy to that extent that quickly. That leads to currency devaluation and money oversupply. Google a bit to see why that's BAD.

CCP can see what ship/activity is earning these the most, I assume. So if this is what they have to do to keep EVE's economy afloat... and by extension, the game going, which puts food on their tables, keeps the lights on, by all means.


I would wager that most would agree that CCP should keep the economy in balance. This should not be done by handicapping and nerfing capital ships. There are a bazillion ways you can adjust the economy. Doing it by nerfing capital ships should not be one of them.


Why shouldn't the biggest cause to the imbalance between isk faucet andisk sink be adjusted?

There are two kinds of children that play in sandboxes. Those who build castles and those who kick them down. It's a symbiosis.
Dictateur Imperator
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#411 - 2017-03-16 22:44:22 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
Not for nerfing, but to change accebility you can. You need to have a great apm ... when you have signe to the game need only medium.
If you can"t use you're 2 hand to play with keyboard for any reason : It's a consumer act violation in a lot of country.



Um... this is flatly false, even I know enough law to know that.

If you're disabled you have no reasonable expectation to be able to play a game at the same level as someone with two functioning hands and the same goes for any other disability. If we were to follow your issue here to its logical conclusion then FPS games would also need to accommodate one-handed players, blind players, and all sorts of other things that it's simply ridiculous to expect them to accommodate without dumbing down the game to the point of removing all challenge from it.

I'm all for more discussion on these changes, preferably with examples, but this line of argument is just ridiculous.


When you sign a contract with a companie for a service, they can change some rules of the service if they 're eula said they can. BUT if the accesibility of the service change due to this it's against consumer act.
Zenra Va'Kur
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#412 - 2017-03-17 01:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenra Va'Kur
Xantia Naari wrote:
Zenra Va'Kur wrote:




If the isk earned from multi-boxing carriers is the issue, then why aren't other drone boats being forced to be just as micro managing? It's now cheaper, less risky, and far far less work to multi-box ishtars or even a VNI for god sake. Hell just 3 VNI's will make as much as my carrier (I'm low skill).

The sad part about this is, my carrier is now a hauler, as the sites are now like rolling the dice. I lose 6 to one haven, then 1 to another, then 2 to another. I also follow the general findings everyone has done videos on to stop fighter deaths and they still get volleyed off the field and mainly by only battleships, not the cruisers or frigs that I take out early. My Ishtar loses zero. And I can actually see the health of the drones being hit, so I have a chance at calling them back when they get smacked to hard.

I'd be nice to actually have someone give me a good reason why hitting hotkeys every 2 seconds for an hour or 2 is fun. It's nothing but tedious, and detrimental to the health of my arms and hands. I have enough issues with my arms due to computer use I do not need my hobby to also add on another few hours of repetitive key pressing so that I can make some pointless space ship money. The risk of carrier ratting is so not worth it when you add the amount of damage it will do, and the risk it brings in game financially.



This must be one of the most pathetic arguments in the history of gaming entertainment. God forbid you try other games like Starcraft or CS that actually requires pushing keys many times a second. If you think pushing a key every 2 seconds is detrimental to your health, I strongly suggest you quit gaming all together and get your fat ass up and exercise it. Either that or retire to a old folks home and stick to playing bingo.

All players that quit EVE because their favorite exploit has been nerfed is good riddance.



First off trivializing a chronic problem that causes 100's of thousands world wide to go on disability, and costs millions in health care bills is far more pathetic then me offering arguments. Second off you make the assumption everyone uses hotkeys as a standard in games like starcraft and CS, or any games that offer them and a mouse option. I don't play the ones you listed but when I do play RTS games I don't use hotkeys do to my arm problems. Seems to me your ignorant of a whole range of mouse products meant to lesson the arm issue one of which I use. I also don't use a keyboard in shooting games these days do to the effects it has on my arms, I find the controller feels a lot more lenient on the tension it causes. But go ahead and project your assumptions, ignorance and insult onto others, makes you look real mature.

You also never bothered even addressing my points so I'll go ahead and assume you have no arguments to offer. When you actually have articulated an argument instead of insults come back to me, till then I'll stick to my opinion of this change is unnecessary and makes the game less fun and far more tedious.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#413 - 2017-03-17 02:20:19 UTC
Xantia Naari wrote:
Beast of Revelations wrote:

I would wager that most would agree that CCP should keep the economy in balance. This should not be done by handicapping and nerfing capital ships. There are a bazillion ways you can adjust the economy. Doing it by nerfing capital ships should not be one of them.


Why shouldn't the biggest cause to the imbalance between isk faucet andisk sink be adjusted?


Because it is stupid, dumb, and ill-conceived to view the problem of the economy as a problem of sig radius on fighters, that's why.

If carrier ratting anoms is too easy, and causes too much ISK to be made too easily, then adjust the fracking anom, adjust the fracking payouts, adjust the ability of a fracking carrier to even fit inside anoms. Adjust potentially a billion different things that would all be REASONABLE to adjust. But just make sure that you adjust the fracking ECONOMY, morons, not the hardware on a ship.

Now, if the hardware on a ship is the thing that is imbalanced, then by all means adjust it. For instance if carriers were OP against dreads, titans, and whatever else, and after investigation the problem was found to be the sig radius of the fighters, not carrier hit points, not the carrier being too cheap, not number of high slots or mid slots or low slots on the carrier, etc. So fine, adjust away. But to adjust sig radius on carrier fighters because of an economic imbalance? Height of moronic.
ScorpionD III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#414 - 2017-03-17 03:04:14 UTC
Man, i don't have anything to post here, who has not ben told...

This is just ******* ridiculous...

An anomaly (Heaven) give something like 30m, and i lost easy, easy at least 3 or 4 fighter at the cost of 15m each...

Is just me or have something wrong?

I expected not only a roll back from this change, but the compensation for the lost fighters.

While that i will put some vni's and grab my popcorn to see some movies while i recover from my losses... sigh
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#415 - 2017-03-17 04:10:47 UTC
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
Not for nerfing, but to change accebility you can. You need to have a great apm ... when you have signe to the game need only medium.
If you can"t use you're 2 hand to play with keyboard for any reason : It's a consumer act violation in a lot of country.



Um... this is flatly false, even I know enough law to know that.

If you're disabled you have no reasonable expectation to be able to play a game at the same level as someone with two functioning hands and the same goes for any other disability. If we were to follow your issue here to its logical conclusion then FPS games would also need to accommodate one-handed players, blind players, and all sorts of other things that it's simply ridiculous to expect them to accommodate without dumbing down the game to the point of removing all challenge from it.

I'm all for more discussion on these changes, preferably with examples, but this line of argument is just ridiculous.


When you sign a contract with a companie for a service, they can change some rules of the service if they 're eula said they can. BUT if the accesibility of the service change due to this it's against consumer act.


CCP never said you are supposed to be able to efficiently fly a carrier/super while having hands issue for example.
GothicNightmare
Bondage Goat Zombie
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#416 - 2017-03-17 06:39:41 UTC
The Citadel/Caps expansion.

Between then and now Bounty Payout has gone from a level of 1Tril Isk to peaking in Mid February 2017 at 2.2 TRILLION ISK, whilst the Sinks barely changed at all.

Its NOT a good idea to just INJECT that amount of money into your economy to that extent that quickly. That leads to currency devaluation and money oversupply. Google a bit to see why that's BAD.

CCP can see what ship/activity is earning these the most, I assume. So if this is what they have to do to keep EVE's economy afloat... and by extension, the game going, which puts food on their tables, keeps the lights on, by all means.




[/quote]

yes it's true the isk gaining ability went way up, I noticed it too with super ratting, the bomber squadrons made the isk intake just go places. The problem is people are grinding isk and grinding isk, and then insisting on spending it on t1 cruisers or t1 destroyers/frigs or t3 destroyers...
No one is spending isk on battleships and fitting them like the flying gods they should be or T2 battlecruisers or anything. People see battleships or battlecruisers now and they just grab a handful of frigates and kite and tickle them to death and then gripe that they are bored. I remember the days that you'd see intel flash about a 20-30 man HAC gang with 4-5 logi and people got twitchy, now it's all "30 interceptors" kek... who cares, let them zip on through and go away. The interest in committed heavy pvp sank when cheap throw away ships were just as good and a mere fraction of the cost, no one is spending on anything.
So yes, they can see the isk influx, but they aren't looking into why it's not going back out. It seems the overall mentality is if it's not black ops/covert somethingorother or cheap frig/dessy/cruiser, then it's just not worth the isk or time.
Fine example? When bouncers were nerfed into the ground, the Ishtar blobs vanished to the 4 winds, and even now it's all caracal blobs with rapid light (sometimes heavy) missiles... or some rando with a cyno, it's all become cheap and predictable.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#417 - 2017-03-17 07:03:21 UTC
GothicNightmare wrote:

yes it's true the isk gaining ability went way up, I noticed it too with super ratting, the bomber squadrons made the isk intake just go places. The problem is people are grinding isk and grinding isk, and then insisting on spending it on t1 cruisers or t1 destroyers/frigs or t3 destroyers...
No one is spending isk on battleships and fitting them like the flying gods they should be or T2 battlecruisers or anything. People see battleships or battlecruisers now and they just grab a handful of frigates and kite and tickle them to death and then gripe that they are bored. I remember the days that you'd see intel flash about a 20-30 man HAC gang with 4-5 logi and people got twitchy, now it's all "30 interceptors" kek... who cares, let them zip on through and go away. The interest in committed heavy pvp sank when cheap throw away ships were just as good and a mere fraction of the cost, no one is spending on anything.
So yes, they can see the isk influx, but they aren't looking into why it's not going back out. It seems the overall mentality is if it's not black ops/covert somethingorother or cheap frig/dessy/cruiser, then it's just not worth the isk or time.
Fine example? When bouncers were nerfed into the ground, the Ishtar blobs vanished to the 4 winds, and even now it's all caracal blobs with rapid light (sometimes heavy) missiles... or some rando with a cyno, it's all become cheap and predictable.


The predictable and predicted outcome of the mentality of the vermin who love to scream "bigger is not better!" and who think a cheap frigate should be able to kill a battleship on equal grounds and footing, or even a capital.
Joe Uta
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#418 - 2017-03-17 07:57:15 UTC
Have second window nidhoggur.
Trying to handle Angel Heaven.
1st attempt: gate heaven, -2 fighters during final wave.
2st attempt: simple heaven, -3 fighters..
3st attempt: gate heaven, -1 fighter during final wave.

Seen the video about orbitting structure or wreck between waves. Doesn`t work. When fighter kill his target hi is became static, not move. And npc shot him very well during his final weapon cycle(while hi is stand). That makes carrier ratting no more avaible for me...

RIP Nidhoggur.

P.S. sry for bad grammar.
MegaLuter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#419 - 2017-03-17 08:31:36 UTC
CCP add to the section of fighters Shortcuts - return and orbit all/select fighter
Xantia Naari
Serious About Space Things..
#420 - 2017-03-17 11:08:12 UTC
Joe Uta wrote:
Have second window nidhoggur.
Trying to handle Angel Heaven.
1st attempt: gate heaven, -2 fighters during final wave.
2st attempt: simple heaven, -3 fighters..
3st attempt: gate heaven, -1 fighter during final wave.

Seen the video about orbitting structure or wreck between waves. Doesn`t work. When fighter kill his target hi is became static, not move. And npc shot him very well during his final weapon cycle(while hi is stand). That makes carrier ratting no more avaible for me...

RIP Nidhoggur.

P.S. sry for bad grammar.



Try fitting 2x capital drone durability rig tech II

There are two kinds of children that play in sandboxes. Those who build castles and those who kick them down. It's a symbiosis.