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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#341 - 2017-02-24 14:27:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.

I hope that this includes ice.

Well, I actually hope you abandon this broken, kluged-together mechanic in favor of something more reasonable like simply disallowing any tacklt/EWar on Rorqs, but given the likelihood of that happening I'd settle for your broken mechanic at least being complete.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Ares Splinter
Faceless.
Dracarys.
#342 - 2017-02-24 14:37:40 UTC
CCP **** us over er have ships way to exspensiv in space an they wonna **** you over so they can ern even more from 14 to 18bil kills


WTF CCP

Eter set the cost of the Drone down to somesing we can understand lige max 1 bil an not 10 bil for drones
an the Indutri core down to 2½ min circle

then is ok if you set the other down so we have a chance to get away alittle faster otherwise dont **** us i know people going away from the game if CCP do this

We spend to many real money to pay for a Ship an your Guys Play Rolette whit our money some pay real money

make ir fair seem Like CCP talk aboudt Big risk Big Reward

No they ment Big Risk our Reward...

they new Way to scam the gamer ????
Broken words when they say big Risk an no reward..
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#343 - 2017-02-24 14:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
deleted
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#344 - 2017-02-24 14:39:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
Pesadel0 wrote:
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
I am pretty certain, the mining yield of the rorqual is not the problem here.
And you will need some more nerfs if you want to balance it by that ^^

The problem isnt that a 10bil ship nets you 200mil an hour.
Supercarriers can do something similar already.

Incursions also can give you similar income.

The problem is, that compared to the other high-end isk/hour incomes in eve, rorqual mining can be done semi afk and multiboxed. Nullsec roids are big enough so they dont need to switch asteroids a lot. And aside from that, nothing prevents anyone from using 20 rorqs at the same time., in secured nullsec space with defense fleet ready.
That and ppl can do rorqual mining while they do other stuff, like pvping, pveing etc

I am 99% sure the afk and multiboxable nature of rorqual mining is the problem here.

A working fix would be, having to unload the mining drones each time they come back or something similar.
That would be the much smarter way to do it, in my opinion.
Or maybe only allow a single sieged rorqual on grid.

Currently rorqual mining has the following 3 characteristics:
1. multiboxable
2. safe in huge pvp-alliances
3. income greater than any other activity, that has 1. and 2. fullfilled

One of these 3 needs to change. safety will be hard to touch. Income would have to be nerfed into the ground for all regular users aswell. So 1. is the way to go! nerf multiboxing rorquals.



So you want to nerf rourqual multiboxavle? You know what miners will do?

1- Sell the rourquals
2-Buy a super
3-Rat in the umbrella of the multilateral protection of a big alliance

Everything in PVE eve is done semi-afaik you know why? Because it sucks , just look the last time CCP did a pass on PVE in EVE was when?If you dont have a healthy population of PVers you wont have as much PVP content and that is a fact.I dont see this change doing anything good to the game and i think there is bigger problems eve need's to tackle first and foremost like Null sov ,moonmining,citadels,PVE in general .

And buy the way everyone said when the new bonus of the rourqual were proposed that the panic module would create battle rourquals just go and check the discussions from that time , everyone liked to see rourquals in belts you know mining not hugging a pos field and taking the bonus to mining and dont giving nothing back will just put rourquals again mining at the belt with hulks , who in there rigth mids (besides goons) will put more than 1 rourqual at a belt?


Super ratting is not multiboxable....

You have to target and attack a new rat every 2 seconds....

Please learn about the game mechanics before posting....
Mariko Musashi Hareka
Kaishin.
#345 - 2017-02-24 14:41:52 UTC
apollo429 wrote:
We are investigating the option of increasing the visual size of nullsec ore asteroids to help improve the feel of the ore anom environments (they've been a bit sad looking since the veld got removed) but we are not sure about some technical details of that potential change atm so no promises.

DONT EVEN BOTHER WASTING YOUR TIME. This new Nerf to rorqual mining is being seen for what it really is. Rorquals are to op a mining ship in your eyes. It takes the place of 5 hulk toons. So now you Nerf it even more so people have to go back to mining in hulks again. This then boosts the amount of people subbed to the game thus increasing plex sales and increasing the number of people paying for eve.

You guys need to rethink the Nerf to yeld amount. You decrease the cycle time by 30% yet Nerf the yields by 50%... This is on top of the last 40-50% held next a month or 2 ago. You attempted to help with the cost of mining drone but in the end you messed that up as well but failed. So unless you are planning on releasing mining dreadnaught of sorts this is a bullshit nerf. And I say this as the mineral market falls. So if this is going to be the case then lower the requirements of the excavator drone.

I can't believe the CSM thought this was a good idea.



Hell they were probably the ones who suggested it
Mariko Musashi Hareka
Kaishin.
#346 - 2017-02-24 14:43:42 UTC
Katsuya Kobayashi wrote:
I'm looking forward to your next post, Fozzie. If it's your resignation, at least. You're absolutely awful at your job.

This game is about risk and reward.

First of all, the ship already gets destroyed every single day.
*snip* No Kill boards. *snip* ISD Max Trix

And that does not include the drones, that people are already hunting - even without the incentive of kill mails. The introduction of kill mails for them is a good additional incentive. A very small gang of extremely cheap ships can already pose a serious threat to rorqual pilots' assets when they siege themselves in an asteroid field.

You should have made electronic warfare unsuable while the PANIC module is active, and you should have made the PANIC module weaker to increase the risk and leave the reward be. The game is supposed to reward players to put assets on the field. That's literally what the design behind a rorqual should be. You siege 10b+ of assets into an asteroid cluster, 70% of that value flying slowly around it, easily exposed to small gangs that come by. And a larger scale attack from through a wormhole or cyno, you'll need a capital fleet on standby to have any chance at all to live through it. It takes coordination between players to protect them, and it takes coordination between players to attack them. And it takes one guy to ruin them, you.




For the betterment of the game, I sincerely hope you resign. I have no trust in you as a game designer at CCP. Thank you in advance.


I totally agree all my friends and myself pretty much have the same sentiment towards Fozzie he pretty much messes up everything he touches starting when changed sov mechanics it has just been a downward spiral since then
Kahrnar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2017-02-24 14:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahrnar
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello again folks. Got another set of changes today for your feedback.

These changes revolve around the Rorqual and mining in general. We've been keeping a close eye on the mineral economy since Ascension and we feel that we need to make another fairly significant intervention in order to help keep this area of the EVE economy healthy.

At the same time we're preparing some other changes related to mining that have more to do with QoL and module balance.

Here's the package of somewhat related changes we have in mind at the moment:

Excavator Drones:
We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy. I know it never feels good when things get nerfed but we're very confident that the Rorqual will continue to be an extremely powerful mining ship after these changes (not to mention the value provided by its other functions such as foreman links and defenses). We plan on continuing to make changes in this area as necessary over the coming months with the goal of keeping the mineral market healthy and ensuring that a wide variety of mining ships are viable.
  • Speed up the cycle time of 'Excavator' ore mining drones to 60 seconds, and reduce the yield per cycle to 110 m3 base. This will reduce the idealized yield per minute, increase the number of trips required to and from the asteroid, but also reduce the amount of wasted cycle at the end of an asteroid's life.
  • Add killmails on the destruction of all 'Excavator' drones.
  • In March we are also planning on some UI/UX improvements for drones as a whole and mining drones in particular. These include a new keyboard shortcut for launching drones and enabling the "engage target" keyboard shortcut to work with mining drones. Discussion of these UI changes is best directed to this thread.

PANIC Module:
We have been keeping a close eye on potential issues related to the PANIC module for a while, and although we are overall quite happy with the module we are interested in reducing the power of a few uses, primarily use for fleet tackle and cyno lighting, as well as an escape method for entosis operations.
To reduce the power of the PANIC module in these situations while also preserving all of its power for defending mining Rorquals and their fleets we are currently planning the following change:
  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.

Other misc mining changes:
  • Buffing the Mining Laser Field Enhancement foreman link from 30% to 40% base bonus.
  • Increasing the optimal range of the ORE strip miners (to 18.75km) and ORE ice harvesters (to 12.5km).
  • Spreading out the asteroids in the Asteroid Cluster ore anoms a bit to help the balance between shorter range drone mining and longer range exhumer mining.
  • We are investigating the option of increasing the visual size of nullsec ore asteroids to help improve the feel of the ore anom environments (they've been a bit sad looking since the veld got removed) but we are not sure about some technical details of that potential change atm so no promises.

These changes will be appearing on SISI for public testing over the next few days and we're very interested in hearing your feedback. Thanks!


This will no longer be viable to field a rorq. Thank you for killing the rorqual mining option. If you are going to do this, then maybe you should consider a skill that reduces the Industrial Core timer...Losing a 12-13 Bil ship to mine a fraction of what it was before...useless again. Yet another nerf to the indy side of the game while ALL of the changes enhance the PVP end. CCP remember without indy, PVP doesn't happen.
Mariko Musashi Hareka
Kaishin.
#348 - 2017-02-24 14:48:46 UTC
oresome eyes wrote:
Capri Sun KraftFoods wrote:
Malkshurr wrote:
At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks
It was then nerf by 32%
and now is the nerf by another 25%?

So one rorqual is 2 hulks now
2 hulks - 600 - 700 million
1 rorqual - 12 B

And you do not see the problem ?


same tbh

like

I can buy a thrasher and it to 250 dps for 10m

But I buy Proteus for 600m and it only do 550 dps????????

cpp plz fix



IF CCP makes this changes i would suggest everyone to file a petition to get your isk back since ccp did commit fraud when they published that rorquals WERE TO BE X5 times hulks. Everyone one of us that bought one on the through that the publish information would not changed is a bate and switch. Just because ccp cannot control the flow of minerals to the market, dose not mean you CCP should. THIS IS a player run market and YOU ccp keep your hands out of it. The next question i would have for the dev fossel it would seem like you have a vested interest in mineral prices is that why you are making the changes? Is this another t20 thing?

I also forgot can i have have a refund as well on my skill training time that you just wasted.


^^This
Mariko Musashi Hareka
Kaishin.
#349 - 2017-02-24 15:00:25 UTC
TheRighteousOne wrote:
Two things:

  1. Make the drones a LOT cheaper to warrant these nerfs because the risk/reward ratio is getting out of control
  2. Just take away all offensive ecm stuff from the rorq and be done with it. No more complaing about battle rorqs and ppl can still panic as intended

The suggested solution with the locked asteroid is the worst thing i have seen since i started playing this game What?


^^^^^THIS
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#350 - 2017-02-24 15:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Pesadel0
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
Pesadel0 wrote:
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
I am pretty certain, the mining yield of the rorqual is not the problem here.
And you will need some more nerfs if you want to balance it by that ^^

The problem isnt that a 10bil ship nets you 200mil an hour.
Supercarriers can do something similar already.

Incursions also can give you similar income.

The problem is, that compared to the other high-end isk/hour incomes in eve, rorqual mining can be done semi afk and multiboxed. Nullsec roids are big enough so they dont need to switch asteroids a lot. And aside from that, nothing prevents anyone from using 20 rorqs at the same time., in secured nullsec space with defense fleet ready.
That and ppl can do rorqual mining while they do other stuff, like pvping, pveing etc

I am 99% sure the afk and multiboxable nature of rorqual mining is the problem here.

A working fix would be, having to unload the mining drones each time they come back or something similar.
That would be the much smarter way to do it, in my opinion.
Or maybe only allow a single sieged rorqual on grid.

Currently rorqual mining has the following 3 characteristics:
1. multiboxable
2. safe in huge pvp-alliances
3. income greater than any other activity, that has 1. and 2. fullfilled

One of these 3 needs to change. safety will be hard to touch. Income would have to be nerfed into the ground for all regular users aswell. So 1. is the way to go! nerf multiboxing rorquals.



So you want to nerf rourqual multiboxavle? You know what miners will do?

1- Sell the rourquals
2-Buy a super
3-Rat in the umbrella of the multilateral protection of a big alliance

Everything in PVE eve is done semi-afaik you know why? Because it sucks , just look the last time CCP did a pass on PVE in EVE was when?If you dont have a healthy population of PVers you wont have as much PVP content and that is a fact.I dont see this change doing anything good to the game and i think there is bigger problems eve need's to tackle first and foremost like Null sov ,moonmining,citadels,PVE in general .

And buy the way everyone said when the new bonus of the rourqual were proposed that the panic module would create battle rourquals just go and check the discussions from that time , everyone liked to see rourquals in belts you know mining not hugging a pos field and taking the bonus to mining and dont giving nothing back will just put rourquals again mining at the belt with hulks , who in there rigth mids (besides goons) will put more than 1 rourqual at a belt?


Super ratting is not multiboxable....

You have to target and attack a new rat every 2 seconds....

Please learn about the game mechanics before posting....


well i explained what will happen if the rourquals rating of profit is tipped to the wrong side, but i agree it was a bad example of multi boxing , but it wont disappear they will just shift to barges fleets again and guess what they are hard has frak to kill.
Sgt Warlock
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#351 - 2017-02-24 15:22:21 UTC
they should increase the mining drone yield so it mines similar to 2 or 3 hulks when not in siege, and then remove the industrial core.... that is a solution I would not mind
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2017-02-24 15:25:24 UTC
Sgt Warlock wrote:
they should increase the mining drone yield so it mines similar to 2 or 3 hulks when not in siege, and then remove the industrial core.... that is a solution I would not mind


How is that even balanced?
ISD Chanisa Nemes
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#353 - 2017-02-24 15:33:34 UTC
Removed some off-topic posting.

[img]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/dance-party/willsmith.gif[/img]

ISD Chanisa Nemes

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Cade Windstalker
#354 - 2017-02-24 15:47:09 UTC
Grognard Commissar wrote:
I'm getting the feeling that you're a station trader, with zero experience in nullsec inductry, or general sovnull operations.

we don't care about the jita price, the only minerals we export here, is morphite, because we get wayyy more than we can use. the rest of everythign we mine goes straight via contract to the builders that make caps. a bit gets used for other stuff, because, in nullsec, it's usually easier to just build everything.

also, look at your numbers, trit is falling, but mex is actually going up. that's because of the mineral imbalance


And you would be wrong, both about what I do in Eve and about the effect of Rorqual mining on Mineral prices. The Jita buy price is dropping, the price in places closer to or in Sov Null has basically fallen off a cliff. While people don't generally export minerals from Null it's not a universal rule, and the volume being mined out there is so great at this point that it's impacting prices elsewhere, both because of the lack of imports from HS creating demand there and because the compressed ore that people are hauling in is still enough to have a significant impact.

Also, if you'll note, Mexallon only went up for a month or so and is now falling, along with all the other minerals that were generally bottlenecks on production. Mex was just the last one because its rock was generally low value so people were hesitant to mine it specifically. Now that they've started the price is dropping along with all the other minerals, because what's causing this overall issue is a massive imbalance in minerals produced vs minerals consumed and destroyed, not an imbalance between various mineral types.

Millerz Magnum wrote:
Every FIN time CCP, every time you nerf hammer. How did you not expect them to be used as tackle when you didn't disable their ability to engage hostile actions while in PANIC is beyond me. This either means you are simple minded or you don't do nearly enough testing, and probably should Sell CCP like your looking to do.

However angry I may be, I can reasonable agree that they should not be able to engage hostiles in any manner (but should be able to rr friendlies.). This can be solved two ways, one is disallowing aggressive action with the panic module. Another is to hit the nail on the head, and make the rorq the first ship in eve that cannot fit any type of point entirely. Both ways eliminate the combat problem.

....

So take away their combat abilities, but do not nerf where panic can be activated.

Also disagree with more min nerfs. F off with the nerfs, but FIX your stupidly planned out module.


It's not that CCP didn't see this use coming, it's that it's turned out to be more disruptive and more of a problem than anticipated, so it's getting nerfed.

Restricting the Rorqual from fitting a point wouldn't solve the problem, then you just spit out a mining ship with a point, have it point the target, and then PANIC the rorqual which extends to the mining ship.

They're restricting when you can PANIC because that *is* the problem here. It's not just points, or just Entosis, or just using the Rorqual as invincible Cap Logi, it's all of these things and probably some more things that CCP hasn't thought of yet. They can either play whack-a-mole for the next six months and give the Rorqual a list of restrictions as long as my arm, or they can restrict the PANIC module once and actually solve the problem.

TigerXtrm wrote:
Please don't. This would make the PANIC module essentially useless. Figure out some other way, this is just a duct tape style solution that limits ways to use the PANIC. With this change you're essentially forcing Rorqual pilots to activate it as soon as hostiles land on grid, and that is rarely ever preferable.

If you need to tie it to mining so badly, only allow activation if the Rorqual is within 100KM of an asteroid.

The PANIC module is what allows Rorquals to be in belts in the first place. If any douche muffin frigate with ECM can prevent you from using it, the entire purpose of that module is gone. Period.


The Siege makes you immune to ECM, so it won't make it anything like useless.
Rusty Boon
Triglavian Menace
#355 - 2017-02-24 15:59:36 UTC
So I slept on it over night. I have come to the conclusion after reading everything that came after my initial post that....


ITS STILL A REALLY BAD ******* IDEA.

There is not one argument for these changes... there is not any kind of reasonable explanation way this is really being done.

This game has always been a market simulator at heart. A living breathing creature that both gives and takes. Manipulating the Market takes you CCP out of the realm of the observer of the game into INTERFEREING with it.

The mineral prices are fine. Almost all the Ore mined in null is being used in null and never touching the major trade hubs. Null is as it always is Independent of the rest of the game. In fact. I have noticed myself on a daily basis that a lot of the ores that I mine and compress end up being completely sold out on the market at times. Thus making it worth more.

You cannot make promises (Original Rorq buff) then give it a reasonable nerf to keep it in line with where it should be at. (32% nerf) and then completely bend us all over the table.

I personally manual trained into the Rorq even after the original nerf came towards it. I remapped myself as well to help speed things along. I have a lot of friends in game that that Brought YOU CCP extra money because of these changes. PLEX, Skill injectors, and Skill extractors. All purchased many times over putting Cold hard cash into your wallet. On top of this there is now a Huge demand for PLEX (more money for you) because Rorq miners all PLEX their accounts. I'm fairly certain that Selling PLEX makes you as a company more money than having monthly Subs.

Subs

1 Month

$14.95/mo

$14.95 total


PLEX

1 PLEX

$19.95

So from this info taken off your site. You are saying that CCP is no longer in the business of making money. Just in the business of Pissing off everyone who is Willfully Throwing Money At them.
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#356 - 2017-02-24 16:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Panther X
Yes, the Core makes you immune to ECM, but with the change in anomalies, rocks becoming farther apart, Rorqs are going to have to move more frequently to stay in optimal range for the travel time of the drones. That's the biggest weakness of the system as is; the drones are horrendously expensive, and to try to protect them, you should be within 10 km of the rock you are stripping.
It takes a bit of maneuvering to keep you in that 10 km bubble, so you wind up being on the move more often than one would think. You aren't in siege when you are moving. Sure you can just hit siege when a neut shows up in system, but that isn't the point.

The point is the heavy handed multi-point nerf bomb being dropped on the player base AGAIN, like bombs over *insert besieged city name here*

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Sgt Warlock
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#357 - 2017-02-24 16:10:24 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
Sgt Warlock wrote:
they should increase the mining drone yield so it mines similar to 2 or 3 hulks when not in siege, and then remove the industrial core.... that is a solution I would not mind


How is that even balanced?


the rorqual mines a lot less, but it can move... So it is not a juice plum beeing picked, but a actual ore mining vessel.
Not beeing able to move, not beeing able to defend yourself, not beeing able to jump makes it a bad investment.

15 bill for my drones equals 75 hours of non stop mining
10 bill for a fit and ship equals another 50 hours.
is 125 hours roi

3 bill for a archon and a fit equals 20 hours to return on investment

There is imbalance in that . removing the extra 25 % means you need 165 hours more or less of nonstop mining.
If you work, have a wife and kids that equals over a year of mining before you make your money back.

that is 165 hours of sitting duck. If you have goons with 1000 rorqs, that doesnt matter.
But as a smaller alliance with like 3-4 rorqs who need to dock and unsiege everytime someone pops in, that is not worth the effort
if you can buy a hulk and fit it for 400m and can move and be safe when something happens.

One rorqual loss would set you back a year worth of mining if you are not mining 23/7.
One hulk loss would make itself back in 10 hours...
Cade Windstalker
#358 - 2017-02-24 16:17:40 UTC
Rusty Boon wrote:
There is not one argument for these changes... there is not any kind of reasonable explanation way this is really being done.

This game has always been a market simulator at heart. A living breathing creature that both gives and takes. Manipulating the Market takes you CCP out of the realm of the observer of the game into INTERFEREING with it.


So, what you're saying here is... CCP should never have buffed the Rorqual in the first place because that interfered with the market?

Seriously, if this is how you think the game works you haven't been paying much attention for the last... 14 years or so. Give or take.

CCP work to make sure the game is healthy, including the markets. That means roughly balancing mineral sinks and faucets or ISK sinks and faucets and leaving the details up to the players. The Rorqual is getting nerfed because it's too big of a mineral faucet.

Panther X wrote:
Yes, the Core makes you immune to ECM, but with the change in anomalies, rocks becoming farther apart, Rorqs are going to have to move more frequently to stay in optimal range for the travel time of the drones. That's the biggest weakness of the system as is; the drones are horrendously expensive, and to try to protect them, you should be within 10 km of the rock you are stripping.
It takes a bit of maneuvering to keep you in that 10 km bubble, so you wind up being on the move more often than one would think. You aren't in siege when you are moving. Sure you can just hit siege when a neut shows up in system, but that isn't the point.

The point is the heavy handed multi-point nerf bomb being dropped on the player base AGAIN, like bombs over *insert besieged city name here*


That just means you're jammed for 20 seconds, at the most, before the jam clears after you siege up. If you can't survive for 20 seconds then I'm pretty sure you weren't going to survive that attack anyways.

As for the increased movement, that's part of the point here, to make using the Rorqual a bit more of a trade off, as opposed to right now where there's no reason to even bring a Hulk into a belt if you can fly a Rorqual, and there's basically no reason to use the Rorqual for boosting.

Maybe with these changes some people will decide the drones aren't actually worth it and will just use the Rorqual for boosting and support for a fleet of Hulks. Since the Rorqual with Platinum insurance pays out about 2.2b you can run a pure boosting one fairly cheaply, especially if you keep your Hulks ready to warp out so you only lose the Rorqual when you get dropped.
White Bull
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#359 - 2017-02-24 16:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: White Bull
Icant speak english well . So i hope everyone understand what i try to say .

1. Rorq is a final ship on mining area . So thats means rorqual like a titan .. so that ship must be a very stronger and very skill needed ship on mining area. Thats normal .. So If u say" rorq is a too much stronger.. " thats not a understanable .. If rorqual is a final ship on that section obsultly must be storonger that other mining ship.

2- On pve area ( Ratting ) : Cruisers < Battle cruisers < battle ships < carriers< super carriers< titans
Hourly gaining isk : 35 m < 50 m < 70 m < 120 m < 250 m < 500 m
Ship costs : 70 m < 200 m < 400 m < 2 b < 25 b < 80 b

Ship cost / gaining hourly isk : 2 hours < 4 h < 6 h < 15 h < 100 h < 160 h

So all of u have enought Brain for calculated mining ships hourly gaining and ship costs ..


3- My Opinion : Iif rorqual is a final ship on mining section , that ship must be like titan ot super carriers .. So CCP must be configure skill needed re configured for rorqual .. Not nerf .. give more skill point on that ship needed .. If u want use rorqual u must spend more time to gaining this title : Rorqual Pilot like titan pilot .. .. final ship on mining section. Why ? This is FINAL Ship on mining area.. no one use this ship easly ..
Cade Windstalker
#360 - 2017-02-24 16:20:53 UTC
Sgt Warlock wrote:
Pesadel0 wrote:
Sgt Warlock wrote:
they should increase the mining drone yield so it mines similar to 2 or 3 hulks when not in siege, and then remove the industrial core.... that is a solution I would not mind


How is that even balanced?


the rorqual mines a lot less, but it can move... So it is not a juice plum beeing picked, but a actual ore mining vessel.
Not beeing able to move, not beeing able to defend yourself, not beeing able to jump makes it a bad investment.

15 bill for my drones equals 75 hours of non stop mining
10 bill for a fit and ship equals another 50 hours.
is 125 hours roi

3 bill for a archon and a fit equals 20 hours to return on investment

There is imbalance in that . removing the extra 25 % means you need 165 hours more or less of nonstop mining.
If you work, have a wife and kids that equals over a year of mining before you make your money back.

that is 165 hours of sitting duck. If you have goons with 1000 rorqs, that doesnt matter.
But as a smaller alliance with like 3-4 rorqs who need to dock and unsiege everytime someone pops in, that is not worth the effort
if you can buy a hulk and fit it for 400m and can move and be safe when something happens.

One rorqual loss would set you back a year worth of mining if you are not mining 23/7.
One hulk loss would make itself back in 10 hours...


The Rorqual isn't supposed to be the end-all and be-all of mining. The whole point of the core is that you trade a major risk for a major benefit. The PANIC mode exists to alleviate that, not remove it entirely.

If you're not finding the drones worthwhile then you could just use the Rorqual as a boosting ship for a fleet of Hulks, get that return on investment waaaay faster, and if you lose the Rorqual with insurance then the net loss is something like 1.3b or less on a cheap fit. Less if you build your own Rorquals with minerals rather than buy them off the market.