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[March] Balance Tweaks: Fighters, Supercarriers & Burst Projectors

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Sieve Boy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2017-02-24 04:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sieve Boy
Carriers are already a pathetic joke in wormhole space already, they get used to roll holes and that is it. The sleepers tear the fighters apart just fine and any pvp carrier gets defanged because it's hilariously easy.

Not sure what game you're playing or stats you are watching Larrikan, cause I make fighters in hi sec and they sell pretty quickly, people lose them so much. Except for support fighters. It's sirens or forget it.

Instead of making something already in a bad place worse, how about you address the problem of DSTs full of booster 3200 parked next to cap injector faxes in WH space? Something that requires a stupid number of Bhaalghorns to neut out.
Captain Longstreet
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2017-02-24 05:08:14 UTC
When do NPC's not shoot fighters? Making rats shoot them more really wont matter since it's already pretty much %100 of the time. But making the sig bigger? Ratting in a carrier is already really active. Forget to send fighter to orbit the next NPC just before the one you are shooting dies and BLAP just lost a fighter. They are always taking damage. I don't lose one if I'm on the ball but look away for a second at the wrong time and BLAP just lost a fighter. Most nights before I log I like to jump in an archon and run havens for an hour. I generally make about 100mill in that hour since I don't fit for max tic. I'm at my keyboard and playing the game for that hour. If I lose a few fighters a night I might as well just fit up a VNI and go watch a movie for 40 min come back warp to the next one and repeat.

In PVP it's already pretty easy to defang carriers/supers. One griffin can kill a carriers DPS. Webs = dead fighters. Target painter = dead fighters. Space superiority fighters absolutely murder fighters. Fighters are pretty big and the fighter bay really doesn't hold that many making the sig higher is only going to make them die faster. Having to ship in new fighters is a pain. Only way to really do it is a jump freighter.
Proeliator Bahis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2017-02-24 05:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Proeliator Bahis
Lets Make Carriers Great Again.

Oh wait...
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#84 - 2017-02-24 08:15:58 UTC
still op imo

too much damage application, too fast

and those long range ones you get on supers are just ridiculous
Lost Perineum
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#85 - 2017-02-24 09:31:56 UTC
Do you even play your own game?

Fighters eat **** if anything even looks at them. They don't have the hitpoints or tank to support such a buff to signature radius.

Did Larrikin die to a fighter in PVP, so it must be nerfed? This isn't a mere tweak.
Bud Herojuana
URSA PRIMUS
URSA.
#86 - 2017-02-24 09:45:14 UTC
Are you guys serious about the fighters or is this an early Aprils fools?

You're saying that rats don't agro fighters? What?! :D

How much more you want to increase the PvP counter play? Single T1 ECM frigate can already counter a carrier..
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#87 - 2017-02-24 09:52:25 UTC
So to try and add some more constructive comments here rather than just comments along the lines of "are you kidding me?!"

What are you aiming to achieve here Larrikin? Do you want fighters to die quicker, or just be easier to apply damage to? Assuming the latter (because the former just seems mental - as you can see from the majority of comments here) can you give the fighters a EHP buff with their additional sig?
Koenig Yazria
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#88 - 2017-02-24 10:20:01 UTC
I have rarely seen such unanimity with negative feedback. Kinda should make you think.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#89 - 2017-02-24 10:34:32 UTC
As long as i read the "March" news - i can say;
CCP really want to screw many pilots :)
But this time they split they screwing hammer to everyone around;

Rorq pilots;
HIC;
Miners;
Now carrier(super carrier) pilots;

Come on! stop making this threads one - two per day,
just tell us in a list what u gonna touch so it's gonna be unplayble - so we can decide sooner if we gonna stay and watch how u ruin this game or stay and still having fun around;
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2017-02-24 10:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Pesadel0
So basically you nerf the figthers in sig and in agroo but dont give even a bit of HP or something? I mean damm if this release is the Tomb nerf bat it is a really **** one .

P.S: We have been asking and waiting for the shield slaves for how many years now? Please do us a favor and dont post something you cant release.
Hurri Nakrar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2017-02-24 11:14:58 UTC
If you guys nerf the Carriers on such way, incursions should be nerfed aswell. You take away PVE Content in 0 sec with this because Carriers almost cant be used efficent anymore for any site. And for fleet fights why should any big Alliance now use supers? You can blop their Drones like a Piata now.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#92 - 2017-02-24 11:58:55 UTC
CCP really want us all to pay in $/euros/pounds for their game :)
It looks like they are trying to do EVERYTHING to lower your ISK income per month or force u to lose more ISK per month (well it's still making you less ISK per month =) )
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#93 - 2017-02-24 12:18:07 UTC
CCP.
Has any thought been given as to how this affects Citadels & other structures.
Especially in high sec the fighters are the main source of applicable damage to most targets, and these changes to fighters will make the already weak citadel fighters (since they get no benefit from any of the skills that normally help) even weaker.
Are Citadels in high sec also viewed as too strong a defence currently?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#94 - 2017-02-24 12:22:25 UTC
Terrible changes. You have Carriers out in space doing things that require active input and attention, so you decide to nerf that activity. This month it's like you had a focus group with the agenda "How can we make the smallest number of people happy while pissing off the most possible people?" I guess you will be announcing gold ammo from the Aurum store next. The mobile warp disruptor changes were good, everything else needs to go back to the drawing board.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Aleverette
Bag ol' Dciks
#95 - 2017-02-24 12:56:57 UTC
RIP T2 fighters

Throw half of a PLEX onto anything's face with that signature radius?
Hell no
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#96 - 2017-02-24 13:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I'm not a Carrier Ratter, I can do it but I don't like it, I prefer to use sub caps in null. My Mach can do anomalies and then do DED escalations without having to refit (and a carrier can't fit through a DED's gate lol). So this nerf to Carrier ratting is good for me personally.

But I disagree with it as long as there is no change to AFK Drone ratting first (ie ratting with anything that can field heavy drones, from the VNI and Ishtar to the Eos and Myrm and others). At least the Carrier jocks are at their computers making isk, the afk ratter many times isn't, and it's easy because of how things work. I know, I run a couple VNI toons doing lesser anoms while also ratting wth my Mach in better anomalies, I only have to tab over to the VNIs twice an hour to keep the gravy train running.

Not like I want you all (CCP) to nerf me, I'm not a sadist lol. But honesty demands I say this. You shouldn't be nerfing active PVE isk making while leaving AFK ratting intact, this is completely backwards to what you should be doing.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#97 - 2017-02-24 13:35:43 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi m8s,

In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback.

FIGHTERS
We'd like to increase the potential counter-play options vs fighters. We're going to do this by increasing their signature radius which makes them a little easier to hit. They are currently around the small-medium drone range. This will put them in the same size category as heavy drones.
Additionally, we're giving Shadow fighters a balance pass.

Changes:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority) - Signature Radius: 80 (+43)
  • Light Fighters (Attack) - Signature Radius: 100 (+59)
  • Support Fighters - Signature Radius: 120 (+80)
  • Heavy Fighters (Attack) - Signature Radius: 110 (+60)
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range) - Signature Radius: 120 (+60)
  • Shadows - Signature Radius: 100 (+55)
  • Shadows - EM Damage: 200 (+40)
  • Shadows - Thermal Damage: 200 (+40)

These changes bring Fighters closer in-line with the signature of Heavy Drones.
Lastly, there was a bug when our AI evaluated the threat of fighters. NPCs didn't consider fighters as threatening as they should have. This bug has now been fixed, and NPCs will more often shoot at fighters.
You may also want to check out this thread about brand new fighter hotkeys (thanks Five-0!)


SUPERCARRIERS
After our discussions with the CSM, they brought up the state of the Wyvern fighter hangar bay (and shield supers in general). While we'll re-asses the state of shield supers after the release of Shield Slaves, we think their points about fighter hangar bays had some merit.

Changes:
  • Wyvern Fighter Hangar Bay): 90,000 (+10,000) m3
  • Hel Fighter Hangar Bay: 110,000 (+10,000) m3


BURST PROJECTORS
We're going to increase the effect duration of burst projectors. The difficulty in using them doesn't really justify their existing small effect time.

Changes:
  • ECM Jammer Burst Projector Effect Duration: 40 (+10) seconds
  • Sensor Dampening Burst Projector Effect Duration: 60 (+30) seconds
  • Weapon Disruption Burst Projector Effect Duration: 60 (+30) seconds
  • Target Illumination Burst Projector Effect Duration: 60 (+30) seconds
  • Warp Disruption Burst Projector Effect Duration: 40 (+20) seconds
  • Stasis Webification Burst Projector Effect Duration: 40 (+20) seconds




The problem with counter-play to fighters is not their sig size though. Even if you have ECM on field, its still possible to fail jam, and loose a great deal of ships.

If you do not have ecm, your battling against a monumental ALPHA, fighters simply have too much weapon accuracy in order to be balanced. Frigates are not normally blapped by heavy misisles cruisers when travelling at 3km/s why should fighters be any different.

You stated once in one of your original Dev documentaries that "in EVE size doesnt mean everything" but in fighter cases, that seems to be a little out of perspective.

I would highly reccomend re-visiting the accuracy of the weapons you have made specifically for fighters (which use both partially-use missiles and turret mechanics) in order to reduce their damage to smaller targets, and make evasive fleets viable again.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#98 - 2017-02-24 13:36:05 UTC
This makes me laugh ^^

I've done some carrier ratting and the following statement is true:

If you are carrier pveing and your fighters target dies, you have less then 5 seconds. if you dont attk the next target in these 5 seconds the first fighter is gone.

Also webbing npcs make your fighters die fairly quickly already.

Does that REALLY need a nerf? just lol ^^

Fighter squads are really expensive. Most ppl i know dont even use t2 fighters for pve because they are really risky to use.

Just lol....

If you want battleships to hit fighters, at least seriously buff their hp pls...

lol
Lugh Crow-Slave
#99 - 2017-02-24 13:40:01 UTC
Sieve Boy wrote:
Carriers are already a pathetic joke in wormhole space already, they get used to roll holes and that is it. The sleepers tear the fighters apart just fine and any pvp carrier gets defanged because it's hilariously easy.

Not sure what game you're playing or stats you are watching Larrikan, cause I make fighters in hi sec and they sell pretty quickly, people lose them so much. Except for support fighters. It's sirens or forget it.

Instead of making something already in a bad place worse, how about you address the problem of DSTs full of booster 3200 parked next to cap injector faxes in WH space? Something that requires a stupid number of Bhaalghorns to neut out.



If they are selling that well it means they are getting used that well...



But yeah they are a joke and it has nothing to do with killing them in pvp they are stupid easy to jam and yeah I wish I knew why they made support fighters so ****

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#100 - 2017-02-24 13:41:41 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
This makes me laugh ^^

I've done some carrier ratting and the following statement is true:

If you are carrier pveing and your fighters target dies, you have less then 5 seconds. if you dont attk the next target in these 5 seconds the first fighter is gone.

Also webbing npcs make your fighters die fairly quickly already.

Does that REALLY need a nerf? just lol ^^

Fighter squads are really expensive. Most ppl i know dont even use t2 fighters for pve because they are really risky to use.

Just lol....

If you want battleships to hit fighters, at least seriously buff their hp pls...

lol



As pve balance issue really isn't a concern when up against how it's balanced pvp and it was kinda dumb that they were harder to hit than heavies

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble