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Dev blog: Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes

First post First post First post
Author
Isler Twy'Lar
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#661 - 2016-10-22 20:22:51 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
I'm sure what I'm about to type has been stated multiple times through out the process of this structure rework in EVE.

The Medium Engineering Complex will require 9 hours of vulnerability weekly, with 18 hours and 36 hours for the Large and XL Engineering Complexes respectively

... is a stupid mechanic. Give them an extra timer for reinforce or destruction but making something in space invulnerable for all but 9/18/36 hours a week is lame. The most common argument is 'this is the way it worked before technically' and while I agree to some extent with POS's and outposts being easy to change when the timers came out, think of it from a hostile FC standpoint... I want to make a name for myself in my new alliance by going out and reinforcing stuff, picking fights, poking beehives, flying spaceships. With a POS or outpost I can go do that, it's floating in space and I can shoot it to provoke a response. You've made all these structures literally invulnerable for all but a tiny window. It's a giant **** mechanic in a game that used be HTFU or GTFO.


Fine. Take away their invulnerability. But give them back their auto weapon systems.
Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier
Pandemic Horde
#662 - 2016-10-22 20:35:38 UTC
Nfynity Prime wrote:
RainReaper wrote:
...after having been on SISI today and seen the new numbers I have to say im immensly disapointed...
The aparent new numbers of 5 fuel blocks for the research services have now been chagned to 20.
So we are back on to what the dev blog stated.
And to top it of, the Raitaru dosent even have enough powergrid/cpu to use the FEV defencive modules it could slot.
Meaning that its layout of 1 launcher + 2 extra highs, 2 mids and 1 low cant all be used att the SAME TIME.
Meaning that this thing is so IMMENSLY WEAK that you have to be a BIG GROUP in order to even be able to DEFEND A STRUCTURE MEANT FOR A SMALL GROUP.
Meaning I might as well go for a FLIPING AZBEL if I wanted to have even a remotely good chance to even think about being able to defend it. but then again that thing is meant for decent sized groups and not SMALL GROUPS.
The Raitaru looks cool, but its nothing but a mistake.
AND IT HURTS ME IMMENSLY TO SAY THAT!


These complexes are completely worthless again to all but the biggest corps. They had it right with the research and invention modules at 5 blocks. Even though the 15 blocks for the manufacturing was still high, it was going in the right direction. They were still nowhere as good as a POS, but at least the fuel costs were more in alignment with a medium POS. Now I guess it's back to the NPC station for everything for a very large percentage of us, since 20 blocks for all modules is insane. Why would I want 3 times the fuel cost for reduced functionality and increased risk and vulnerability?


If it is really the case, i mean "most of us pushed back to station", then i would expect the selling price of end products to rise to reflect those increasing cost. The market may adapt and you would make at the end the same profit.
Isler Twy'Lar
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#663 - 2016-10-22 20:36:48 UTC
Kinizsi wrote:
I think you are missing a key point.

Citadel services go offline if they are not fuelled, but the structure still protects all your asset, not just invul timers but with the asset safety mechanism.

If you don't use a service, you don't fuel it. You don't need to fuel the service only if you are building something, not 24/7 regardless of it's usage. So if you are not in building something, you let the fuel run out, or just grab the fuel from the fuel bay, and turn it offline stopping all fuel consumption, but still protecting your stuff.


Btw, I believe the asset safety mechanism is non existent in WH space. Combine that with weak non-auto defenses, they just don't seem to be worth the trouble.
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#664 - 2016-10-22 23:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobb Bobbington
Are BPO costs going to be 7b, 52b, and 300b respectively? Those are 10x the numbers cited for producing the complex, but I didn't see any hard numbers in the dev blog

One more question for CCP: It currently stands that the M array has a 20h copy time, the L has a ~172H copy time, and the x-large has a 119H copy time! I assume it is a typo that the large ignores progression and has a longer copy time than the extra large?? Logically large should have a 50H copy time, that would be
20h*2.5=50*2.5=120

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#665 - 2016-10-23 03:33:00 UTC
Hm... So they have now decreased the fuel cost of the 2 research services and the main manufacturing service to 15 fuel blocks every hour it seems.
Taking the total down to 45 blocks (33-34) blocks when you use all 3 service slots on the Raitaru.
While this is an improvement its defences are still absolute trash, and my old statement about small groups not being able to protect it att all still stands.
I still cant even use all of my Raitaru's slots because the powergrid/CPU is just to low.
AND because the Raitaru only have 1 low slot I cant even boost my CPU and powergrid in order to accualy use the low slot for the one thing it needs,
The Ballistic control system in order to boost its absolute **** damage to be just a little bit less ****.
Which is still super **** I will have you know.
Which means I might as well jsut leave the low slot empty.
Cause i wont put extra isk on that kill mail for no reason.
RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#666 - 2016-10-23 03:47:27 UTC  |  Edited by: RainReaper
RainReaper wrote:
Hm... So they have now decreased the fuel cost of the 2 research services and the main manufacturing service to 15 fuel blocks every hour it seems.
Taking the total down to 45 blocks (33-34) blocks when you use all 3 service slots on the Raitaru.
While this is an improvement its defences are still absolute trash, and my old statement about small groups not being able to protect it att all still stands.
I still cant even use all of my Raitaru's slots because the powergrid/CPU is just to low.
AND because the Raitaru only have 1 low slot I cant even boost my CPU and powergrid in order to accualy use the low slot for the one thing it needs,
The Ballistic control system in order to boost its absolute **** damage to be just a little bit less ****.
Which is still super **** I will have you know.
Which means I might as well jsut leave the low slot empty.
Cause i wont put extra isk on that kill mail for no reason.


Listen guys.
A simple fix to the bit I just stated about cpu and powergrid being low is this.
Get rid of copying on the research service and put it on the invention service!
As it curently stands.
In order for me to build everything I want to build., T1/T2 I NEED the research one for... only its copying. wich have nothing to do with the Research of blueprints to do.
If you placed copying in the invention service I could free up that one slot on my Raitaru. geting some cpu/powergrid back and freeing up enough of it to online the low slot balistic control system for some extra damage.
this way people who jsut want to build can get the 30 blocks(22,5) and focus on that. while people who want a Research Raitaru can just have a Research service. and use that for that. as it currently stands im forced to cripple my structure in order to do any efficient industry.
Besides.
I would much rather have a Refining service in the Raitaru... as it is currently I cant... cause I need all 3 service slots in order to be able to build anything T2. the pic where miners flock to the Raitaru as it currently stands is a lie lol. they cant refine their ores there!

(PS its currently 05:46 so if i wrote somethign that dosent make sense sry im not awake att this point.)
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#667 - 2016-10-23 12:09:32 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
There is no place in New Eden for small groups and individual game play, we are slowly getting forced out..
Yes there is. It's called the NPC station and is still there like it always has been.

1. If you want safety it is there. If you don't want to deal with defense or fuel or specialization of a structure you can do so and still build almost everything in the game just as you did before.

2. The only thing that is changing is some risk vs. reward is being restored to the game. Now industrialists who take the risk to deploy a vulnerable structure and/or form groups will benefit from these efficiencies. These changes actually put some decisions of how to do industry back into the game, and open whole new areas of game play. They make grouping up and direct disruption of your rivals valid strategies once more, unlike the invulnerable, solo and predictable exercise in spreadsheet making current industry has degenerated into.

3. But if you like building things, you still can as a solo industrialist. You may have to settle for lower profit than those that organize and take risks, but that is how this game is suppose to work. Besides, why do you need all those profits if you never are putting anything at risk?

4. Ultimately we are all content for each other in this game. If you are not willing to offer yourself up as content, you should be penalized with lower rewards. This is how Eve always was suppose to work. I understand some people don't like change, but this fix has been long overdue.

5. This new age of structures is going to continue to change the face of New Eden, but both I, and CCP it seems, feel these changes are in the best long-term interests of the game. I suggest you just try to forget what you know about industry and approach the new mechanics from the perspective of how you can best profit from them, not pining for the past. It's going to be a transition for everyone (including your rivals), and times of upheaval usually have the best opportunity for profit.
You know something Pedro - I couldn't give 2 shites what you think "is best for the game", your a professional forum troll who just loves to spout off on topics he has no understanding of, oh and you do presume to know "everything" so often it really has become boring.

The ONLY reason I am bothered responding to your post is to point out just how wrong your presumptions are.

1. I never said I wanted safety and so should not be forced to take lower profits because CCP is "balancing" me out of my play style.
I am simply asking for a level playing field similar to what I have now, 18 hours per week is a part time job, which CCP is asking me to pay to work at.
I'd be happy to build an EC for my corp - If it didn't require giving up more time to Eve than I already do, It wasn't going to cost me at least 75% more to run said structure than it does to run my current structures.
I mean, you really should learn a little about what it is your saying, before making yourself look so foolish.

2. You honestly don't have a clue what your talking about - Just stop now before you completely humiliate yourself (your reputation is bad enough as it is, troll)

3. See again your wrong - Eve is meant to be a sandbox, where everyone has the opportunity to undertake play styles as they choose - CCP removing the ability for solo and small groups to participate is all down to bad management and design.
If by some slim chance you are right then CCP needs to stop advertising Eve Online as a single shard Sandbox Game and start advertising it as a single shard game, where your opportunities are only limited by the size of the group you choose to join.

4. Yes we are - AND isn't it a shame Devs are taking such an active part in directing and limiting who, when, where and how we interact with each other.

5. You just don't understand at all - I'm not pining for the past, I've been waiting a long time for Devs to do something about pos's but this is just not balanced or even close to what devs first started out with. It is totally biased against anyone who isn't part of a medium or large group.

CCP's announcement for Citadels
Quote:
Citadels: Cities built in the Heavens
What a load of rubbish, lies, half truth's that was. I'm sorry but Devs just don't get it.. And sadly they have shown quite convincingly, they don't care what players say or expect from Dev teams.

If I missed responding to anything from your inaccurate, laughable, joke filled post, do let me know I'd be happy to address it for you...

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#668 - 2016-10-23 12:34:51 UTC
Fuel on the services are back to 20 blocks every hour... never mind then.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#669 - 2016-10-23 14:46:57 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
You know something Pedro - I couldn't give 2 shites what you think "is best for the game", your a professional forum troll who just loves to spout off on topics he has no understanding of, oh and you do presume to know "everything" so often it really has become boring.
Ah, personal insults. The last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

The rest of your post is straight-out moaning about how "unfair" it is that you are losing your invulnerable highsec industrial POSes. Here's the thing: no one cares what you think. CCP is correcting a mistake of the past with these new structures and you can't do anything about it (other than to continue to impotently whine on the forums). You will shortly have a choice. Either you play by the new rules, or you go away. CCP I am sure wants you to stay, but not at the cost of letting you opt out of the sandbox game play they are developing. They have provided several ways to build stuff, at various levels of risk, and you will now have to choose the one of those that suits you, or if you prefer, take your business to another game more suited to your desires.

I have no sympathy for your tears over the fact that you no longer can make stuff by yourself, and with no assets as risk, as efficiently as large groups who invest time and assets in building and defending an industrial operation. You will still be able to build everything that you could before (and in complete safety if you want), only you'll pay a tiny bit more than large groups who are offering themselves up as a target. Boo hoo.

And you clearly care despite your protestations, otherwise you wouldn't bother personally attacking me and "refuting" my points by just waving your arms around and shouting loudly that they are wrong. If you have a point other than the false claim that "sandbox means I should be able to do whatever I want" as to why CCP should leave invulnerable, all-powerful industry structures in the game, I am eager to hear it. Saying that you "don't care" doesn't magically make it so.

You should have to defend your in-space structures. I am not even sure most of the dyed-in-the-wool carebears share your radical view you should be able to enjoy industrial structures but not have to defend them or pay for them. Such an invulnerable structure really has no place in a competitive PvP sandbox game like Eve Online where the developers are actively trying to avoid "directing and limiting who, when, where and how we interact with each other" by making us all vulnerable to each other all the time.
RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#670 - 2016-10-23 16:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: RainReaper
And its back to 15 blocks for the 2 research services and the main manufacturing servi- you know what im just gonna wait now. Cause they arent sure themselves what they are doing currently with this I belive.
Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier
Pandemic Horde
#671 - 2016-10-23 20:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Chani El'zrya
Ok i gave a try on SISI.

1) Is it possible to avoid to put service online by default when it is drag and drop on fitting screen ?
That cost tremendous fuel that i would not want to pay when i fit the structure.

2) I will not even bother to put any module. The cost for such low dps do not seem justified.

3) still waiting for fozzie to hear about fuel cost
Nfynity Prime
Nfynity Prime Corp
Shadow of Nfynity
#672 - 2016-10-23 21:00:19 UTC
RainReaper wrote:
And its back to 15 blocks for the 2 research services and the main manufacturing servi- you know what im just gonna wait now. Cause they arent sure themselves what they are doing currently with this I belive.


They were 20, but when fitted they account for the 25% reduction in fuel costs, which takes them to 15 each. That might be what you're seeing, unless they changed once again, lol.

Regardless, they are still so expensive as to make the whole complex worthless for all but those in very large coprs, or those who want a full time job keeping them running. Sorry but I already have a full time job and would like to play Eve for enjoyment. Is that too much to ask? Maybe so if the devs have their way.
Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#673 - 2016-10-23 22:06:14 UTC
So many new item for so many rigs that won't ever be used..
Market gonna lag a bit more...

Why don't keep things simple CCP ?

Faction POS in high sec is still much more efficient for small groups right ? ( + auto fire in wardec...)

Please don't make that amount of rigs, it's a waste of energy.. Keep it simple in the scalability of the feature.. M to XL should have the same rigs distribution..

Right now, a faction POS got pretty much the same capability of an EC but a much smaller upkeep cost...
More over, you can swith a POS to refine/manufacture/invent in a instant without costs like thousands of fuel block to online anything...
That mean EC is more restrictive in its gameplay and does not allow for much player initiative in the reitting related to POS.

COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#674 - 2016-10-23 22:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Black Pedro wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
You know something Pedro - I couldn't give 2 shites what you think "is best for the game", your a professional forum troll who just loves to spout off on topics he has no understanding of, oh and you do presume to know "everything" so often it really has become boring.
Ah, personal insults. The last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

The rest of your post is straight-out moaning about how "unfair" it is that you are losing your invulnerable highsec industrial POSes. Here's the thing: no one cares what you think. CCP is correcting a mistake of the past with these new structures and you can't do anything about it (other than to continue to impotently whine on the forums). You will shortly have a choice. Either you play by the new rules, or you go away. CCP I am sure wants you to stay, but not at the cost of letting you opt out of the sandbox game play they are developing. They have provided several ways to build stuff, at various levels of risk, and you will now have to choose the one of those that suits you, or if you prefer, take your business to another game more suited to your desires.

I have no sympathy for your tears over the fact that you no longer can make stuff by yourself, and with no assets as risk, as efficiently as large groups who invest time and assets in building and defending an industrial operation. You will still be able to build everything that you could before (and in complete safety if you want), only you'll pay a tiny bit more than large groups who are offering themselves up as a target. Boo hoo.

And you clearly care despite your protestations, otherwise you wouldn't bother personally attacking me and "refuting" my points by just waving your arms around and shouting loudly that they are wrong. If you have a point other than the false claim that "sandbox means I should be able to do whatever I want" as to why CCP should leave invulnerable, all-powerful industry structures in the game, I am eager to hear it. Saying that you "don't care" doesn't magically make it so.

You should have to defend your in-space structures. I am not even sure most of the dyed-in-the-wool carebears share your radical view you should be able to enjoy industrial structures but not have to defend them or pay for them. Such an invulnerable structure really has no place in a competitive PvP sandbox game like Eve Online where the developers are actively trying to avoid "directing and limiting who, when, where and how we interact with each other" by making us all vulnerable to each other all the time.
Pedro - Telling someone the truth is not insulting them, unless they like you, wish to be insulted by the truth. You belittle and throw around false statements in pretty much every post you submit - But when someone else does it, they are personally attacking you - Pedro, get over yourself, your nothing but a self indulgent kid, who understands nothing about the people he is posting to or about.

Again YOUR wrong, in fact so wrong (who said my pos's are in highsec), I'm going to call you a CCP employee because that is how much insight they have in what they are doing. If I'm forced to pay more (make less profit) due to the high running costs of an EC or using npc stations. It simply means less accounts will get subbed each month, that's really good for eve huh.



Who says my pos's are in highsec? your wrong, again - Learn what your talking about Before posting on the subject. Being wrong every time damages your reputation - Not that you really have one to damage.

Your wrong, I have always had assets at risk - and it was a risk I could manage without turning Eve (A GAME I ALREADY PAY TO PLAY) into a part time job. Did that years ago before I realized how much affect eve was having on my life, so I cut back my eve time to something that fit with my preferred life style - Now CCP (and you) is telling me that to keep up my Eve as I want to play it, I have to dedicate More hours to defending structures? And you try to call that an improvement?
-- - -- - --
As for the rest of your response, I will presume it is like your starting paragraph *totally wrong* so I'm not going to read or respond to it..

Pedro - Your a CCP can do no wrong troll - The WORST kind of troll in the forums.
Do us all a favour - Grow a pair, learn think for yourself and please don't bother replying to any of my posts again.. The false assumptions and incorrect information you spout - Is just not constructive.

If I want CCP's opinion, I'll ask CCP not you.


Hoping, still hoping we have at least One Dev at CCP who actually cares what those most affected by these changes thinks, will respond on the forums or with a blog, explaining (from CCP's point of view) How forcing small industrialist groups out of the game, is good for the game.
At this point, it is probably best to let all but my main just die off as subs expire - I can sell the years and years worth of accrued assets, sub one account for the next 4 or 5 years with no effort at all. Let alone having to commit more time than I already do to a Game, simply because the devs think it is best if we force players to spend more time online.

-- - -- - -- - --
I'm sorry Pedro but you just threw away any last bit of credibility you may have had left.
Quote:
Pedro said - competitive PvP sandbox game like Eve Online where the developers are actively trying to avoid "directing and limiting who, when, where and how we interact with each other" by making us all vulnerable to each other all the time.
Have you read ANY of the dev blogs from the last 6 months? Do you understand the simple mechanic of limited vulnerability? Do you know ANYTHING about how Eve is played?
Your response would indicate - No you don't - You are simply clueless and seem to enjoy making it up as you go.


Sorry if this comes off as insulting you but it is so hard not to when you come out with such blatant shite.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#675 - 2016-10-23 22:21:16 UTC
Nfynity Prime wrote:
RainReaper wrote:
And its back to 15 blocks for the 2 research services and the main manufacturing servi- you know what im just gonna wait now. Cause they arent sure themselves what they are doing currently with this I belive.


They were 20, but when fitted they account for the 25% reduction in fuel costs, which takes them to 15 each. That might be what you're seeing, unless they changed once again, lol.

Regardless, they are still so expensive as to make the whole complex worthless for all but those in very large coprs, or those who want a full time job keeping them running. Sorry but I already have a full time job and would like to play Eve for enjoyment. Is that too much to ask? Maybe so if the devs have their way.

More than anything, I'm a bit jaded that no-one at CCP has seen fit to address any of the concerns in this thread.

CCP ask for player feedback (they even said they would improve communication between players and Devs) and unless it totally agrees with what Devs think is best - Gets ignored.
Seems no-one at CCP actually has any time for its players.

Come November, we stay or we let ourselves be forced out by Devs - They don't seem to care, so why should we.
The F2P Alpha clones will save Eve (that is even funnier now I see it on the page)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#676 - 2016-10-24 00:16:23 UTC
Chani El'zrya wrote:
still waiting for fozzie to hear about


We've been waiting a week for anyone to get back to us about our concerns...

...I just hope the large bloc CSMs aren't convincing them to keep the fuel high to screw the non-alcoholic industrials over!
Bussan
Kabukicho
#677 - 2016-10-24 01:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bussan
At the end the fuel problem is not even the cost in isks... that will be covered by the market adapting to the new prices.

The main problem to me is the increased waste of time that devs are forcing me into.
Increased fuel means increased time to gather the mats (be it getting the ice/pi by yourself, or buying bigger stocks on the market), and more hauling trips needed for the increased mass/h of fuel.

Moreover having to spread ECs around the system (or various systems) because one is not enough to do what I need anymore, increases the travel time between them and/or the "main" citadel. All boring useless waste of time that doesn't add anything to the game. Just cuts out the time I usually spend in more "active" things like pve or pvp.
Even worse if I start using public ECs, as they for sure won't be exactly where I need... will have to probably travel a lot to get the combination of rigs+indexes I want.

And finally they always talked about these new structures like our new "home", like a way to build our cities in the space... too bad that all the structures are completely independent and not interacting with each other at all... actually you are forced to keep them away... what a waste.
Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier
Pandemic Horde
#678 - 2016-10-24 05:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Chani El'zrya
Bussan wrote:
At the end the fuel problem is not even the cost in isks... that will be covered by the market adapting to the new prices.


I agree, but still you have to make a decision between producing in NPC station or in ECs based on which solution is the most cost effective (and time consuming)
Bussan
Kabukicho
#679 - 2016-10-24 05:56:29 UTC
Chani El'zrya wrote:
Bussan wrote:
At the end the fuel problem is not even the cost in isks... that will be covered by the market adapting to the new prices.


I agree, but still you have to make a decision between producing in NPC station or in ECs based on which solution is the most cost effective (and time consuming)


True that... but honestly years of changes to indy and related mechanics to push the people away from the npc stations, and give them more diversity in this side of the game... and now we are going again back to a similar situation?
I understand that NPC stations are an option, so they should be included in this general talk, but if people actually have to think that much to choose between NPC stations and ECs, I guess there is something wrong in the new system...
Black Pedro
Mine.
#680 - 2016-10-24 06:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Sgt Ocker wrote:
If I'm forced to pay more (make less profit) due to the high running costs of an EC or using npc stations. It simply means less accounts will get subbed each month, that's really good for eve huh.
Why are you so sure of that? The profit motive might drive industrialists to organize and interact with each other, as well as possibly create conflict and content as industrialists now have reason to shoot one another. Both of these could increase/retain subscribers. In any case, why are you so concerned over CCP's finances? I find it strange so many players resort to the argument "you should tilt the game more in my favour or me and a other bunch of subscribers will quit and CCP will lose money". Don't worry about CCP's finances, that is their problem and they didn't ask for your help. You should focus on providing feedback on how they can make their game better.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Your wrong, I have always had assets at risk - and it was a risk I could manage without turning Eve (A GAME I ALREADY PAY TO PLAY) into a part time job. Did that years ago before I realized how much affect eve was having on my life, so I cut back my eve time to something that fit with my preferred life style - Now CCP (and you) is telling me that to keep up my Eve as I want to play it, I have to dedicate More hours to defending structures? And you try to call that an improvement?
Good for you. According to CCP Quant 85% of the other industrialists do not have any risk as they currently do their industry in invulnerable POSes in highsec. CCP has decided to put them back at some risk, but if you were always at risk I don't see why you are complaining about them being vulnerable. Your POS was vulnerable 24h a day and only had one reinforcement timer. These guys are only vulnerable for a fraction of that time and give you an extra chance to mount a defence. Further, your assets are completely safe even if you lose it (except in a WH) so on paper these things a better in almost every way to defend.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
If I'm forced to pay more (make less profit) due to the high running costs of an EC or using npc stations. It Have you read ANY of the dev blogs from the last 6 months? Do you understand the simple mechanic of limited vulnerability? Do you know ANYTHING about how Eve is played?
Your response would indicate - No you don't - You are simply clueless and seem to enjoy making it up as you go.
Unlike the current POS mechanics, one of these new structures in highsec is actually vulnerable to attack by the other players. Yes, you need a wardec, and yes there are only certain windows you can attack, but it is actually vulnerable now to attack unlike the current POSes which can be taken down during the 24h warm-up to a war. That is a massive improvement to enabling sandbox game play as players can now interact with another group and attack another group if they so wish.

Still highsec is highsec and is suppose to be safer so I have no problem with 24h notice being given before an attack. Similarly, people cannot be online 24h a day so it is reasonable to have defender-selected vulnerability windows so that defenders can shape the time of attack to a window when they are likely to be online. These are reasonable accommodations to the fact this is just a video game but still allow sandbox gameplay to take place if an attacker really wants to interact with another group and attempt to destroy their structures.

I am confused by your ranting though. Do you not think the defender should have limited vulnerability windows? Or are you just attacking me again personally with baseless claims I don't understand the mechanics?

I think it is time for you to deal with the new reality. You will not be able to use your structures as efficiently as you did before. They are going to cost more, do less, and if deployed in highsec, you will have to defend them now. Stamping your feet and demanding CCP to explain themselves to you isn't going to get you anywhere. CCP Fozzie or whomever will be along shortly and answer some of our questions and perhaps have some iterations to report based on the feedback in this thread, but the core mechanics of these structures will remain the same.

I am sorry you are not happy with these changes, but you can't make everyone happy all the time.