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Dev blog: Skill level complete - A new character sheet for EVE Online

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Author
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#61 - 2016-10-14 05:38:35 UTC
CCP Sharq wrote:
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Will there be an option for people who pay for the game not to have all this alpha and omega trash show up in the margins?
I really like that when i pay for something that everything is the same color.
Or if that won't work an option to keep the old skill queue/sheet. (it complements my particular autism.)


Upgrade to omega links and omega skill level restrictions (gold boxes) in the skill bars will only show for the Alpha players

I'd actually kind of like to see what skills would stay active were I to drop to Alpha level, just not as blatantly obvious as when you're actually alpha and it says EVERYWHERE to spend money to be awesome.
Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#62 - 2016-10-14 10:22:51 UTC
Few things that came in to mind when testing new character sheet (skills part).


  • Total Skill Points shown to alpha is limited to alpha skills. I think it should show both or all and note that there is really less than that active. At least tooltip to show what is the real total amount.
  • The bar graphs on skill group background are not comparable to each other. In old system I liked to see in what groups my skills are. E.g. half of the skills are in Armor or so. In new system I though I had more Engineering skills than Fleet Support, while really it's the other way around
  • I think blue and orange/yellow are not good combination of colors. Presuming the orange/yellow is that it's I would think what the blue could be changed to.
  • Skill books have "Compare" in their context menu. Not sure how that is useful
  • I can't find any list of all of the certificates. I need to go through all of the skill groups
  • Omega upgrade window has yellow top border with white buttons. Could you keep the same look and feel with these windows and have the black/themed border around the windows. Also the skill queue is not infinite with omega, no time restriction, but max 50 skills (unless there is change to this).
  • Omega upgrade dialog could close when background is clicked or something
  • Skill tooltips appear on top and the window is used moving cursor up and down, thus the tooltips appear on my way when trying to select another group. Not sure if they could appear on the left or not.
  • Skills that have some levels open for alpha shouldn't have tooltip "requires omega to be used".


repeat from previous comment:

  • Filter that would limit currently visible skills. E.g. select armor skills and filter with "comp".
  • Have skills as single list instead of grid so they can be searched with more ease (by looking at them).
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#63 - 2016-10-14 10:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Esrevid Nekkeg
Obidiah Kane wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
Good god man... why are you taking up half the screen on such pointless information as how many skills you've trained in each group and a giant head?

You're aware you've left what appears to be about 150px to show the actual *substantial* functional part of the skill queue, right?

The previous (current TQ) layout is _much_ more functional and intuitive.

You've already been shown the way to go about it by player-made mockups, get that list stacked in a vertical single-column down the left hand side, give much more room for the training queue, get rid of that horrible 3-column layout when a table is much more appropriate, especially with all the vertical space you would regain from fixing that godawful skill-type list.

Regards, a frustrated UI designer banging his head on the desk.



I think it looks great - it is a computer game, they are wanting it to appeal to new players - to ensure the future of said game and their careers. This is meant to get rid of the spreadsheet in space stigma, retain demographics other than the entitled neckbeard. The current layout is mid-90s, and needs sorting, badly (are you really in UX???!!)

It is also wholly disconnected from your ego, although I don't think you will appreciate that (this game isn't here to satisfy just you, dearest) - but your condescending arrogance and attitude toward this team of devs is still a bit shocking; I am guessing you would react pretty badly to similar criticism.

Please bang harder, way harder, for a long time.
If you can't refute the message, attack the messenger.... right....

On topic: Please leave the option open for use of the current skill queue. I do not mind, no, I actually enjoy adapting to changes in game mechanics as they require new tactics and quite often open up new possibilities.
What I loathe is changes in UI appearance an functionality. Adapting to that takes time away from playing the game itself and in my experience those changes are not always an improvement. Looking at you, Neocomm.....

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......

SeVenNight Deng
Tai-Chi
Northern Coalition.
#64 - 2016-10-14 11:36:30 UTC
please find another way to present the skill level on Requirement tab. The squares is really bad.

I kind of doubt did you put any efforts or thinking on it because you only have 5 level skill and you simple put five square on it???? You have way more options than putting five square with maximum V skill level. Really disappointed.
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#65 - 2016-10-14 11:44:07 UTC
So I just got around to really checking out this new character sheet on SISI..

and the character portrait is even worse than I imagined. it's a total waste of space and looks ugly.

the portrait cannot be zoomed in/out, so it's a half cropped head that moves around.

I honestly prefer the layout of the display pic and character info that is on the current character sheet. the static square display pic with the info opposite is simple and easy to understand.

I like the idea of the animated character portrait, and this could apply to a square layout, although the low quality of the character render (not-even anti-aliasing fixes it) just looks horrible. I prefer the well rendered static image.

The character sheet needs to bring back the option to view portrait/full view, so we can admire our vanity items (RIP CQ)



  • Character portrait header is a waste of space
  • Square pic shows more of character
  • Current picture is better rendered
  • Make portrait zoomable
  • Option to view full body

Annexe

ITAI - VIP

"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"

Josef Djugashvilis
#66 - 2016-10-14 11:45:27 UTC
Untelo1 wrote:
Have you thought about doing something like this instead? The vertical skill queue should not have more horizontal space than vertical.


CCP please take heed of this ^^^ suggestion.

This is not a signature.

Kaivarian Coste
Whale Patrol
#67 - 2016-10-14 12:13:49 UTC
Looks pretty cool. I like how it recommends skills to train.
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#68 - 2016-10-14 14:04:44 UTC
I logged in to sisi, and I'm sad to say i can no longer copy/paste my total number of SP :(

On a more serious note... I couldn't find a way to see exactly how many SP I had in a particular skill. Because of this, I didn't know if it was worth clicking the button to apply unallocated SP to skill.

Did I miss it, or is that not a thing we can see with the new character sheet? I found it really handy with the current TQ skill list.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#69 - 2016-10-14 15:26:58 UTC
Hi,


  • This UI needs more clicks than before to do the same things. That's bad.
  • Space is not optimized, for the amount of space on screen you can only display this amount of skills outside of the skillqueue? That's awful.
  • Related to 2-, the amount of skills you can see in the skillqueue is very very small, making it much harder to use the skillqueue.


TL;DR: CCP you went for form over function and, just like with the beta map and beta scanner, this is awful design that shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day.

We don't care how good it looks (imo it's not even that pretty), if the usability of the new feature is smaller than the usability of the current feature. It's as simple as that. This is an unavoidable condition for community acceptation. If usability stays the same or increases, THEN we can talk about this change being a good thing.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Jean LaForge
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#70 - 2016-10-14 15:29:26 UTC
I dunno, Kev.
Atom HV
Atom HV LEADER
#71 - 2016-10-14 15:39:20 UTC
Skill monthly fee that must be paid? If you don't pay a monthly low skill levels remained? Evil
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#72 - 2016-10-14 16:01:45 UTC
Atom HV wrote:
Skill monthly fee that must be paid? If you don't pay a monthly low skill levels remained? Evil



But you can still play, without paying the fee. Unlike right now, where the game just stops.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#73 - 2016-10-14 18:05:01 UTC
The new character sheet looks good. I even went on SiSi with one of my alts to play around with it a bit. Found nothing bad so far, except for the minor annoyance of getting plastered with PLEASE UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!! messages. Apparently the last time CCP mirrored TQ they happened to take the one day my alt wasn't subbed, fancy that.
Atom HV
Atom HV LEADER
#74 - 2016-10-14 19:55:35 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Atom HV wrote:
Skill monthly fee that must be paid? If you don't pay a monthly low skill levels remained? Evil



But you can still play, without paying the fee. Unlike right now, where the game just stops.





I understand. I used PLEX 2 monthly pay. But pay plus skill.
Just ask plex skill and pay well?


A paying PLEX for example, 60 days.

Skill will be paid 30 days in November. For small confused.


Thank you wait replied. Advice.Cool
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#75 - 2016-10-14 20:07:38 UTC
Atom HV wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Atom HV wrote:
Skill monthly fee that must be paid? If you don't pay a monthly low skill levels remained? Evil



But you can still play, without paying the fee. Unlike right now, where the game just stops.





I understand. I used PLEX 2 monthly pay. But pay plus skill.
Just ask plex skill and pay well?


A paying PLEX for example, 60 days.

Skill will be paid 30 days in November. For small confused.


Thank you wait replied. Advice.Cool



There was a dev blog on this recently. And a video.


CCP are introducing two different clone states. Alpha and Omega.

If you do not pay the subscription (by plex or real money) you have an alpha clone. This is limited with what skills it can use.

If you pay, you have an omega clone, which isn't limited.

If you were paying, and stop, you fall back to an alpha clone. You do not lose skills, but you can't use the ones outside of alpha limits. If you pay your subscription, you shift back to Omega, and can use all your skills again.

There's no additional charges being introduced. Just a way to play without paying (in a very limited fashion)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Atom HV
Atom HV LEADER
#76 - 2016-10-14 20:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Atom HV
Thank you!


We'll see what the results skill. November.
I usually just pay real money hazsnálok plex.
That's right.


Thanks again! Straight Steve Ronuken
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#77 - 2016-10-14 22:40:18 UTC
Here is a side by side comparison of the old and the new in default configuration. Note that I run 4 characters on my secondary monitor tiled like this (and would love to be able to shrink the window more to have no overlaps. Literally unplayable).

The overall window is much larger. But much of the extra space it takes up, is blank or wasted space.

The Header:

It actually wastes about as much vertical space as the old one did. I agree that the spreadsheet layout of the information on it was not very inviting. However, the new one relies (too)heavily on tooltips, and/or the tooltips are inadequate. Particularly for a new player to figure out what they mean.

I am not in Lanngisi, I'm in Jita. I have to mouse over to understand that is my medical clone location. What is a medical clone? Why does it show a system other than my current system, a new player might wonder. What is that number next to it? Clicking the button tells me I must dock in a station with clone services. That is the extent of information the game provides. My initial feeling was "how far away am I/where is that" and expected clicking the system name as displayed would show the "Show Info" window for that system - the way clicking a system name everywhere else in the game does.

You have a target icon with a number next to it. You have to mouse over to see a tooltip that states "Security Status". What is security status? What does your current security status do for you? What thresholds mean what? This is a good opportunity for you to add a Starship Troopers style "Would you like to know more?". Instead, clicking it takes you to Interactions>Security status to show a log - a spreadsheet that will not mean much for a new player.

The reason the size of the header stands out as a glaring problem now, is because you incorporated the skill queue window into the sheet. The meat and potatoes of working with the queue are squeezed onto one third of the plate.

The Categories (skills/char/interactions etc):

I don't mind going horizontal here. Combat log makes more sense under History than Interactions. Pilot license sounds like something that should be under character at first glance. This should be renamed to "Pilot Services" to better describe the content and match the market group name. Also, please please expand "Pilot license in order" to include the remaining duration on the license. I should not have to restart the client or use a third party program to look up this information.

The Skill Queue:

I'll start with a bug. This character has a paused skill plan. Another is training. After moving around the sheet, the queue shows blank. Note the bar on the bottom still displays the appropriate time for the skills to complete. This kind of missing information is what makes the new probe scanner and map infuriating to use. It's a common "feature" in an increasing number of UI elements.

The categories take far too much space by default. Even shrinking to pure icons adds two skills to the queue view. This needs a vertical sidebar, manually resizable to show only icons, partial, or full names. This would allow you to fit headers for the categories you have established. Also allow alphabetical sorting please.

I don't necessarily mind moving some information to tooltips. The icons for attributes feel too big and could use a short line what it's referring to. You also disregard things like Spaceship command flipping the attribute priority for T2 ships and Planet Management having significant Charisma dependency. Maybe list each pairing and # of skills that use it, or total SP in the category. I would like to see the option to Ctrl Click selecting multiple categories at a time. This way you could open a list of, say, Production and Science skills together.

The skill filter drop down and ship tree button again waste vertical space. These can be incorporated between Total Skill Points and Search. It would have a better flow with horizontal categories. Moving the training start and skill injector there might help as well, though careful arrangement will be required to avoid clutter.

Scrolling through the skills in the category. Tiny window, lots of information. Consider moving the icons for trained level to the right of the skill name, allowing twice as many skills per "page". It has the same issue as scrolling through hundreds of BPC's in industry. You have to drag the anchor with no (page?) up/down arrow for fine tuning a long list. There is too much actually important information in this section to have it so confined. The mouse wheel sort of works for this, but is often too fine. An in-netween option would be nice, or even an up/down button that can be clicked and held.

The Queue has the same scroll bar issue when filled with skills. I dislike the removal of the progress bar showing % complete for each skill. Making each skill take a more narrow row, or a compact view option would be nice here as well. Something roughly half the height of the old skill queue window, using same font size with skill name, level, time to complete and progress bar in one line.

Adding skill to queue
I like the option to click the button on the skill tooltip. Please expand on this. Rather than "add to queue" I would like to see "Queue to level 12345". You list the prerequisite skills in this tooltip already. Please list the skills it unlocks as well, with their own Queue to Level X option if the book is already injected. This way, as an example, I could mouse over the Mining skill and Queue Exhumer 5 with a single click, along with all the prerequisites on the way.

The Queue Bar
I would like the ability to mouse over that skill three and a half months down the road, and get a tooltip showing me which skill in the queue that actually is.




Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#78 - 2016-10-14 22:48:01 UTC
Wishful thinking:
One reason for having to fiddle with my skill queue on a regular basis, is jumping between clones. I typically use a clone with disposable on remap implants. When I log off, I jump into a more expensive, broader clone and often change to a different skill that uses other attributes for the night (ex: drone skills on a mem/int remap). Being able to assign skills a priority like in Eve-mon, with varying priorities based on jump clone, and having the list auto sort when changing clones would be awesome.
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-10-15 01:47:00 UTC
-The new interface does look nice ,not exactly where i think CCP should have turned manpower. But i guess the idea came along the alpha clone ui development process ,so it makes sense to introduce it.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#80 - 2016-10-15 07:04:49 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
Here is a side by side comparison of the old and the new in default configuration. Note that I run 4 characters on my secondary monitor tiled like this (and would love to be able to shrink the window more to have no overlaps. Literally unplayable).

Try this tool that allows you to make and switch between "preview" displays of multiple clients: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=389086.

I don't use it myself as I have a video wall for my clients, but this tool was created by a corpmate of mine and I've heard various players sing its praises.