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Dev blog: Clone States – Post Announcement Follow-up

First post
Author
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#121 - 2016-09-03 23:13:55 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Yes, give everyone an unlimited amount of free alts. Griefers, hackers, botters, terrible persons, I dont care. But there will be no one paying after few months beside them.
Or maybe I should say playing. Not every underaged "gangsta" have enough money in piggybank to pay subscription.
All the character traits you listed above already exist in abundance in EVE. Why are you so afraid? Could it be you realize that light you see coming out of the darkness straight at you, is not the end of the tunnel, it's the Alpha train!
Lee Mealone
Radzone
#122 - 2016-09-03 23:16:14 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:
Lee Mealone wrote:
helana Tsero wrote:
You need to prevent a person with a omega toon from logging on any alpha toons at the same time.

Otherwise EVE pvp will become everyone's omega toons plus their griffin alpha alts. and it will be JAM online and it will suck.


Plus many of us dont enjoy the low graphics, sub 5 fps, tidi, no sound battles that huge null sec engagements become. I was their during the first keepstar kill and it was the most boring, horrible looking (due to low graphics and sub 5 fps) gameplay I have ever experienced in eve. ( I am above the recommended spec and I was not multi boxing)

If you allow simultaneous log in of alpha alts with omega toons these huge tidi, horrible graphics sub 5 ps battles will be extremely frequent.

I want more people (real people not alts) playing eve and I think clone states concept is excellent but ccp you need put in place strong measures to stop alts online. Because right now people will be forced to do it. If my opponent is bring their omegas plus 1 griffin alpha alt (or 5) then I will be forced to do it do.


+1

For me, this is my main concern also.

I agree to the suggestion that Alpha and Omega should not be able to log-in from the same computer at the same time.



Please explain something..

I have 4 accounts, if I decide to let a couple lapse why can't I log them on?

Just because you have both Alpha and Omega accounts should not preclude you from playing with the accounts you own. It's a silly idea.

What about the player who couldn't pay for 2 or 3 accounts, he's not allowed to now make a couple to help him? Simply because of others paranoia?


Not a silly idea as such, it's simply feedback from me to CCP and in that light it's perfectly valid. I'm not expecting everyone to agree. CCP will take feedback from us all and ensure the released feature is the best it can be for the future of EVE. It may well be that CCP allow omega and alpha to login from same computer at same time, I just don't think they should.

Also, afaik, it's not possible to play trial accounts and subscribed accounts at the same time on the same computer. So nothing new there.

It will interesting to see the final patch notes!
Kilo Kodiak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2016-09-03 23:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kilo Kodiak
I have a simple question ///

P I?

Plante interaction as a alfa clone?

if you have like 2.75 million skill points in P I and it was showing to other player can mine why can not the do P I ?

out of the skills... you have 5 of them... only one of which is not allow with the current system ... Advanced Planetology....

The advanced understanding of planet evolution allowing you to interpret data from scans of planets for resources at much higher resolutions.
Bonus:
The skill further increases the resolution of resource data when scanning a planet to allow for very precise surveying.

This skill cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.

Now I can see with a alpha clown I am allow to P. I. based on what been allowed before because a two week trial account is allow to P. I. . as well. please look at the skills and you will see as well.

I also see that jump clowns will not be allowed for the Alpha CLOWNS for Infomorph Psychology can not be on trial accounts..

now I have some other question?? what do CCP plan to offer the player which been playing for the past 2 years? 4 years 6 and 10 years of returning to enjoy this game. I see your working for NEW PLAYERS... what do you plan for the old to return and log in?

Please tell me the fact of the learning skills which was a pain.. the fact that we waited days of training just to be what new players are today??

explain how we as the old players must accept subclass static since we been supporting and help keeping the game alive?

I understand that looking for new blood?? what of keeping the old blood as well? is the old players money any different? spend as if it not as value? then why should old players allow CCP to cut corner and give a break to new player in which the demand of the old? the system is and has issues which the devs should fix. I was in a battle which a fortize gone up and it a kill mail of 14 million which only 2/3 rd of the players got on the kill mail.

o k why would players in general find some other game.. CCP get new items and do not fix KNOWN issue of old treat the old players which keep the members in the dev section EMPLOYED like scum.. offer new benefits to new players with the hopes that one day the old player would not sign in.
Man you are saved by Chirs Roberts of star citizen for one day they going get out of Aphla and become a game..
xHxHxAOD
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#124 - 2016-09-04 03:02:32 UTC
imo alphas should not be allowed to do pi. pi makes too much isk
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2016-09-04 03:20:05 UTC
Kilo Kodiak wrote:
I have a simple question ///

P I?

Plante interaction as a alfa clone?

if you have like 5 million skill points in P I and it was showing to other player can mine why can not the do P I ?



stop doing anything.
read the dev blog.
there is a list of skills that are available to alpha clones.
thats what they can use.

PI is not on that list.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
#126 - 2016-09-04 06:24:46 UTC
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Elayae wrote:


Yes it does as the perception is free to play at first, most players realize after a while that in order to be competitive effectively you need to pay. Hence the pay to win introduction with alpha clones which is in contrast to the system we have now in which PLEX can be earned to play.

In its current incarnation, there are people in rookie who are actually earning enough for a plex whilst they are in there trial time. So if its possible to do that when time restricted then in an endless time cycle freeplay mode you will have equal if not more of a chance to attain this level of earning ergo making your pay 2 win scenario a mute point.

That is also with t1 kit and racial ships nothing fancy.


Let me explain it in full here:

P2W = Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

According to the definition Eve was already P2W in the first place. As players could buy multiple accounts and have superior advantage in combat. Although it's a bit silly of course to declare this, but the definition stills holds.

However by introducing F2P CCP made it more obvious that the game is P2W now. As a mix of F2P and P2P together is regarded as P2W by definition. Hence all the confusion in the discussion, but the F2P introduction makes it P2W properly for me. Therefore my proposed tiered system makes a lot of sense as it's more clear and fair.
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2016-09-04 07:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daylan Vokan
Elayae wrote:
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Elayae wrote:


Yes it does as the perception is free to play at first, most players realize after a while that in order to be competitive effectively you need to pay. Hence the pay to win introduction with alpha clones which is in contrast to the system we have now in which PLEX can be earned to play.

In its current incarnation, there are people in rookie who are actually earning enough for a plex whilst they are in there trial time. So if its possible to do that when time restricted then in an endless time cycle freeplay mode you will have equal if not more of a chance to attain this level of earning ergo making your pay 2 win scenario a mute point.

That is also with t1 kit and racial ships nothing fancy.


Let me explain it in full here:

P2W = Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

According to the definition Eve was already P2W in the first place. As players could buy multiple accounts and have superior advantage in combat. Although it's a bit silly of course to declare this, but the definition stills holds.

However by introducing F2P CCP made it more obvious that the game is P2W now. As a mix of F2P and P2P together is regarded as P2W by definition. Hence all the confusion in the discussion, but the F2P introduction makes it P2W properly for me. Therefore my proposed tiered system makes a lot of sense as it's more clear and fair.

Pay 2 win is where you have a free 2 play business model then with microtransaction you purchase in game items such as booster packs - building materials - x2 or x3 item speed ups and the old chestnut golden ammo. They are not selling these little miracle pack to make you better than anyone else in eve, You have currently trial mode and full access come november trial becomes Alpha - ( just a better trial a free play mode) Omega - full access, They have not changed the business model of the game its a subscription game as always.

Here CCP are doing what others have done, They have merely opened the game up to everyone by removing any limitation on how long they play before the game publisher ends there free time in the environment. They have also given the free play mode player the chance to interact with more of the game with upping there skill point pool three fold.

All you keep quoting are the click bait headlines of the gaming media and maybe to some extent how CCP actually delivered the news to them in the first place. If you read any of the article published on this further than the headline most go into detail on the limitations of the alpha and how the game is opened to full access with omega.
Edit :
I will add to this though, if after a short time we see become available in the NEX shop .....

Beta clone : bring your neural training upto the same as a omega for XXX
Gamma clone: be able to train into small T2 weaponry for XXX
Delta clone be able to train into small T2 hulls for XXX

Then this is a paid advancement above the alpha clone ( Trial - free play mode ) and an additional payment of the subscription model - Omega and would constitute a pay2 win scenario.
Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
#128 - 2016-09-04 07:38:14 UTC
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Elayae wrote:


Let me explain it in full here:

P2W = Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

According to the definition Eve was already P2W in the first place. As players could buy multiple accounts and have superior advantage in combat. Although it's a bit silly of course to declare this, but the definition stills holds.

However by introducing F2P CCP made it more obvious that the game is P2W now. As a mix of F2P and P2P together is regarded as P2W by definition. Hence all the confusion in the discussion, but the F2P introduction makes it P2W properly for me. Therefore my proposed tiered system makes a lot of sense as it's more clear and fair.

Pay 2 win is where you have a free 2 play business model then with microtransaction you purchase in game items such as booster packs - building materials - x2 or x3 item speed ups and the old chestnut golden ammo. They are not selling these little miracle pack to make you better than anyone else in eve, You have currently trial mode and full access come november trial becomes Alpha - ( just a better trial a free play mode) Omega - full access, They have not changed the business model of the game its a subscription game as always.

Here CCP are doing what others have done, They have merely opened the game up to everyone by removing any limitation on how long they play before the game publisher ends there free time in the environment. They have also given the free play mode player the chance to interact with more of the game with upping there skill point pool three fold.

All you keep quoting are the click bait headlines of the gaming media and maybe to some extent how CCP actually delivered the news to them in the first place. If you read any of the article published on this further than the headline most go into detail on the limitations of the alpha and how the game is opened to full access with omega.
Edit :
I will add to this though, if after a short time we see become available in the NEX shop .....

Beta clone : bring your neural training upto the same as a omega for XXX
Gamma clone: be able to train into small T2 weaponry for XXX
Delta clone be able to train into small T2 hulls for XXX

Then this is a paid advancement above the alpha clone ( Trial - free play mode ) and an additional payment of the subscription model - Omega and would constitute a pay2 win scenario.


I agree completely. Microtransactions are considered small but there is no clear answer on the amount of that. And this is where subscriptions and microtransactions fall into a grey area. I do not see a real difference here, only that microtransactions are done more random. So technically there is no real difference between them only in name but not by definition. A subscription can be regarded as a periodic microtransaction gaining full access to all gear.
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2016-09-04 08:18:18 UTC
Elayae wrote:
I agree completely. Microtransactions are considered small but there is no clear answer on the amount of that. And this is where subscriptions and microtransactions fall into a grey area. I do not see a real difference here, only that microtransactions are done more random. So technically there is no real difference between them only in name but not by definition. A subscription can be regarded as a periodic microtransaction gaining full access to all gear.

Buy 2 play - one off payment and play your game - Expansion still fall under the same category
Pay 2 play - You either have to buy the game or you get the game for free but has a recurring monthly payment
Free 2 play - No cost to base game no recurring monthly payments - Usually has the - in game purchases available

Then you can throw into the mix all the crap like founder's packs or other innocuous drivel where free 2 play publishers try to hook you with one off items rare mounts and special edition junk and you can end up spending more on those than you would a premium well established franchise title Big smile for beta access or play for a week before anyone else.

I've never classed a subscription as a microtransaction. Its upfront your made fully aware of what the product entails then its up to you whether you want to continue or purchase a product of this nature.
Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
#130 - 2016-09-04 10:15:25 UTC
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Elayae wrote:
I agree completely. Microtransactions are considered small but there is no clear answer on the amount of that. And this is where subscriptions and microtransactions fall into a grey area. I do not see a real difference here, only that microtransactions are done more random. So technically there is no real difference between them only in name but not by definition. A subscription can be regarded as a periodic microtransaction gaining full access to all gear.

Buy 2 play - one off payment and play your game - Expansion still fall under the same category
Pay 2 play - You either have to buy the game or you get the game for free but has a recurring monthly payment
Free 2 play - No cost to base game no recurring monthly payments - Usually has the - in game purchases available

Then you can throw into the mix all the crap like founder's packs or other innocuous drivel where free 2 play publishers try to hook you with one off items rare mounts and special edition junk and you can end up spending more on those than you would a premium well established franchise title Big smile for beta access or play for a week before anyone else.

I've never classed a subscription as a microtransaction. Its upfront your made fully aware of what the product entails then its up to you whether you want to continue or purchase a product of this nature.


I agree. Nothing more to add here. Big smile

It's all those different interpretations of different people that start off the confusion, glad this has been cleared up. Gather all the discussion texts and put it in wikipedia already. Big smile
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#131 - 2016-09-04 12:25:58 UTC
Still the issue is that you will have low skilled players in easy to kill ships being farmed by players that will be seen as P2W, that in a game where the majority of possible new players see this game as a haven for player killers, it really is going to be an uphill struggle for you. I just don't know how you are going to get around this issue.

When this is implemented in November I will most probably log on, however I will not be un-docking at all and will just chat with people, well I might undock with a low skilled toon and train that one up, a bit while I can....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2016-09-04 13:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Daylan Vokan
Dracvlad wrote:
Still the issue is that you will have low skilled players in easy to kill ships being farmed by players that will be seen as P2W, that in a game where the majority of possible new players see this game as a haven for player killers, it really is going to be an uphill struggle for you. I just don't know how you are going to get around this issue.

When this is implemented in November I will most probably log on, however I will not be un-docking at all and will just chat with people, well I might undock with a low skilled toon and train that one up, a bit while I can....

Dracvlad wrote:
You would have been better off removing the imbalances and making the base account have two toons usable and trainable at the same time and six characters to chose from, while your free to play game on a single character only with no restrictions and reduced training speed. But I guess that you are too worried about your fall off in cash from that change to subs

I had to read your posts a couple of times for what you actually have written to properly sink in. So above you state that what CCP currently offer it's going to be viewed as some wholesale slaughter fest of new players, Yet your offering as an alternative what would be better is to be able to have six character slots 2 of which are trainable at the same time and be able to be played at the same time and alpha's only limited to slower training ..... hmmmm

So you would like twice as many Omega's in space which equates to twice as much firepower against all these new players you deem as cannon fodder already.

I would lay of the crash, sort of limits brain functions after a while ........
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#133 - 2016-09-04 13:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Still the issue is that you will have low skilled players in easy to kill ships being farmed by players that will be seen as P2W, that in a game where the majority of possible new players see this game as a haven for player killers, it really is going to be an uphill struggle for you. I just don't know how you are going to get around this issue.

When this is implemented in November I will most probably log on, however I will not be un-docking at all and will just chat with people, well I might undock with a low skilled toon and train that one up, a bit while I can....

I had to read your posts a couple of times for what you actually have written to properly sink in. So above you state that what CCP currently offer it's going to be viewed as some wholesale slaughter fest of new players, Yet your offering as an alternative what would be better is to be able to have six character slots 2 of which are trainable at the same time and be able to be played at the same time and alpha's only limited to slower training ..... hmmmm

So you would like twice as many Omega's in space which equates to twice as much firepower against all these new players you deem as cannon fodder already.

I would lay of the crash, sort of limits brain functions after a while ........


I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that.

Lets try to make it easier for you however, Eve has a reputation of being a farming game for player killers, with a player base that is very focused on that gameplay, over time a lot of casual less PvP focused players have moved on and left the game and many of them are quite vocal about the issue with the game. While this will appear to many as just an adjustment of the current trial period, it is much more than that, what it does is enable a possibly large number of easy to farm players to start playing Eve, it is how they perceive this disparity between their F2P clones and those that pay which will be critical to the success or not of this attempt by CCP.

You only have to see the number of low skilled people getting ganked in T1 haulers to undestand what will go on, also in any PvP situation those Alpha clones will be very out matched by the Omega clones and after a while they will start to think hold on what is this, especially if it took them some time to make and buy the stuff they lose so easily.

Now my view is that the game is really one where player killers farm others, I rather liked testing myself in this environment, but its not for everyone as the numbers of people leaving the game have shown. CCP need new players to keep a certain level of activity and those new players will in my opinion have a significant level of turn over, I wonder just what level of people they expect to get as paying customers from this effort. Without any doubt for me what has happened is that Eve is losing people who want to play casual, that is the issue and this change will do nothing to help that..

But anyone who plays this as F2P will be a masochist and they will be telling lots of people that this game is P2W, regardless of the fact that the move by CCP is really just adjusting the trial period approach.

For me a better approach would be to reduce the cost of subscription and make it so that a player can run two accounts with 6 characters for the same price of one account for a main account, also they really need to get a handle on plex pricing.

My sub runs out on my second account tomorrow, this account October 5th, I made that decision before this change and it has nothing to do with my decision to stop playing, I can see what CCP want to do, but it smacks of desperation and I think CCP has to bite the bullet and understand that they have lost casual players for good.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2016-09-04 14:13:58 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Still the issue is that you will have low skilled players in easy to kill ships being farmed by players that will be seen as P2W, that in a game where the majority of possible new players see this game as a haven for player killers, it really is going to be an uphill struggle for you. I just don't know how you are going to get around this issue.

When this is implemented in November I will most probably log on, however I will not be un-docking at all and will just chat with people, well I might undock with a low skilled toon and train that one up, a bit while I can....

I had to read your posts a couple of times for what you actually have written to properly sink in. So above you state that what CCP currently offer it's going to be viewed as some wholesale slaughter fest of new players, Yet your offering as an alternative what would be better is to be able to have six character slots 2 of which are trainable at the same time and be able to be played at the same time and alpha's only limited to slower training ..... hmmmm

So you would like twice as many Omega's in space which equates to twice as much firepower against all these new players you deem as cannon fodder already.

I would lay of the crash, sort of limits brain functions after a while ........


I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that.

Lets try to make it easier for you however, Eve has a reputation of being a farming game for player killers, with a player base that is very focused on that gameplay, over time a lot of casual less PvP focused players have moved on and left the game and many of them are quite vocal about the issue with the game. While this will appear to many as just an adjustment of the current trial period, it is much more than that, what it does is enable a possibly large number of easy to farm players to start playing Eve, it is how they perceive this disparity between their F2P clones and those that pay which will be critical to the success or not of this attempt by CCP.

You only have to see the number of low skilled people getting ganked in T1 haulers to undestand what will go on, also in any PvP situation those Alpha clones will be very out matched by the Omega clones and after a while they will start to think hold on what is this, especially if it took them some time to make and buy the stuff they lose so easily.

Now my view is that the game is really one where player killers farm others, I rather liked testing myself in this environment, but its not for everyone as the numbers of people leaving the game have shown. CCP need new players to keep a certain level of activity and those new players will in my opinion have a significant level of turn over, I wonder just what level of people they expect to get as paying customers from this effort. Without any doubt for me what has happened is that Eve is losing people who want to play casual, that is the issue and this change will do nothing to help that..

But anyone who plays this as F2P will be a masochist and they will be telling lots of people that this game is P2W, regardless of the fact that the move by CCP is really just adjusting the trial period approach.

For me a better approach would be to reduce the cost of subscription and make it so that a player can run two accounts with 6 characters for the same price of one account for a main account, also they really need to get a handle on plex pricing.

My sub runs out on my second account tomorrow, this account October 5th, I made that decision before this change and it has nothing to do with my decision to stop playing, I can see what CCP want to do, but it smacks of desperation and I think CCP has to bite the bullet and understand that they have lost casual players for good.

Player killers I love the dramatics of it, Most call it good old fashioned PvP you know the thing a sandbox game is solely base around, Whether they sub or not they will all be viewed as a valued community member as theyre still contributing to the complete experience of EvE.

Whilst you exist in EvE your a target, you die, you learn from your mistakes - You make friends, you team up - You get revenge or you die trying. In all this you expend resources which someone has harvested, manufactured and built, you get back up and start again.

The pay 2 win tag you use I've explained a page or 2 back and im not interested in doing so again, Losers quit - knock backs just make you stronger and more determined to succeed, Hopefully with an unlimited freeplay mode people will have a stronger backbone than the whiners we have here at the moment.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#135 - 2016-09-04 14:18:52 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Still the issue is that you will have low skilled players in easy to kill ships being farmed by players that will be seen as P2W, that in a game where the majority of possible new players see this game as a haven for player killers, it really is going to be an uphill struggle for you. I just don't know how you are going to get around this issue.

When this is implemented in November I will most probably log on, however I will not be un-docking at all and will just chat with people, well I might undock with a low skilled toon and train that one up, a bit while I can....

I had to read your posts a couple of times for what you actually have written to properly sink in. So above you state that what CCP currently offer it's going to be viewed as some wholesale slaughter fest of new players, Yet your offering as an alternative what would be better is to be able to have six character slots 2 of which are trainable at the same time and be able to be played at the same time and alpha's only limited to slower training ..... hmmmm

So you would like twice as many Omega's in space which equates to twice as much firepower against all these new players you deem as cannon fodder already.

I would lay of the crash, sort of limits brain functions after a while ........


I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that.

Lets try to make it easier for you however, Eve has a reputation of being a farming game for player killers, with a player base that is very focused on that gameplay, over time a lot of casual less PvP focused players have moved on and left the game and many of them are quite vocal about the issue with the game. While this will appear to many as just an adjustment of the current trial period, it is much more than that, what it does is enable a possibly large number of easy to farm players to start playing Eve, it is how they perceive this disparity between their F2P clones and those that pay which will be critical to the success or not of this attempt by CCP.

You only have to see the number of low skilled people getting ganked in T1 haulers to undestand what will go on, also in any PvP situation those Alpha clones will be very out matched by the Omega clones and after a while they will start to think hold on what is this, especially if it took them some time to make and buy the stuff they lose so easily.

Now my view is that the game is really one where player killers farm others, I rather liked testing myself in this environment, but its not for everyone as the numbers of people leaving the game have shown. CCP need new players to keep a certain level of activity and those new players will in my opinion have a significant level of turn over, I wonder just what level of people they expect to get as paying customers from this effort. Without any doubt for me what has happened is that Eve is losing people who want to play casual, that is the issue and this change will do nothing to help that..

But anyone who plays this as F2P will be a masochist and they will be telling lots of people that this game is P2W, regardless of the fact that the move by CCP is really just adjusting the trial period approach.

For me a better approach would be to reduce the cost of subscription and make it so that a player can run two accounts with 6 characters for the same price of one account for a main account, also they really need to get a handle on plex pricing.

My sub runs out on my second account tomorrow, this account October 5th, I made that decision before this change and it has nothing to do with my decision to stop playing, I can see what CCP want to do, but it smacks of desperation and I think CCP has to bite the bullet and understand that they have lost casual players for good.


You could just as easily make the same objection to any new player.

Maybe it has escaped your attention, but new players are seen as an exceedingly valuable resource these days - as I predicted a few years ago. There are multiple well-organised, well funded entities competing to recruit those newbros and jump start them into being competent and effective players. And those are just the ones who advertise the loudest.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Erert Mishi
Deluge Counstruction
#136 - 2016-09-04 14:25:50 UTC
My version one of many.

CCP has an opportunity to sell and earn on clones.
My option as an example, the specified statuses of clones and number can be changed and thought out indefinitely:

Example:
Alpha clone: SP 3 000 000 max, Free to Play (trial account), can't play several windows.

Omega clone: the normal character without bonuses. Single payment, by means of Money or Plex.
"IMPORTANT" All players at whom the PAID subscription has ended have the status of Omega clone. Learning skills is frozen.
Omega clone: Paid or it is prolonged through Plex, can learn skills.

Example:
Delta clone: a bonus on damage of 50% (Paid or 2 Plex 30 day)
Teta clone: a bonus on all types of repair of armor of 50% and a rating of shields (2 Plex 30day)
Fieta clone: a bonus on mining of 75% (2 Plex 30 day)
Zeta clone: a bonus on damage of 100% (3 Plex 30 day)
Exta clone: a bonus on all types of repair of armor of 100% and a rating of shields (3 Plex 30day)
Clones it is possible to think up much, the main thing that they were useful, then they will be bought by all.
Giga clone: Gives 20 000 000 SP and a bonus on application of skill injector of 50%, payment by means of Money or 5 Plex at once.
For those players who are ready to pay at once and more.

This example I wanted to show the idea, how to sell Clone Status for money.
I will personally get a clone with busty for gas production :)
Thank you
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#137 - 2016-09-04 14:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Player killers I love the dramatics of it, Most call it good old fashioned PvP you know the thing a sandbox game is solely base around, Whether they sub or not they will all be viewed as a valued community member as theyre still contributing to the complete experience of EvE.

Whilst you exist in EvE your a target, you die, you learn from your mistakes - You make friends, you team up - You get revenge or you die trying. In all this you expend resources which someone has harvested, manufactured and built, you get back up and start again.

The pay 2 win tag you use I've explained a page or 2 back and im not interested in doing so again, Losers quit - knock backs just make you stronger and more determined to succeed, Hopefully with an unlimited freeplay mode people will have a stronger backbone than the whiners we have here at the moment.


Player Killer is what the people I met who were ex-Eve players define most of the Eve player base, because they focus on getting at the player more than anything else.

Sandbox game = solely a PVP game, ShockedRoll Seriously did you really just say that... There is a lot more than just PvP in Eve, which is why it was such a great game.

You are trying to lecture someone about how to play this game who knows how to play this game, but like so many you come out with rubbish like "You get revenge!" Some players yes, but there are many players that the only revenge you can get is worthless. Anyway I am ending my time with this game with very high SP accounts, 60bn worth of stuff and a very good killboard, not that the killboard means much to me of course, just that I killed a lot more than I was killed and a fair amount of that was done in small gangs or with me dual boxing. But culling a load of easy kill alpha clones is not worth much to me, where is the challenge in that... Though many of the Eve player base will enjoy those debased kills much as like they do now when ganking or BLOP's dropping etc. ad nauseam...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#138 - 2016-09-04 14:33:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Still the issue is that you will have low skilled players in easy to kill ships being farmed by players that will be seen as P2W, that in a game where the majority of possible new players see this game as a haven for player killers, it really is going to be an uphill struggle for you. I just don't know how you are going to get around this issue.

When this is implemented in November I will most probably log on, however I will not be un-docking at all and will just chat with people, well I might undock with a low skilled toon and train that one up, a bit while I can....

I had to read your posts a couple of times for what you actually have written to properly sink in. So above you state that what CCP currently offer it's going to be viewed as some wholesale slaughter fest of new players, Yet your offering as an alternative what would be better is to be able to have six character slots 2 of which are trainable at the same time and be able to be played at the same time and alpha's only limited to slower training ..... hmmmm

So you would like twice as many Omega's in space which equates to twice as much firepower against all these new players you deem as cannon fodder already.

I would lay of the crash, sort of limits brain functions after a while ........


I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that.

Lets try to make it easier for you however, Eve has a reputation of being a farming game for player killers, with a player base that is very focused on that gameplay, over time a lot of casual less PvP focused players have moved on and left the game and many of them are quite vocal about the issue with the game. While this will appear to many as just an adjustment of the current trial period, it is much more than that, what it does is enable a possibly large number of easy to farm players to start playing Eve, it is how they perceive this disparity between their F2P clones and those that pay which will be critical to the success or not of this attempt by CCP.

You only have to see the number of low skilled people getting ganked in T1 haulers to undestand what will go on, also in any PvP situation those Alpha clones will be very out matched by the Omega clones and after a while they will start to think hold on what is this, especially if it took them some time to make and buy the stuff they lose so easily.

Now my view is that the game is really one where player killers farm others, I rather liked testing myself in this environment, but its not for everyone as the numbers of people leaving the game have shown. CCP need new players to keep a certain level of activity and those new players will in my opinion have a significant level of turn over, I wonder just what level of people they expect to get as paying customers from this effort. Without any doubt for me what has happened is that Eve is losing people who want to play casual, that is the issue and this change will do nothing to help that..

But anyone who plays this as F2P will be a masochist and they will be telling lots of people that this game is P2W, regardless of the fact that the move by CCP is really just adjusting the trial period approach.

For me a better approach would be to reduce the cost of subscription and make it so that a player can run two accounts with 6 characters for the same price of one account for a main account, also they really need to get a handle on plex pricing.

My sub runs out on my second account tomorrow, this account October 5th, I made that decision before this change and it has nothing to do with my decision to stop playing, I can see what CCP want to do, but it smacks of desperation and I think CCP has to bite the bullet and understand that they have lost casual players for good.


You could just as easily make the same objection to any new player.

Maybe it has escaped your attention, but new players are seen as an exceedingly valuable resource these days - as I predicted a few years ago. There are multiple well-organised, well funded entities competing to recruit those newbros and jump start them into being competent and effective players. And those are just the ones who advertise the loudest.


And good luck to you in doing that, I always found the 5m skill point minimum to get into null alliances a bit naff when I first started playing. The change in sov was a major driver to that change.

I have made that objection in terms of new players, I would give every new player the ability to fly a DST from the word go, it sets my teeth on edge to see so many get ganked in T1 haulers with all their assets, yes it is their own stupidity and a hard lesson, but ...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2016-09-04 14:37:39 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Player killers I love the dramatics of it, Most call it good old fashioned PvP you know the thing a sandbox game is solely base around, Whether they sub or not they will all be viewed as a valued community member as theyre still contributing to the complete experience of EvE.

Whilst you exist in EvE your a target, you die, you learn from your mistakes - You make friends, you team up - You get revenge or you die trying. In all this you expend resources which someone has harvested, manufactured and built, you get back up and start again.

The pay 2 win tag you use I've explained a page or 2 back and im not interested in doing so again, Losers quit - knock backs just make you stronger and more determined to succeed, Hopefully with an unlimited freeplay mode people will have a stronger backbone than the whiners we have here at the moment.


Player Killer is what the people I met who were exp-Eve players define most of the Eve player base, because they focus on getting at the player more than anything else.

Sandbox game = solely a PVP game, ShockedRoll Seriously did you really just say that... There is a lot more than just PvP in Eve, which is why it was such a great game.

You are trying to lecture someone about how to play this game who knows how to play this game, but like so many you come out with rubbish like "You get revenge!" Some players yes, but there are many players that the only revenge you can get is worthless. Anyway I am ending my time with this game with very high SP accounts, 60bn worth of stuff and a very good killboard, not that the killboard means much to me of course, just that I killed a lot more than I was killed and a fair amount of that was done in small gangs or with me dual boxing. But culling a load of easy kill alpha clones is not worth much to me, where is the challenge in that... Though many of the Eve player base will enjoy those debased kills much as like they do now when ganking or BLOP's dropping etc. ad nauseam...

I actually just checked out your killboard because the expression of player killers and your sig i was wondering if you'd had your ass handed to you on a plate a few times and what do i find, YOU have flown with CODE. Probably the worst ganking outfit in eve so with your " Multiple training and playing from a single account" and your flight buddies, Your one of the worst offenders of ganking the helpless in this game.

Go away with your bleating stories of hardship........
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2016-09-04 14:42:21 UTC
Erert Mishi wrote:
My version one of many.

CCP has an opportunity to sell and earn on clones.
My option as an example, the specified statuses of clones and number can be changed and thought out indefinitely:

Example:
Alpha clone: SP 3 000 000 max, Free to Play (trial account), can't play several windows.

Omega clone: the normal character without bonuses. Single payment, by means of Money or Plex.
"IMPORTANT" All players at whom the PAID subscription has ended have the status of Omega clone. Learning skills is frozen.
Omega clone: Paid or it is prolonged through Plex, can learn skills.

Example:
Delta clone: a bonus on damage of 50% (Paid or 2 Plex 30 day)
Teta clone: a bonus on all types of repair of armor of 50% and a rating of shields (2 Plex 30day)
Fieta clone: a bonus on mining of 75% (2 Plex 30 day)
Zeta clone: a bonus on damage of 100% (3 Plex 30 day)
Exta clone: a bonus on all types of repair of armor of 100% and a rating of shields (3 Plex 30day)
Clones it is possible to think up much, the main thing that they were useful, then they will be bought by all.
Giga clone: Gives 20 000 000 SP and a bonus on application of skill injector of 50%, payment by means of Money or 5 Plex at once.
For those players who are ready to pay at once and more.

This example I wanted to show the idea, how to sell Clone Status for money.
I will personally get a clone with busty for gas production :)
Thank you

What you are offering is nothing more than a pay 2 win system, Something that you can help yourself in game by means of opening your wallet in real life. Where this maybe fine to a precentage of the player base your always going to alienate the larger section and certainly something i find offensive.