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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Kahless Monstrosity
Embark
Sedition.
#141 - 2016-08-31 15:25:19 UTC
I think a couple of no brainers should be limiting to one alpha account online, like trials and lock safety to green or yellow to prevent high sec ganking abuse.
StuRyan
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#142 - 2016-08-31 15:25:45 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Well ->

more t1 fit Griffin blobs?
more t1 fit alt logi accounts and ewar?
more scammers and spammers

This is stupid.

This feels like a complete screw over to loyal players who paid their dues.

The only advantage I see here is people will use them as throw away alts to satisfy their chest beating, therefore, Alpha clones should be bare minimal and should be locked into NPC corps and have access to certain high sec systems only. They should also not be able to transfer isk, items and anything related to "gaining an edge" over competition.

Please CCP understand the way people game these days and make decisions based on true science and not just because it is a "good idea". This is going to massively impact customer engagement and loyalty because the fear of losing something is so powerful to engagement by doing this you actually do the opposite of trying to create loyal customers, you actually lose engaged people.

Always remember this, when something is free, there is no value.



Bang on tbh....
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2016-08-31 15:26:05 UTC
Tony Rocca wrote:
Hey guys,

Couple big questions:

Major alliances control access to their (external) services via the subscription status of accounts, as reflected on the XML or CREST APIs.


  1. How will these APIs reflect the Alpha/Omega state of accounts?
  2. When I allow my subscription to lapse, what happens to assets or skills I trained while I was an Omega account that Alpha accounts cannot use? e.g. I subbed for a month, trained up Cyno 5, then stopped paying - regressing to Alpha. Can I still light a cyno, since that skill is technically trained?


Dude, read the blog. Any skills that go beyond the Alpha list will be blocked and any modules that require those skills will go offline. So no, you can't light a cyno on a free account (thank god).

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Cariq
EVE University
Ivy League
#144 - 2016-08-31 15:27:08 UTC
Nice, I think this could work well. More players help EVE, and this clone system sounds like it won't cheapen the experience too much. Good idea! I look forward to seeing how it works in practice. I think multi-boxing will indeed need to be looked at to prevent abuse.
Valterra Craven
#145 - 2016-08-31 15:28:05 UTC
Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you?
Egsise
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2016-08-31 15:28:23 UTC
Many that start Eve from trial or buddy invite end up mining to pay their plex and 90% of those who try Eve quit in a few months because Eve is boring as watching asteroid mining.

Alpha clone players face the same problem, it just makes new players very frustrated and they will still face the fact that they must pay to play.

It's like a neverending trial.

When new players want to make isk and fly the good ships without paying the sub and they ragequit if they can't what next, buff the free account skills?
Anthar Thebess
#147 - 2016-08-31 15:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Possible abuses;
- free mission pullers / lvl 4 burner farmers you don't need faction fitted frigate to kill a burner 5 T1 frigates will also manage to do it
- FW farming, is also T1 frigates and stabs
- eyes/scouting/tackling , nothing like 50 accounts each 3 characters that are logged in some region, login and look to something for tackle in specific system
- spam scamming - it is part of eve, but can this people can be locked out from local chat in major trade hubs?
- gate camp dps/miners - example you can assign vexor drones to a single tackler on a gate - eve is about alt game play
- citadel guners
- multiple character abuse, 3x5mil sp characters - maybe only first character in account can be only used in alpha state.
- account creation/skill training/character trading
1.make account
2.train 1 character to 5mil sp
3.train 2nd character to 5mil sp
4.train 3rd character to 5mil sp
5.start paying/using account or sell 3x5mil skill starter characters
- free sp farming (example, train alt to 7mil sp - extract 2mil of your basic skills - go alfa, train missing basic skills)
- free trading - create char that have max orders, create maximum number of buy/sell orders, go alfa and adjust them till you decide that it is time to create new ones.
- Implants, subscribe for 1 month, and put in your clones best implants, and use the bonuses after they expire. Full Slave/crystal or any similar set is a game changer.


Possible improvements
- multi race frigate skills, maybe pirate versions will be used more, simply lock it at lvl 4
- single home station - you will be podded always to you higsec school station.
- increasing the extraction threshold to 10 milion SP - without this people will just do thousands of new extraction farm characters - as they simply will be for free


For sake of EVE and what it is - don't limit PVP on this accounts in any way.


to be continued
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#148 - 2016-08-31 15:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
I think you need to restrict red flags to omega. That way lowsec PvP is fine and fun highsec activities (killing MTUs, baiting mission runners) are fine without enabling a flood of gankers.

Either that or put a really tight limit on number of logged in accounts.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Firnas
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2016-08-31 15:29:36 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Can people actually read the devblog and watch the video before complaining?

While the CSM only saw this on Monday, Most had been hammered out already.


Stuff it buddy. I had my fill of CSM when you guys pushed to get watch list status destroyed and murdered the true merc profession.

This is going to be zerg central.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2016-08-31 15:29:50 UTC
Well, it's been a good run. I'll take my mother's advice and look on the bright side - at least when this goes live, I will be able to log in for free to biomass all my toons.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2016-08-31 15:30:06 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you?

Those are the ones you want, actually. They lurk reddit the hardest and hype is good.
Alhira Katserna
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2016-08-31 15:30:24 UTC
Also after giving it another thought you may want to open up all frigates and destroyers to alphas.

In hindsight of lowsec and nullsec life (and especially as someone close to PH) it is terrible if you want to make newbro destroyer roams and are limited by what ship each one can fly. A trial now can train within a day or less into a destroyer and thus can get into a cormorant fleet or talwar fleet within a day. I already imagine the disappointment on boith side, the fc and the newbro, if you tell them they can not come with them on a destroyer fleet as they choose the wrong race at the beginning.

I think we all get what you intend to do here. You want to get people hooked with the game. And for many newbros having an impact in newbros fleets this is a great opportunity that you are blocking.
Solecist Project
#153 - 2016-08-31 15:31:04 UTC
On behalf of everyone else who wants to know...

Will Alphas be able to post outside of NCQA?

Thank you.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kurosaki Rukia
Energy
#154 - 2016-08-31 15:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kurosaki Rukia
I think this is a great thing overall. And I welcome the change.

It will be great to see new and returning players being able to enjoy fleets and faction warfare who otherwise might not have been able to afford to play. And since there is no time limit, it gives people more time to explore eve and hopefully fall in love with it. Since the skillset is perfect for players to enjoy faction warfare among other things I think it will be good for lowsec.

The planned skill limits are perfect, and from what I can see will prevent abuse. Especially the limitation on cloaking, cynoing etc. I definitely think that Alphas should have their safeties locked in highsec, but that's just me.

I do think that those who already pay their subscriptions should be able to use one alpha simultaniously with their existing paid accounts. This doesn't help me reduce the number of subscriptions I need. Nor do I expect it to. I have three subscriptions and I will always need those three subscriptions (1 main, 1 capital pilot, & 1 cloaky scout/cyno pilot). And I am glad that the proposed skills will not change that, because including such skills in an alpha would encourage lots of abuse. But If I'm already a paying subscriber, having to log off all my paid subscriptions just to do something on an alpha would be a major pain and wouldn't make me any happier about being a paying customer, that's for damn sure.
Crow White
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2016-08-31 15:32:04 UTC
Pls, decide to restrict multiboxing with alfa clones, because if u will not do this, there will be 255 man fleets of suicide toraxes in t1 fit. Guys are planning already ^^
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#156 - 2016-08-31 15:33:21 UTC
Looks like its time for Doc to follow Tippia and Mr. Garibaldi beyond the Rim. 2016 has been a helluva year for losing people, making bad decisions, and unintended consequences. The EA rot has become terminal.

Especially comical are the following:

CCP wrote:

We have not decided...
We don’t think clone states will have much impact...
We don’t expect a significant increase in this kind of activity..
We’ve deliberately tried to limit this behavior..


Doc's personal favorite:
CCP wrote:

We are creating and implementing concrete plans to make sure we can provide the same level of support for all of our players

CCP, you can barely provide acceptable levels of customer support now. The kinds of players you are trying to attract won't put up with what you consider adequate, and they won't accept your usual platitudes.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Lasisha Mishi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#157 - 2016-08-31 15:33:22 UTC
looking at it

it looks like a more limited trial, but without the time limit

they can't train battlecruiser like they could in the trial. but are limited to frigates, destroyers, and cruisers


what i'm concerned about is tech 1 or tech 2.
if they limited to tech 1, fair enough.

if they allowed tech 2......oh god the stealth bomber spam plz no nononononoononono.




overall its more appealing to myself personally (if i was just joining the game now) because no time limit so i can hop on whenever in a venture or rifter. or kestrel

and no time limit means they have all the time they need to earn enough isk to buy plex.




but considering i'm in love with stealth bombers, confessors, Hurricanes, and rokhs. i'm going to continue to subscribe. cause i can't play without my hurricane
Shinzann
Beast Cat Industries
#158 - 2016-08-31 15:34:58 UTC
Vic Vorlon wrote:
I predict this will cause barely a ruffled feather, with perhaps one or two minor questions.

Or, y'know, a threadnought that blocks out the sun.

The initial response by a lot of people is that CCP has to prevent swarms of alpha clone being controlled by a single player being used to strip mine belts, clear anoms etc. I agree with that; don't let this unbalance the game by letting people take advantage of it.


I concur.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#159 - 2016-08-31 15:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Valterra Craven wrote:
Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you?


It's not that, it's that CCP does understand that (as nonsensical it is to me and others), that whole "50 cents per day for 23.5 hours of game time" thing is a psycological barrier to some people.

The idea is to let those people have some bit of EVE for 'free' and then depend on other psycological pressures to get them to go beyond that ("I got blown up because I can't use tech2, I'm going to sub and fit tech2 stuff and win!!!").

So far so good, i don't really have a problem with that though I think it's naive thinking. The Sub isn't a big barrier, lack of thempark style pve and EVE non-consensual pvp natures are WAY bigger barriers to most players, and if CCP touches those they will be admitting that the EVE experiment is a failure.

But, unless CCp rethinks some things about this 'feature', they are going to run smack dab into a version of "Malcanis' law" where old players are going to use the feature to improve their experience while new players end up quitting anyways, just like it happened every other time someone at CCP uttered the words "this will help new players".
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#160 - 2016-08-31 15:36:20 UTC
And there I was in another thread suggesting that the way it was going all that would be left for the HTFU types to shoot was other HTFU types, where each of them would be waiting for each other to do something in game to drop on them which of course they would not do... Would be hilarious to not watch...

Well you are at least giving them something to shoot, I just wonder if their ego's will still be massaged shooting such easy to kill characters, my bet is yes. Well a great way to give them the thrill of easy kills. Shocked

Why don't you go the entire hog CCP and give them free ships and stuff to be shot in to keep enough debased cannon fodder in play for the poor misunderstood HTFU players... Roll

Actually I am a bit amazed at this move to be honest...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp