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So, Barge Info?
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#321 - 2016-08-21 10:03:06 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Ganking makes up the majority of losses in hisec, ...

Where's the data for that conclusion?


Ganking makes up the majority of mining ship losses in hisec and is the key factor in assessing game balance for CCP.

Simple statement of truth!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2016-08-21 10:07:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


We are talking about mining and not incursion runners, the pace is completely different. It is disingenuous to do so.


The average incursion marauder has around 80-90k EHP, the same as the skiff I have proposed. So yea, if their billion isk ships are able to protect themselves in fleets then so can miners.

So the EHP of a marauder is not enough? Once again you show you have no understanding of balance.

Hey it's news to me that Incursion runners sit for hours in one spot and that they are flying mostly alone. I really thought that a incursion fleet!!!! has some logis etc. to bump. And if I'm not totally wrong incursion runners make a little more Isk/hour then miners.

Sorry but you are comparing ships that do totally different thing in a totally different way. An Incursion fleet will make short work with some would be gankers.
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#323 - 2016-08-21 11:00:46 UTC
a quick look at kill boards and from past 72 hours, i see the following as of down time on 21 august

196 exhumers killed in pvp

32.7% = Hulk
37.7% = Mackinaw
29.6% = Skiff

i dont see any problems with these numbers
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#324 - 2016-08-21 11:07:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gunrunner1775
also in reguards to what baltec was saying about changeing the fittin

only 1 thing realy needs to be done

all the barges should have
2 High slot
4 Medium slot
3 Low slot

all the exhumers should have
2 high slot
5 medium slot
3 low slot

do not change any of the cpu pg or any of the other stats, just simple slot lay out, thats it
ive run various spread sheets showing the numbers

this would allow all the ships to fit for tank (decent tank) OR yield, but they wont have the cpu/pg for both

they can fit shield hardeners / extenders / damage control for TANK ...... OR ..... they can fit mining laser upgrades for YIELD
they would still retain their basic role concept....
hulk = master of yield / large scale fleet mining,
makinaw = master of solo miner
skiff = master of the dangerous space miner

edit: this is along with the changes to strip miners and other stuff they did on test that i have seen
Viktor Amarr
#325 - 2016-08-21 11:09:20 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
a quick look at kill boards and from past 72 hours, i see the following as of down time on 21 august

196 exhumers killed in pvp

32.7% = Hulk
37.7% = Mackinaw
29.6% = Skiff

i dont see any problems with these numbers



The really important numbers are about ganks in high sec


55% Hulk
33% Mackinaw
11% Skiff (one moron had a 1.1 bil shield fit and got ganked by a bazillion catas)


If not for the idiot with the clown fit Skiff he'd never been ganked in the first place and skiff would have been 0%.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#326 - 2016-08-21 11:16:38 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Ganking makes up the majority of losses in hisec, ...

Where's the data for that conclusion?


Ganking makes up the majority of mining ship losses in hisec and is the key factor in assessing game balance for CCP.

Simple statement of truth!

If it's mining ship losses, then that probably makes sense.

At least that's more restricted than the original statement, which if true, would be good to see the data.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#327 - 2016-08-21 11:39:37 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
a quick look at kill boards and from past 72 hours, i see the following as of down time on 21 august

196 exhumers killed in pvp

32.7% = Hulk
37.7% = Mackinaw
29.6% = Skiff

i dont see any problems with these numbers



The really important numbers are about ganks in high sec


55% Hulk
33% Mackinaw
11% Skiff (one moron had a 1.1 bil shield fit and got ganked by a bazillion catas)


If not for the idiot with the clown fit Skiff he'd never been ganked in the first place and skiff would have been 0%.



while a part of me would like to agree with you, as someone stated earlier, can not ballance the game off just high sec or just null sec.. have to look at all of it.... if the numbers are fairly ballanced across the board.. then i dont see a problem
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#328 - 2016-08-21 11:54:02 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
If not for the idiot with the clown fit Skiff he'd never been ganked in the first place and skiff would have been 0%.
So just following along with your math...only 9 mining ships got ganked in high-sec *total* in the past 72 hours?

This seems unlikely...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#329 - 2016-08-21 12:00:36 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


We are talking about mining and not incursion runners, the pace is completely different. It is disingenuous to do so.


The average incursion marauder has around 80-90k EHP, the same as the skiff I have proposed. So yea, if their billion isk ships are able to protect themselves in fleets then so can miners.

So the EHP of a marauder is not enough? Once again you show you have no understanding of balance.

Hey it's news to me that Incursion runners sit for hours in one spot and that they are flying mostly alone. I really thought that a incursion fleet!!!! has some logis etc. to bump. And if I'm not totally wrong incursion runners make a little more Isk/hour then miners.

Sorry but you are comparing ships that do totally different thing in a totally different way. An Incursion fleet will make short work with some would be gankers.


And under my plan the mining fleet would logi too.
Viktor Amarr
#330 - 2016-08-21 12:02:42 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:
If not for the idiot with the clown fit Skiff he'd never been ganked in the first place and skiff would have been 0%.
So just following along with your math...only 9 mining ships got ganked in high-sec *total* in the past 72 hours?

This seems unlikely...


Eek, I did it for one day. As in calender day :P

Still, the percentages wouldn't be very different.
Solecist Project
#331 - 2016-08-21 12:04:34 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:
If not for the idiot with the clown fit Skiff he'd never been ganked in the first place and skiff would have been 0%.
So just following along with your math...only 9 mining ships got ganked in high-sec *total* in the past 72 hours?

This seems unlikely...

Does anyone actually check for this stuff?
We all take it for granted so much, we might have heen fooling ourselves all the time...

omg, what a thought!! Now i gotta check! LOL

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#332 - 2016-08-21 12:05:10 UTC
high sec looks like in past 72 hours

29 hulks,
51 makinaws
9 skfifs
Solecist Project
#333 - 2016-08-21 12:23:24 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
high sec looks like in past 72 hours

29 hulks,
51 makinaws
9 skfifs

Skfifs. Haha I really like that! :D

I went to zkill. I will scrape the site for minerkills in highsec.
I assume that the vast majority of kills are being reported on the killboard...

that'll be fun! ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#334 - 2016-08-21 12:48:17 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Ganking makes up the majority of losses in hisec, ...

Where's the data for that conclusion?


Ganking makes up the majority of mining ship losses in hisec and is the key factor in assessing game balance for CCP.

Simple statement of truth!

If it's mining ship losses, then that probably makes sense.

At least that's more restricted than the original statement, which if true, would be good to see the data.


Well that was what I said in a discussion about mining barges and exhumers Roll Stop trying to make points like this its a bit silly.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#335 - 2016-08-21 12:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
baltec1 wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


We are talking about mining and not incursion runners, the pace is completely different. It is disingenuous to do so.


The average incursion marauder has around 80-90k EHP, the same as the skiff I have proposed. So yea, if their billion isk ships are able to protect themselves in fleets then so can miners.

So the EHP of a marauder is not enough? Once again you show you have no understanding of balance.

Hey it's news to me that Incursion runners sit for hours in one spot and that they are flying mostly alone. I really thought that a incursion fleet!!!! has some logis etc. to bump. And if I'm not totally wrong incursion runners make a little more Isk/hour then miners.

Sorry but you are comparing ships that do totally different thing in a totally different way. An Incursion fleet will make short work with some would be gankers.


And under my plan the mining fleet would logi too.


But in hisec what does that cover ice miners only, get away with you...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#336 - 2016-08-21 12:52:49 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
high sec looks like in past 72 hours

29 hulks,
51 makinaws
9 skfifs

People should probably not leave themselves so vulnerable when they are at war.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#337 - 2016-08-21 16:02:44 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Ganking makes up the majority of losses in hisec, ...

Where's the data for that conclusion?


Ganking makes up the majority of mining ship losses in hisec and is the key factor in assessing game balance for CCP.

Simple statement of truth!


Why should they be balanced (poorly) around highsec ganking when it makes up a tiny fraction of barges killed?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#338 - 2016-08-21 16:12:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Ganking makes up the majority of losses in hisec, ...

Where's the data for that conclusion?


Ganking makes up the majority of mining ship losses in hisec and is the key factor in assessing game balance for CCP.

Simple statement of truth!


Why should they be balanced (poorly) around highsec ganking when it makes up a tiny fraction of barges killed?


CCP can make the ships also work for hisec, the Skiff and Procurer as they are now are perfectly balanced in terms of giving tank options against hisec gankers, with those ships you have to make a special effort and their yield is less. So what you are suggesting is that the mining ships are balanced ignoring hisec, about par for the course that...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#339 - 2016-08-21 16:21:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Why should they be balanced (poorly) around highsec ganking when it makes up a tiny fraction of barges killed?
You (and a few others) keep saying this...

And yet CODE. keeps bragging that they are consistently in the top 4-7 alliances for *total kills* in all of EVE. Even including all combat ship kills and all of the large 0.0 alliances with their famous fleet battles...


So just to be clear: Are you saying that only a tiny fraction of the ships CODE. kills are mining ships?

Or are you saying that the #1 most used ships in all of those 0.0 fleet battles are mining ships?

One or the other must *clearly* be true...or is it both?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#340 - 2016-08-21 16:31:53 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
So just to be clear: Are you saying that only a tiny fraction of the ships CODE. kills are mining ships?


Not a tiny fraction but only 28% according to KBz and that's by ship type.

CODE Stats


If you do by ISK value then it's pretty obvious that it's transports that pay the bills....

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."