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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

First post First post First post
Author
Albert Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#661 - 2016-04-05 23:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Albert Madullier
Is there any word on getting the proper 21:9 fov back for the new camera that was removed in the March release?
Xiantra
#662 - 2016-04-11 05:03:58 UTC
So I've just spent a few hours playing with the camera modes and studying the CCP posted video to try and understand the new camera system. I can't compare it to the old camera because, even after years of play, I never sat down and learned that one, but I do have some comments about the "present" system (yes the try new camera check box is set). Unfortunately, because of the multiple modes and dramatically different operation in each mode, the (new) camera makes very little sense and is very frustrating to use. I ran across many inconsistencies and or out right bugs. Given the present system, I have zero confidence that when I need to examine, lookat, or track something quickly that I will be able to do so. I'll try here to list some of the specific problems I had:

1) First off, I've disabled the radial menu completely (assigned it to an event that my mouse+keyboard can't generate). For all the years I've been in the game this feature has been most frustrating as *instinctively* we can't tell when or if it will appear. Sure it is *conceptually* simple (it only appears when the cursor is over a large stationary object), but in game play, since the screen can sometimes be completely filled with an LSO, there are times when it is impossible to pivot the camera without zooming way out first. %99 of the time left-click-hold always pivots the camera so we get used to the pivot control, but then we are when too close to an object, pivot doesn't work. This is an example of an *inconsistent* interface and it *should be* the bane of UI/UX designers. Left-click-hold should **always** pivot the camera - the times when it does not are BUGS.

2) The first person camera is a perfect example of the EVE UI breaking sensible UX rules. Left-click-hold should pivot the camera about the cockpit 1st-person perspective - but it doesn't. If the need to reset forward is important, then Alt-3 (while already in first person mode) could do this, but we should be able to look left, right, up, down, or backwards just like the orbit camera. Maybe then the 1st person isn't needed at all - maybe zooming all the way into an object could cause the cross-hairs to appear, and pressing Alt-2 (while already in orbit cam mode and zoomed completely in) re-centers the camera forward? Maybe we only need two camera modes - your call on that one.

3) Selecting objects/ships is another inconsistent action. Hold-alt-select, Hold-C-select, Hold-T-select, etc. are all reasonable ways to select the operation to perform immediately on the object under the cursor (be it either on screen or, in the overview list, the map beta, or solar system browser). But this should also work regardless of which camera mode is being used (currently the tactical camera ignores most all of these) AND the selection *should hold* even if the camera mode is changed!

4) I frequently found I needed to click in blank space somewhere to make a new selection work. This should be considered a BUG - if there is some obscure mode that has been activated then it needs to be re-though and removed. Every click on an object should act the same.

5) Left clicking on things frequently doesn't do anything!! This is one of the most fatal UI/UX flaws - when users do not get an immediate acknowledgement of straight forward UI event, they loose trust and confidence in the entire UI. This is fundamentally important - yet even Windows 8,9,10 fail at this for some unfathomable reason. I understand that tracking a ship once it has entered warp maybe has become a game-play balance issue, that is fine. But not doing *anything* when clicking on a ship which is clearly visible on the screen or in the overview is a serious problem.

6) The tactical camera seems to be the biggest violator of UI rules. The attached/detached mode is confusing. Where is the indicator about to what we are attached? Right-click-drag to detach (and moves the camera??!) makes no sense what so ever. Left-click-hold now drags a window over a group of targets (sometimes) instead of pivoting the camera. Hold-C-drag-group doesn't select anything, nor does Hold-alt-drag-group or Hold-T ... ??? Pick the nearest object if only one should be selected, but make the UI consistent. Now, I think drag-group-to-target is fabulous, and this feature makes the entire drag-group concept worth the trouble BUT not via a left-click. Drag-to-group should be assigned to a Right-click. And Right-click-drag-to-group SHOULD also work in both the 1st person and orbit camera modes as well. ------ Actually, let me throw this out: left-click-hold maybe *shouldn't* move the camera. Maybe Right-click-hold should always move the camera (in every camera mode). This way left-click-hold can always drag-select just the way all windowing UIs currently do. This would likely be the very best way to fix the UI.

7) The zoom to cursor which is currently only available with the "detached" tactical camera mode, is actually reasonably decent UI for *moving the camera location* around in a 3D space (a difficult problem with any 3D UI) BUT the problem here is that it is very different from the orbit (and hopefully soon the 1st person) camera, as well as the galaxy map browser. The concept of "click on something to base your camera location" - or "lookat" something - is a better and more intuitive way of moving the camera location, and should probably be used in the tactical camera at all times. There should really only be one way to move the camera location throughout the game.

8) Alt-zoom is another problem. Two different zoom modes (dolly & lens) make sense to movie producers, but I'm not so sure it does for average users. Although changing the camera field of view is useful, attaching this to Left-alt is confusing (Left-alt may already be held to lookat objects - thus zoom will work differently when not intended). I suggest to hold the 'back' key to alter the zoom mode.

Hope this helps...
Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#663 - 2016-04-28 14:10:46 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:

We are aware of this issue and hope to fix it soon, most likely as a bindable hotkey.

CCP Turtlepower


Turtlepower - Are there are updates on the restoration of the function?

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#664 - 2016-05-02 11:20:35 UTC
I am really impressed with the new scan button on the left side of the window, this feels like playing with my left hand now. Brilliant decision.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#665 - 2016-05-03 16:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
There are still a couple of issues making the new camera very undesirable to the extent that i will not undock at any point if it is made compulsory in the current form.

- New camera still requires 4x the mouse input to look up and down as it does to look left or right. That makes it completely unfit for my purposes as the primary input method for manually piloting.

- New camera zoom is still far too fast for ratchet-less scroll wheel mice.

Give the option to have up and down the same speed as left and right as per the old camera.

Give the option to adjust the speed of the zoom. Being able to turn off the delay / acceleration of the zoom would be very nice too,

To me it seems like the team got so obsessed with polish that they forgot some of the basics of what makes the current camera work.
Idame Isqua
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#666 - 2016-05-05 09:03:16 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
There are still a couple of issues making the new camera very undesirable to the extent that i will not undock at any point if it is made compulsory in the current form.

- New camera still requires 4x the mouse input to look up and down as it does to look left or right. That makes it completely unfit for my purposes as the primary input method for manually piloting.

- New camera zoom is still far too fast for ratchet-less scroll wheel mice.

Give the option to have up and down the same speed as left and right as per the old camera.

Give the option to adjust the speed of the zoom. Being able to turn off the delay / acceleration of the zoom would be very nice too,

To me it seems like the team got so obsessed with polish that they forgot some of the basics of what makes the current camera work.


Pretty sure mine has equal axis

Zooming in and out is fine on ratchet less my mouse can do both but I play eve with ratchet

Issues I still have
If I look at something the camera does into dumb mode
If I look at something please make it default to auto tracking my own ship IF I have autotracking on
In missions with really slow rats the camera dosn't even remain on the ship I'm looking at, it remains stationary as the NPC drifts away (AND it dosn't track it

People with autotracking on expect functionality from their camera


Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#667 - 2016-05-31 16:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
I'm going to reask this again because, it's apparently been lost in the shuffle.

Where is the custom tracking position for the camera? You guys took away the old camera and the new one its not feature parity to the one you've axed.

We use to be able to set a custom placement for camera rather then right smack behind the ship.

CCP please give use back the option to set a custom camera position.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#668 - 2016-06-01 18:59:05 UTC
Sergey Hawk wrote:
CCP really disappoint me.
New camera is a peace of ****!
You turned off the old camera but does not fix the new camera. New camera is a step backward.

  • Camera with Dynamic Center Offset On and Off has a different zoom sensitivity. When Dynamic Center Offset option is enabled zoom speed is ultra fast. For a few notches on the wheel my ship turn into small marker.
  • X, Y axis for camera rotation has different sensitivity. Many times people have written about it. And nothing fixed.
  • Unnecessary intermediate camera centering before starting rotation not removed.
  • Where is my Custom tracking position for camera without Dynamic Center Offset??????????

You can't fix simple thing and add simple features in your super-duper new cam but can disable old cam, which works much better than new.


just copy-paste from another topic

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#669 - 2016-06-01 19:08:25 UTC
Idame Isqua wrote:

Pretty sure mine has equal axis




It doesnt though.

Draw a circle with your mouse pointer on your screen. Pay close attention to how far you pan left and right, and how little you pan up and down during that circle.
Irrebo Hester
Doomheim
#670 - 2016-06-20 14:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Irrebo Hester
Pretty sure this has been allready posted but here it goes again:

Make an option to turn the Mouse Acceleration for the "new camera" OFF.

And by mouse acceleration i mean the faster you move the mouse, the faster the camera moves. Also just make it stop after i stop my mouse movement.

This is NOT a 3d movie or a console FPS. Please stop fecking the game with this nausea-inducing bullcrap.

Shocked

Also, if in the future the same is gonna happen with the new scan interface, just fire the whole design team for this, i can't even start on how anti-functional that is too.

Soo much eye candy yet so little brains to this its like you're making a movie not a game.
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#671 - 2016-06-25 18:08:07 UTC
What updates planned for the camera with June 28 update?
Maybe you will add Custom tracking position or fix ultra fast zoom?
What will CCP do?

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”