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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

First post First post First post
Author
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#621 - 2016-02-25 05:48:38 UTC
Iris Lurechia wrote:
What's really bugging me is the lack of the old tracking camera. While before I could click that button and track all that I target automatically, now I have to hold ALT every time I click. This is making dscanning multiple sites & planets in FW space especially cumbersome. Please CCP put a tracking camera option into the system to save my putting a dead weight on the alt key.

Apologies if this has been mentioend already, but 30+ pages is a bit much to read through.


Toggle is now "Shift+C" to cycle it on.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#622 - 2016-02-25 06:10:35 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Iris Lurechia wrote:
What's really bugging me is the lack of the old tracking camera. While before I could click that button and track all that I target automatically, now I have to hold ALT every time I click. This is making dscanning multiple sites & planets in FW space especially cumbersome. Please CCP put a tracking camera option into the system to save my putting a dead weight on the alt key.

Apologies if this has been mentioend already, but 30+ pages is a bit much to read through.


Toggle is now "Shift+C" to cycle it on.

Or since clicking was mentioned, you can right click the tracking button.
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#623 - 2016-02-25 09:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Any dev aside from Darwin able to comment on the tab situation?

Would love to know if we're going to get an explaination as to why the feature was removed without comment.

There seems to be a fair amount of user support on a few threads now for its return (or atleast a bind option) and it would be awesome to get clarify here if we're going to see its return.


Camera stuff aside, I'd want to know that too.

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Tara Eves
Republican Guard
#624 - 2016-02-25 12:17:39 UTC
Conjaq wrote:

I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.



THIS!

Please CCP, whatever you do, DO NOT disable the old camera - I even have all the camera shake and all that stuff disabled on the old camera because that made me feel sick.

By all means keep the new one for those that like it, but for those of us that don't have sea legs, please don't force us out.
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#625 - 2016-02-25 16:35:58 UTC
I would like to politely point out to the developers, that an increased amount of options is not detrimental for your game.
It is beneficial.
An increased amount of options allows you to cater to more people playing. More people playing means more income, more content and more diversity. You please the old AND the new.
A lot of options might "overwhelm" a new player, but really, why is that a bad thing? Eve overwhelms a new player on a lot of levels, but that is often a good thing. It's the excitement and wonder, sitting in a giant toy store, amazed by all the different things. Then you slowly make your way through it and manage to find what you like. That is quintessential to your game. The journey. There is no "journey" in narrowed down pathways and force-fed decisions.

To me, that is Eve. it is less of a sandbox, and more of a giant toy-store.
Or rather, it was.
Because Eve has taken a turn where certain shelves are empty now, and the variety decreased. Rooms are closed down to make the toy store smaller, and I wonder why and how, if there was no discernible downside to having more of it. Some toys have been replaced by low-quality products. They might look shinier, but their manufacturing quality is shoddy and they don't feel as good when played with. Other products have been removed because some clumsy kid managed to hurt itself when mis-using the toy. Thus the toy gets removed and the joy been taken away from everyone else who could play with it properly? That is not only senseless but also a very poor marketing strategy.

That is how it feels when you kill old options and/or bring in the mangled new ones. I talk about OPTIONS and USABILITY and not gameplay related content, don't confuse that. Some things you brute-forced on us have simply not been okay. Some of us went away because of it. Some of us just stopped actually playing the game and just sit in there chatting because we didn't want to lose contact to the people. I don't wonder. I also don't want to know how far the concurrent player counter would drop if you'd allow evegate to access your chats as long as you are subscribed.
What I DO want to know is how it would really look like nowadays when you hadn't rushed so many things and if you hadn't made so many questionable decisions of half-hearted products.

Sure, having more options could mean you have to look out for more potential bugs, and have a greater amount of code that might get in the way of things but it's not always as bad like that. Because I am absolutely certain you could always reproduce any old features to the dot. I would like to believe that. Maybe because I'm optimistic! :D I just don't get why you are not reproducing the things first, and then go from there to improve based on feedback.
A good example for that is the new map. The single best thing about the new map is, that I can switch it off. The few added functionalities (which has been coming in MONTHS after initial beta inception) do NOT justify me using a product that has greatly decreased performance and visibility.
I dread the day when you disable the old map and old camera, while not having the new features up to par. Much like the huge mistake you did with opportunities.

While I enjoy the idea of getting rid of legacy code, the only reason I do is because I hope that the NEW code is being well documented and written better so that changes can be made easier.

But I have no guarantee if it actually IS an upgrade on the programmer's end :c
I would really like to know about it. Not the ins-and-outs but just simple facts for me to digest. Because I can only talk about what I see ingame. And I see things that are everything but rosy.

I would like to enjoy more content of eve online. But I can't, since the User Interface and it's functionality keep pushing me away from that content. The recent direction of UI development pushes me away from enjoying to play the game.
Felix Judge
Regnum Ludorum
#626 - 2016-02-26 21:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Felix Judge
oops.

So c-toggle is now possible.

Would be nicer, if more obvious.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#627 - 2016-02-27 22:48:28 UTC
You can also right click on the orbit camera button. Not really any more obvious but useful if you've done a lot of keyboard remapping.

Daemun of Khanid

Ian Morbius
Potomac Greeting Card Company
#628 - 2016-02-27 23:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ian Morbius
The new camera is not much of an improvement over the old camera. In time, I guess it will be okay.

The o7 Show had a segment on the camera. Begins at 14:51.

o7: The EVE Online Show - Episode 14

Found it informative.
Lelira Cirim
Doomheim
#629 - 2016-02-28 09:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lelira Cirim
Dominous Nolen wrote:
As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment

Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows

Since January's patch (maybe even back into December) the minimize function of the double tap tab feature no longer works (I'm sure it can be rebound, but....)


Seems like the worst place for signal:noise ratio, but whatever.

I /bugged the Tab key change the first time I encountered it. It's that ingrained. Being able to remap keys that you've never had to map before is a lot of trial and error. This kind of thing at least deserved a patch note, and most of us never saw one.

The tweet indicates functionality was removed, and removed implies it cannot be remapped.

I'm baffled to explain the decision to "remove the functionality" of a "confusing keybind" rather than simply UNSET THE KEYBIND by default. You know... addressing the complaint without causing a hundred more complaints.

I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out...

Sometimes you don't have to refactor :legacycode:. You can actually stick a bandaid on a problem and appease everyone. The bandaid is called "choice". It's a nice opt-in feature. When that actually happens... run with it! Cool

Do not actively tank my patience.

Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#630 - 2016-02-29 02:45:03 UTC
Lelira Cirim wrote:
I'm baffled to explain the decision to "remove the functionality" of a "confusing keybind" rather than simply UNSET THE KEYBIND by default. You know... addressing the complaint without causing a hundred more complaints.

Exactly... it is so ... so otherworldly. That's how out there it is. I guess there a lot of sayings that go like "not seeing the forest from all the trees" or something like that.

I've submitted a support ticket about the matter recently. You know, hard data and proper customer feedback.
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#631 - 2016-03-03 11:55:40 UTC
Looked at the So called all singing and dancing NEW camera set up for all of 30 seconds, realised it was not fit for purpose and reverted back the old set up, which at the time worked.

Since then Apart from the ever extending 'Black Screen' issue, and yes it's still there CCP and getting worse for a lot of players, Another issue started to creep in, That when you undock you were left staring at the image 'From the inside of your ship' only resolved by scrolling out each and every time you undock.

Tried all sorts of visual positions and ranges on docking to see if that effects the undock situation and nothing seems to make the slightest difference, Your left staring backwards though the thruster animation at the station and this seems to be the default situation.

If this is an attempt by CCP to force players to use the new set up it's in pretty poor taste to be honest, Force never achieved anything except lost accounts.
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#632 - 2016-03-03 15:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
Starting to notice the orbit camera when highlighted on something with the ALT+Click like a pod or ship (Occurring in PVP and PVE) once destroyed will lock on a solid coloured screen with my overview windows up and not allow for adjustment for several seconds to minutes at a time.

I have a record of it. I will just need to find it and upload it for review

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#633 - 2016-03-04 00:12:48 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Starting to notice the orbit camera when highlighted on something with the ALT+Click like a pod or ship (Occurring in PVP and PVE) once destroyed will lock on a solid coloured screen with my overview windows up and not allow for adjustment for several seconds to minutes at a time.

I have a record of it. I will just need to find it and upload it for review

I had worst problem until I found it's the middle button on the right or second one from top of 4 that fixes the cam on ship.
I also found a way to do it with look at.
But I don't really know what I am doing yet, as I don't know the command yet.
Maybe there is a way to fix this in the key binding menu(s).

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#634 - 2016-03-06 08:25:45 UTC
Feature request:
New Camera - Place the ability to have the custom camera position back in for the orbit camera mode. I rather like be able to offen my camera so its not looking right at the hull.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#635 - 2016-03-06 09:19:36 UTC
Whats with the not being able to pan the camera while in warp?

Is this intentional, how do I turn it off - broken, please fix it - or just an unknown thing that occurs way too often?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#636 - 2016-03-07 04:08:10 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Whats with the not being able to pan the camera while in warp?

Is this intentional, how do I turn it off - broken, please fix it - or just an unknown thing that occurs way too often?


What mode? I haven't run into that with the orbit camera, I never turn on the tactical

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#637 - 2016-03-07 06:51:19 UTC
As previously requested multiple times in this thread.

Give us a toggle to turn off the ambient noise on the tactical camera.

Allow us to turn it off, don't just turn it down in the software.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#638 - 2016-03-08 11:02:00 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Whats with the not being able to pan the camera while in warp?

Is this intentional, how do I turn it off - broken, please fix it - or just an unknown thing that occurs way too often?


What mode? I haven't run into that with the orbit camera, I never turn on the tactical

Orbit mode - Don't use tactical, that noise is just too much and first person is a nice gimmick but has no practical use. Like tactical it needs to have a toggle, noise off, gimmick mode off.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#639 - 2016-03-08 13:10:40 UTC
Today after update i again tried a new camera. My eyes allow me only 10 minutes of testing.
1. As in the previous test, zoom is totally unresponsive. and and also often zoom level continues to reset without cause.
2. Because of your stupid decision to move pivot point somewhere in space my ship continues to hide behind the channels of scanners windows. No frequently as before, but it's still very annoying.
3. Still stars have motion blur when the camera rotates or shakes. My eyes can not withstand such tortures. I can set camera speed to 4x and this removes blur but camera speed is too fast for a comfortable flight.
4. Still no custom tracking position.

So i again turn off this new crappy camera
[capslock]
OLD CAMERA MUCH BETTER FOR FLYING AND COMBAT
[/capslock]

I'll just quote my old message when CCP tried to improve old camera movement and now they are jumping on the same rake.
Quote:
Every time I see a record about improving the tracking camera I want to hit the developers with something heavy.

I don't understand why CCP made this freaking flying camera for simple rotation by three points.
We have 3 point:
1st point our ship (center of rotation), 2nd point current tracking position and 3rd point new tracking position. This creates a simple 3d angle and all we need is to rotate camera relative to our ship on that 3d angle as fast as posible without camera pirouette and aerobatic maneuvers.
That's how rotating the camera works in desing and CAD softwares and you don't need to invent the wheel

Truly it is very annoying, when the simple angle something about 15° and easiest way to move camera is move in a straight line, but instead, the camera starts to perform a inside loop with the speed of a turtle in absolutely wrong direction.

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#640 - 2016-03-08 13:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Turtlepower
Sergey Hawk wrote:
Today after update i again tried a new camera.


Thanks for trying the new camera out! Unfortunately the release we planned on patching today was delayed so all of our camera improvements have still not hit tranquility. We will hopefully be able to release these changes tomorrow. Sorry about the delay!

Fly safe
CCP Turtlepower