These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Citadel] Capital Escalations and Drifter Boss

First post First post
Author
Circumstantial Evidence
#161 - 2016-04-20 21:23:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There's currently a bug that causes the Arithmos to sometimes accelerate to 200,000 m/s while fighting. We have found the cause and are getting it fixed right now.
The Arithmos is well-named... and very, very good at math involving large numbers.
oResolution
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2016-04-20 23:49:29 UTC
So I put a Heavy Warp Disruptor II on my Thanatos to hold down the drifter (3 points of strength). And while he was ~16km away from me he warped away. We had a faction scram (also 3 points) on a Proteus the last time we tried, and it stayed on field.

Does the drifter have more warp strength now or do the Heavy Disruptors just not work on him?

Also still wondering why the Upgraded Avengers takes less damage from Fighters than frigates do...
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#163 - 2016-04-21 00:02:39 UTC
Honestly I don't really see the point in ******* around with the cap escalations to this extent. You're a couple days away from release and it sounds like you still have bugs galore to sort out.

The c5 and c6 sites really needed two things done: change the spawn locations to be random around the site - fixes solo dread, bomber and smart bombing running so that you need dread+loki+carrier on field. There you go, you nearly have a pvp fleet right there. Magic!

The other thing was to fix the bug that caused sites to stay for 4 days. Just despawn the bloody things an hour or two after someone warped to it. Fixes your prolonged farming problem. This way you can still run them in subcaps or caps but you won't be able to farm.

Oh yeah, c4s need the ****** up spawning ranges fixed.


Of course, you guys went in and "fixed" the gun resolution on dreads so now you have to **** around and balance the sigs resolution and the HAWs. Yeah gl with that one.
Anthar Thebess
#164 - 2016-04-21 07:17:45 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
So even if you could achieve the same result with 4 alts in ships that cost only 2b total. That is still just a 300m npc in 45 minutes. That is 400m ISK/hour split four ways, either 4 chars or 4 players, doesn't matter, that is 4 accounts that need to be paid or plexed. That is ****** income, worse than some other known methods that require only 1-2 chars. So surely not imbalanced.

And it would mean that you sit in the same site for over an hour. if you see new incoming hole after 35 minutes shooting the drifter you go away with nothing.

And people doing it with many alts will be especially vulnerable to ganks because they are very distracted.

No - what i am saying.
It is a boss meant for capitals, that can be easily killed by 1 person using 2 alts in sub capitals.
Mechanic that by CCP desire was meant to be challenging, just meet eve players.



Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#165 - 2016-04-21 11:01:25 UTC
I get your point. I guess the problem is that some combinations of faction ships and high-end faction and deadspace modules are so powerful that these ships are as good as or even better than a capital.

But as long as they are also as expensive, maybe that doesn't really matter. But prices fluctuate of course... I think rattles are much cheaper now than they used to be?

.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#166 - 2016-04-26 10:55:46 UTC
I like the the changes personally. But at the same time see the point of some concerns. The drifter spawn should be tied to caps IMO, as the defining feature of c5/6 is the use of caps.

I really don't understand what people are saying with "risk 20B need the current massive payout" where as right now, that fleet pays for itself in no time at all. Escals right now are broken because they are just too much isk. A nurf is not a bad thing. I could solo (with 5 accounts) 3 sites per hour without breaking a sweat, and only leave the dread in the site, the rest just bounce at 100km. That pays for that 1 dread per month you we typically losing. And then some. And i am a crap mulitboxer.

Just because you make a crap ton of isk doesn't mean you should or will be able to in the future. People risk caps outside WH space for less.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Oskolda Eriker
WH0RE SQUAD
#167 - 2016-04-26 14:16:06 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
People risk caps outside WH space for less.

Oh, those at risk of afk-carriers.
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#168 - 2016-04-26 14:43:44 UTC
One question I haven't seen asked/answered is if attacking the Burner Drifter will give us a standings penalty, and what the long term consequences of consistently attacking them will be. If this escalation "boss" is just a Drifter to give it better AI, that's fine - but I want to understand if wormhole residents are being pushed to having interactions with Drifters, or if it's unintended.

Up until now, we have been able to choose whether we engage Drifters via attacking Circadian Seekers for Antikythera Element, choosing whether to run Drifter Incursions, or exploring and running the sites in the Unknown Wormholes. To my knowledge, doing so gives you a standings penalty which can make any of those NPCs hostile to you, and attack on sight, even in Highsec (please correct me if I'm wrong).

From a lore perspective it makes sense that constantly raiding Sleeper sites would trigger some consequences. Up until now, with the introduction of the Drifters mostly in K-Space, there were none. I just want to know what those consequence are.
Alkar G'hmarian
Addicted to Shljivovica
Addicted to Shljivovica Alliance
#169 - 2016-04-26 16:52:53 UTC
I dont like this ad-hoc solution to "filthy rich wormholer" problem. Me and my little corp, live in C5 with no effect, C4 static WH. Half of the people have no idea how the WH combat sites work.. after a few days of doing capital escalations, number of combat sites starts droping, so, we came to a solution, of doing sites 4 days in a week, starting monday. Usualy, if you are working sites like that, you will have 5-6 sites per week (including relic/data sites). You will usualy have 5-8 people in a fleet (4 capital pilots, web loki, ecm BS, booster pilot, noctis pilot...).
Farming one combat site gives you ~750 mil. ISK.
Every forth day you will do entire site, and it is ~1 bil.
So, you have 2.2 bil. for the first 3 days, plus 1 bil on the last day - 3.2 bil. ISK per site.
5 sites per week = 16 bil.
divide that with 8 people, and you get the ISK earned per week for every pearson = 2 bil.
That is somewhere around 280 mil. ISK per day...

And you want to tell me that there is no other way in EVE to make 280 mil. per day?

Ok, lets go a little bit further...

Every day, you need to prep before actual farming...

You need to close the stat and every other WH you have, you need to activate sites, prepare the warp in and so on...
With all that preparations, and actual site running, salvaging, you are looking at a 3 hours job...

So.. 280 mil. ISK / 3 Hours.... Hm..

And you have 15-20 Bil. setup vulnerable in space...

Sometimes, there is a k162 WH with 20 online people - 0 ISK today...
Sometimes, new sig apears on probe scan - GTFO...
And on very bad days, you have a fleet loged off in your home :)

And now you want us to clear that 5 -6 sites to get the drifter??

OK...

40 Mil. ISK per capital escalation - 120 Mil. ISK..
Regular site aprox - 200 Mil.
Drifter - 350 Mil.
Entire site gone for 670 Mil....
You do that with all 6 spawned sites you have in your WH and you get 4 Bil. ISK.
Per week...
For your entire fleet...

I dont want to calculate how much ISK per hour is that... I will sell my capitals and get my alt to mine ice...

You get the point...
This will only get people to abandon WH space (C5 and C6 first, C4 will follow)...
I would gladly accept if CCP would cut the profits from farming... even for half...
But this... simply doesnt make sense.
FeistyOne
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2016-04-26 17:45:54 UTC
Alkar G'hmarian wrote:
I dont like this ad-hoc solution to "filthy rich wormholer" problem.
But this... simply doesnt make sense.


If your corp is so heavily structured toward dedicated pve times/days, then plex in you static in future with 8 guys non stop those 4 days and get even richer..
Nou Mene
Krypted Gaming
K R Y P T E D
#171 - 2016-04-26 22:24:52 UTC
After trying the site I actually like it, but trying constructive criticism I must ask if the stated objectives are going to be achieved.
Does the drifter have at least 2 different behaviors? It looked like....

You can solo-dread a site and get most part of site-value, I can't see how this design pushes group play. You get no rewards for bringing more pilots. This applies mostly for the Naglfar, the other dreads cannot carry and refit between HAW and normal guns.

Maybe only if you use subcaps you going to want getting friends. You would be getting almost full payout. And raiding your c5&c6 statics might worth it. Rolling your static and closing undesired connections coming to the static sounds a bit of work, but doable.

I see total income not varying much if by finishing sites these rotates faster.

Also, might be bug:
If you killed the whole first normal spawn + dread escalation, bringing another cap (FAX) would not spawn more escalations.

Greetings.
O'nira
Litla Sundlaugin
#172 - 2016-04-27 01:21:50 UTC
oResolution wrote:
So I put a Heavy Warp Disruptor II on my Thanatos to hold down the drifter (3 points of strength). And while he was ~16km away from me he warped away. We had a faction scram (also 3 points) on a Proteus the last time we tried, and it stayed on field.

Does the drifter have more warp strength now or do the Heavy Disruptors just not work on him?

Also still wondering why the Upgraded Avengers takes less damage from Fighters than frigates do...


it has +3warp core strength meaning you need 4 points to stop it from warping away.
Iam Cloaked
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#173 - 2016-04-27 12:07:19 UTC
W-space, especially C5/C6 is these days plagued by renters and Goon pets. Nerfing it is a good thing.
Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#174 - 2016-04-27 15:16:21 UTC
Iam Cloaked wrote:
W-space, especially C5/C6 is these days plagued by renters and Goon pets. Nerfing it is a good thing.


Confirming that wormhole space needs less people. Roll
Pinkylein
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#175 - 2016-04-27 16:37:13 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Iam Cloaked wrote:
W-space, especially C5/C6 is these days plagued by renters and Goon pets. Nerfing it is a good thing.


Confirming that wormhole space needs less people. Roll


Initial intention was not to live in one anyway afaik ... or at least "we never thought someone would live there at all" ... so if everyone leaves ... would be like CCPs initial prediction. :D
Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#176 - 2016-04-27 17:44:32 UTC
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2016-04-28 00:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Alkar G'hmarian wrote:
You will usualy have 5-8 people in a fleet (4 capital pilots, web loki, ecm BS, booster pilot, noctis pilot...).
Farming one combat site gives you ~750 mil. ISK.
Every forth day you will do entire site, and it is ~1 bil.
So, you have 2.2 bil. for the first 3 days, plus 1 bil on the last day - 3.2 bil. ISK per site.
5 sites per week = 16 bil.
divide that with 8 people, and you get the ISK earned per week for every pearson = 2 bil.
That is somewhere around 280 mil. ISK per day...
And you want to tell me that there is no other way in EVE to make 280 mil. per day?
Ok, lets go a little bit further...
Every day, you need to prep before actual farming...
You need to close the stat and every other WH you have, you need to activate sites, prepare the warp in and so on...
With all that preparations, and actual site running, salvaging, you are looking at a 3 hours job...
So.. 280 mil. ISK / 3 Hours.... Hm..

Just because you're horrifically inefficient at running sites and do so as part of a normal corp does not mean that this is the average case scenario of what people actually do to really MAKE isk in wspace.

What actually happens is you have 2-3 guys with 3 toons each in a hole who log in, close all exits within 10min and farm all their sites at a rate of ~5 sites an hour, earning them 1.2-1.8bil per hour each, probably 2-3 hours a day for the first 2 weeks in a well selected WH.
it's beyond simple to make 20-30bil a week per person in a C5 with minimum time investment. You can very easily scale it into the multiple 100s by having setups in multiple systems with different sets of alts and cycling through 2-3, or more, systems each day to maximize farming time.
(note that this also means you can completely ignore any hostiles in one of your systems since you just log out and farm in a different hole.)

as for setup cost? sure, it costs isk to field caps and more isk to buy/train alts to fly them but how is that remotely a concern when it comes to escalation isk farming? you make enough isk in 1-2 days to fully replace any fleet you're using and can fully fund another fleet and the alts to fly it in another system with what you make in your first system in a week or 2.
isk is not a limiting factor to anything involving isk farming in wormholes and as such any setup cost is simply not a relevant point.


Rek Seven wrote:
Iam Cloaked wrote:
W-space, especially C5/C6 is these days plagued by renters and Goon pets. Nerfing it is a good thing.
Confirming that wormhole space needs less people. Roll

it absolutely needs less people who only exist in WHs to farm sites. Especially in the upper level corps that can dictate the large scale development of wspace.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#178 - 2016-04-28 05:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
IMO even crab targets are better than no targets... Besides it's not like people won't be able to farm wormholes any more, it will just happen less and they will use cheaper ships.
half san
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2016-04-28 07:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: half san
CCP Fozzie wrote:
FAQ (big thanks to Corbexx for helping collect these questions from the community):
yeah thanks, for nothing. It is not enough that CCP don't care much about WH space, now our own people back stab us.

No farming-MAKING isk in i C5 and C6 wh space, but it is ok to have farming boots in NULL, it is ok when you jump in null sec system and local channel spike for your character soo boots can easy warp to safe, yeah that is awesome job CCP.
At least people were playing EVE while farming-MAKING isk in WH space.

Pinkylein wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Iam Cloaked wrote:
W-space, especially C5/C6 is these days plagued by renters and Goon pets. Nerfing it is a good thing.


Confirming that wormhole space needs less people. Roll


Initial intention was not to live in one anyway afaik ... or at least "we never thought someone would live there at all" ... so if everyone leaves ... would be like CCPs initial prediction. :D

Why should players make content in WH space? Why should they live there, it is prohibited by CCP? Maybe players like WH space and they make their own content there, CCP should cherish that, not destroy it.

Please CCP don't help WH space any more.

Cheers.
Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
The Initiative.
#180 - 2016-04-28 17:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
[Redacted]

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood