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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
#2121 - 2016-02-17 15:42:36 UTC
Don't worry Bones, I've heard this is in development:

Introducing

Devflight

That's right for a small consideration of AUR you could hire your very own Dev to actually fly your ship for you!

Imagine being able to sit spinning in your station doing absolutely nothing? That's right, we've made things even easier, thanks to the wonder of us, the clever people at CCP, it's all being done for you. Now with all that spare time you could be with your kids instead or take the dog for a walk or maybe play a completely different game all together.


Go get your credit card now!

DevMiner- 10,000 Aur
DevMiner Booster Bro-5,000 Aur
DevPVP-10,000 Aur
DevPVP Repper-5,000 Aur
DevAlliance Leader-15,000 Aur
DevLogin/Logoff - That's right we'll even log you in and out of the game. -30,000 Aur

Special Discounts*

Buy 5 Devs and make your own leet corp (with bonus apparel)!
Buy 10 Devs and get your own game studio!

Now you don't even have to waste your time playing Eve, just pay somebody else to play it for you, it really couldn't be simpler.

*Only applies if you're not actually your own credit card.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2122 - 2016-02-17 16:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
NOW! You can get a bot to play for you! (For a small daily AUR fee)
It will be much like watching Twitch, however (and here is the kicker!) you can take over and control it at any point!

Feel you are losing fights?
Pay for a super skilled bot today!

Is your bot still losing?
Pump more SP into it with our new offer on Skill Injectors!

Is your bot still losing?
Buy a hardwire set and a ship with PWN them all fit!

PWN them n00bz!!1!
Conquering EVE is as close as your wallet!!!

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vabanaz Arjar
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2123 - 2016-02-17 17:56:25 UTC
Nah, you guys are wrong.
The next thing they come up with wil be removal of attributes.
By setting the fixed amout of skillpoints one can get per month to a value lower than you can get now (with remaps and +5 Imps) they will increase the demand of Plex because everything will take longer (one can of course choose to buy injectors to shorten the time). Of course they will look for a nice cover story for this one, too. So noone will notice... Oh, wait!
Mishra San
#2124 - 2016-02-17 18:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mishra San
I used skill injectors on a nice new pair of PI whores, but I failed to realize beforehand that by doing so I'd win the game.

Now that I've won the game, I have nothing else left to do..these injectors should come with a warning label..
Josef Djugashvilis
#2125 - 2016-02-17 18:52:00 UTC
This really will be a case of CCP saying, 'watch what they do, not what they say'

By this, I mean that even though some of us are not happy with cash for skills and indeed some may quit, CCP will simply wait to see if cash for skills bring in more money than they lose in subscription fees.

It is all about the dollar...

This is not a signature.

Josef Djugashvilis
#2126 - 2016-02-17 18:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Mishra San wrote:
I just used skill injectors on a nice hew pair of PI whores, but I failed to realize beforehand that by doing so I'd win the game.

Now that I've won the game, I have nothing else left to do..these injectors should come with a warning label..


Lordy...once again, no one is claiming that cash for skills means that one can win at Eve as there is no win.

BUT, cash for skills is a way for those with more disposable real life money to gain an advantage over those who cannot afford or have no desire to avail themselves of cash for skills.

This is not a signature.

Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2127 - 2016-02-17 19:33:13 UTC
Vabanaz Arjar wrote:
Nah, you guys are wrong.
The next thing they come up with wil be removal of attributes.
By setting the fixed amout of skillpoints one can get per month to a value lower than you can get now (with remaps and +5 Imps) they will increase the demand of Plex because everything will take longer (one can of course choose to buy injectors to shorten the time). Of course they will look for a nice cover story for this one, too. So noone will notice... Oh, wait!
Even the kissass brigade would kick off if it was lower than actual training times now, unless your referring to a f2p model with a subs bonus's package Big smile
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2128 - 2016-02-17 19:34:42 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
All that basic waffle above is irrelevant as all was introduced way before that statement helmar made...
So a promise broken before it was made is somehow a promise you still believe? A promise no one takes steps towards keeping as you would have it interpreted is one you chose to value?

Please tell me I'm wrong here because you're just sounding painfully naive about how things tolerated in the past could shape how CCP views it's promises in the future. And without doubt that's exactly what happened here.

Berrice Silf wrote:
MCTC i've always found useless to be honest, what was the point of having 2 / 3 characters on one account that you can only use 1 at a time, now though its different as you can fully utilize the farming of skill points from each and every spare slot.
So you're now arguing the point of it not being personally attractive and thus is a non issue? Or was this just to state your opinion on them while realizing it has no bearing on the very real advantage they bring even as a NES item.

Berrice Silf wrote:
There is not legal RMT and illegal RMT either, You have the ToS laid out in the EULA you either abide by the rules set out in said document or you break them by some form of RMT.
Wrong, PLEX is RMT. Selling NES goods in game is RMT. Both are legal under the EULA. I'm not sure whether it's a lack of competence or integrity that has you eating the BS that it's not (which makes your later jab really ironic, especially when around the first unholy rage RMT ban campaign the directly equated the 2 in their ads for PLEX, detailing that you could buy isk without getting banned), or whether it's simply a matter of being incapable of being critical of things that were here in some form before you were since that somehow renders them beyond criticism question.

Berrice Silf wrote:
Since the statement was made though we have now had this released, pretty much made a mockery of CCP / helmar / the game itself. The skill point is at the very core of the game enabling all aspects of play and you can buy it for cash, it has gone against everything that was held in the highest regard for the game - time investment.

I'm not trying to put any genie back either, that boat sailed as soon as this hit, your trying to gloss it as accessibility which is just BS, It's nothing but pure greed. If it was in anyway to help the game they wouldnt have been the price they are and certainly do not help the average new joe. Don't you remember this yet your still a CCP suckass :
You were right about the price prediction, I conceded that, but that doesn't change much about the rest of the idea and its uses of functions. And that function IS trading time more accessibly than the Bazaar. It is accessibility by any definition of the word, but your irrational bitterness certainly shows in your blatant mis-characterizations regardless of who they're aimed at.

As a side point my time investment works just fine, so is everyone else' as evidenced by the stock on the inlector market. All that traded time is coming from somewhere and someone.

So lets recap:
You didn't question the trade of time or RMT because they were here before you.
You refuse to recognize them as such.
You didn't question them because they were here before you were.
You saw one change to a more accessible in game form but for some reason assumed it couldn't/shouldn't happen to the other.
You took at face value a promise that by your interpretation was already being broken, and unquestioningly gave them a series of passes.
You expanded that promise to a direct assurance about that handling of SP despite your prior tolerance of paid mechanics giving no room for it.
You saw a new form of another paid for advantage introduced despite the promise and ignored it, possibly because you just didn't consider it personally worthwhile.
You're now trying any means by which to separate this and the past so you can justify your outrage.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2129 - 2016-02-17 19:39:54 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Mishra San wrote:
I just used skill injectors on a nice hew pair of PI whores, but I failed to realize beforehand that by doing so I'd win the game.

Now that I've won the game, I have nothing else left to do..these injectors should come with a warning label..


Lordy...once again, no is claiming that cash for skills means that one can win at Eve as there is no win.

BUT, cash for skills is a way for those with more disposable real life money to gain an advantage over those who cannot afford or have no desire to avail themselves of cash for skills.
Those who heard of the game and spent their or others money on a sub had the same advantage prior. Regardless, someone is going to have an advantage and either way the SP all comes from training.

What's really ironic is that the first max character didn't even use cash. He use in game assets and can't have his skills exceeded, meaning there is actually no way possible cash can give a skill advantage over him.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2130 - 2016-02-17 19:46:16 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
All that basic waffle above is irrelevant as all was introduced way before that statement helmar made...
So a promise broken before it was made is somehow a promise you still believe? A promise no one takes steps towards keeping as you would have it interpreted is one you chose to value?

Please tell me I'm wrong here because you're just sounding painfully naive about how things tolerated in the past could shape how CCP views it's promises in the future. And without doubt that's exactly what happened here.

Berrice Silf wrote:
MCTC i've always found useless to be honest, what was the point of having 2 / 3 characters on one account that you can only use 1 at a time, now though its different as you can fully utilize the farming of skill points from each and every spare slot.
So you're now arguing the point of it not being personally attractive and thus is a non issue? Or was this just to state your opinion on them while realizing it has no bearing on the very real advantage they bring even as a NES item.

Berrice Silf wrote:
There is not legal RMT and illegal RMT either, You have the ToS laid out in the EULA you either abide by the rules set out in said document or you break them by some form of RMT.
Wrong, PLEX is RMT. Selling NES goods in game is RMT. Both are legal under the EULA. I'm not sure whether it's a lack of competence or integrity that has you eating the BS that it's not (which makes your later jab really ironic, especially when around the first unholy rage RMT ban campaign the directly equated the 2 in their ads for PLEX, detailing that you could buy isk without getting banned), or whether it's simply a matter of being incapable of being critical of things that were here in some form before you were since that somehow renders them beyond criticism question.

Berrice Silf wrote:
Since the statement was made though we have now had this released, pretty much made a mockery of CCP / helmar / the game itself. The skill point is at the very core of the game enabling all aspects of play and you can buy it for cash, it has gone against everything that was held in the highest regard for the game - time investment.

I'm not trying to put any genie back either, that boat sailed as soon as this hit, your trying to gloss it as accessibility which is just BS, It's nothing but pure greed. If it was in anyway to help the game they wouldnt have been the price they are and certainly do not help the average new joe. Don't you remember this yet your still a CCP suckass :
You were right about the price prediction, I conceded that, but that doesn't change much about the rest of the idea and its uses of functions. And that function IS trading time more accessibly than the Bazaar. It is accessibility by any definition of the word, but your irrational bitterness certainly shows in your blatant mis-characterizations regardless of who they're aimed at.

As a side point my time investment works just fine, so is everyone else' as evidenced by the stock on the inlector market. All that traded time is coming from somewhere and someone.

So lets recap:
You didn't question the trade of time or RMT because they were here before you.
You refuse to recognize them as such.
You didn't question them because they were here before you were.
You saw one change to a more accessible in game form but for some reason assumed it couldn't/shouldn't happen to the other.
You took at face value a promise that by your interpretation was already being broken, and unquestioningly gave them a series of passes.
You expanded that promise to a direct assurance about that handling of SP despite your prior tolerance of paid mechanics giving no room for it.
You saw a new form of another paid for advantage introduced despite the promise and ignored it, possibly because you just didn't consider it personally worthwhile.
You're now trying any means by which to separate this and the past so you can justify your outrage.

Like i said all irrelevant as it was prior to the statement or before i even started to play, what does concern me is in that statement he said time over money and rise also said that skill decisions should still have priority over rapid respec's and now they've advertising it as a reskill / respec tool and not even including that it carries penalties Lol
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2131 - 2016-02-17 19:48:36 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Mishra San wrote:
I just used skill injectors on a nice hew pair of PI whores, but I failed to realize beforehand that by doing so I'd win the game.

Now that I've won the game, I have nothing else left to do..these injectors should come with a warning label..


Lordy...once again, no is claiming that cash for skills means that one can win at Eve as there is no win.

BUT, cash for skills is a way for those with more disposable real life money to gain an advantage over those who cannot afford or have no desire to avail themselves of cash for skills.
Those who heard of the game and spent their or others money on a sub had the same advantage prior. Regardless, someone is going to have an advantage and either way the SP all comes from training.

What's really ironic is that the first max character didn't even use cash. He use in game assets and can't have his skills exceeded, meaning there is actually no way possible cash can give a skill advantage over him.
Hang fire here ty, he liquidated some of his alt's which have to be trained the natural way so have been paid for also either by plex or subs - are they not with cash ???
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2132 - 2016-02-17 19:53:09 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
Like i said all irrelevant as it was prior to the statement or before i even started to play, what does concern me is in that statement he said time over money and rise also said that skill decisions should still have priority over rapid respec's and now they've advertising it as a reskill / respec tool and not even including that it carries penalties Lol
It's entirely relevant because it forms the basis for the rules that guide future decisions. We have an example here of exactly that.

Also time still works WITH money over just money. It's those who invest time that control what money is worth, after all.

As far as the ads, we all know what the tools are and how they work. We know their not lossless and the ads don't change that.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2133 - 2016-02-17 19:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Berrice Silf wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Mishra San wrote:
I just used skill injectors on a nice hew pair of PI whores, but I failed to realize beforehand that by doing so I'd win the game.

Now that I've won the game, I have nothing else left to do..these injectors should come with a warning label..


Lordy...once again, no is claiming that cash for skills means that one can win at Eve as there is no win.

BUT, cash for skills is a way for those with more disposable real life money to gain an advantage over those who cannot afford or have no desire to avail themselves of cash for skills.
Those who heard of the game and spent their or others money on a sub had the same advantage prior. Regardless, someone is going to have an advantage and either way the SP all comes from training.

What's really ironic is that the first max character didn't even use cash. He use in game assets and can't have his skills exceeded, meaning there is actually no way possible cash can give a skill advantage over him.
Hang fire here ty, he liquidated some of his alt's which have to be trained the natural way so have been paid for also either by plex or subs - are they not with cash ???
Depends, since by the poster who claims the cash advantage only exists with injectors by way of buying PLEX RL and selling them in game to fund progress, by his logic no.

For me and my position that all SP is made from cash, yes, though that makes injector SP and trained SP indistinguishable, meaning one can't have a paid for advantage over the other since their both paid.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2134 - 2016-02-17 20:00:25 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Like i said all irrelevant as it was prior to the statement or before i even started to play, what does concern me is in that statement he said time over money and rise also said that skill decisions should still have priority over rapid respec's and now they've advertising it as a reskill / respec tool and not even including that it carries penalties Lol
It's entirely relevant because it forms the basis for the rules that guide future decisions. We have an example here of exactly that.

Also time still works WITH money over just money. It's those who invest time that control what money is worth, after all.

As far as the ads, we all know what the tools are and how they work. We know their not lossless and the ads don't change that.
We asked for a way to respec and were told it's inefficient to and now its not mentioning helping the new player its a ****** expensive respecing mechanic - Explain ??
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2135 - 2016-02-17 20:02:40 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Like i said all irrelevant as it was prior to the statement or before i even started to play, what does concern me is in that statement he said time over money and rise also said that skill decisions should still have priority over rapid respec's and now they've advertising it as a reskill / respec tool and not even including that it carries penalties Lol
It's entirely relevant because it forms the basis for the rules that guide future decisions. We have an example here of exactly that.

Also time still works WITH money over just money. It's those who invest time that control what money is worth, after all.

As far as the ads, we all know what the tools are and how they work. We know their not lossless and the ads don't change that.
We asked for a way to respec and were told it's inefficient to and now its not mentioning helping the new player its a ****** expensive respecing mechanic - Explain ??
Wait, what the ad says overrides the way it works?

Explain??
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2136 - 2016-02-17 20:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Berrice Silf
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Like i said all irrelevant as it was prior to the statement or before i even started to play, what does concern me is in that statement he said time over money and rise also said that skill decisions should still have priority over rapid respec's and now they've advertising it as a reskill / respec tool and not even including that it carries penalties Lol
It's entirely relevant because it forms the basis for the rules that guide future decisions. We have an example here of exactly that.

Also time still works WITH money over just money. It's those who invest time that control what money is worth, after all.

As far as the ads, we all know what the tools are and how they work. We know their not lossless and the ads don't change that.
We asked for a way to respec and were told it's inefficient to and now its not mentioning helping the new player its a ****** expensive respecing mechanic - Explain ??
Wait, what the ad says overrides the way it works?

Explain??
Im trying to find the part about it helping the new player, must be in the small print:

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is great whenever you want to respec your skills, customize your skill tree or make some ISK.

Really really small print.

EDIT:
Ok from a marketing stand point and all the horse crap we were fed over this in the original blog don't you think the advert should of atleast led with :

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is a great way to introduce your friends or corp mates to a speedier introduction into the vast eve universe. you could alternatively customize your skills or make some isk.

but no they went straight for the wallet shot Roll
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2137 - 2016-02-17 20:42:53 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So a promise broken before it was made is somehow a promise you still believe? .
Freelancer117 wrote:
The Company broke the accord they made with us Capsuleers in 2011 after the Incarna expansion:

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

Regards, Freelancer
From here.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2138 - 2016-02-17 21:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So a promise broken before it was made is somehow a promise you still believe? .
Freelancer117 wrote:
The Company broke the accord they made with us Capsuleers in 2011 after the Incarna expansion:

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

Regards, Freelancer
From here.
Question still stands. The timeline is as such, Bazaar and time codes - 2003, PLEX - 2009? I think?, The promise not to give advantages for cash - 2011, MCTCs - 2013.

So we had cash capable advantages via GTC/PLEX since the beginning, but a line from a blog overrides that somehow?

Berrice Silf wrote:
Im trying to find the part about it helping the new player, must be in the small print:

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is great whenever you want to respec your skills, customize your skill tree or make some ISK.

Really really small print.

EDIT:
Ok from a marketing stand point and all the horse crap we were fed over this in the original blog don't you think the advert should of atleast led with :

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is a great way to introduce your friends or corp mates to a speedier introduction into the vast eve universe. you could alternatively customize your skills or make some isk.

but no they went straight for the wallet shot Roll
Are the only valid uses are the ones explicitly stated in that particular ad?

More importantly how is extracting SP to give to new players somehow less of a "wallet shot" than redistributing your SP? The cost is the same for the SP you want to part with either way, so what makes appealing to one stated goal morally reprehensible compared to another?

Basically I have no issue with the content of the ad so long as it doesn't misrepresent whatever it presents. Even if it's a presentation that only includes part of the function. It's like putting up an ad that says "Buy AUR for ship skins!" That doesn't detract from the other uses for AUR.
Suede
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2139 - 2016-02-17 21:29:30 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So a promise broken before it was made is somehow a promise you still believe? .
Freelancer117 wrote:
The Company broke the accord they made with us Capsuleers in 2011 after the Incarna expansion:

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

Regards, Freelancer
From here.
Question still stands. The timeline is as such, Bazaar and time codes - 2003, PLEX - 2009? I think?, The promise not to give advantages for cash - 2011, MCTCs - 2013.

So we had cash capable advantages via GTC/PLEX since the beginning, but a line from a blog overrides that somehow?

Berrice Silf wrote:
Im trying to find the part about it helping the new player, must be in the small print:

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is great whenever you want to respec your skills, customize your skill tree or make some ISK.

Really really small print.

EDIT:
Ok from a marketing stand point and all the horse crap we were fed over this in the original blog don't you think the advert should of atleast led with :

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is a great way to introduce your friends or corp mates to a speedier introduction into the vast eve universe. you could alternatively customize your skills or make some isk.

but no they went straight for the wallet shot Roll
Are the only valid uses are the ones explicitly stated in that particular ad?

More importantly how is extracting SP to give to new players somehow less of a "wallet shot" than redistributing your SP. The cost is the same for the SP you want to part with either way, so what makes appealing to one stated goal morally reprehensible compared to another?


CCP have Trashed this game

http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Stromgren


Ironbank who ever he is 2016 toon over 475M SP. total joke on CCP what a waste of 10 years of paying CCP sub to get to 220mill SP
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2140 - 2016-02-17 21:30:48 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So a promise broken before it was made is somehow a promise you still believe? .
Freelancer117 wrote:
The Company broke the accord they made with us Capsuleers in 2011 after the Incarna expansion:

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

Regards, Freelancer
From here.
Question still stands. The timeline is as such, Bazaar and time codes - 2003, PLEX - 2009? I think?, The promise not to give advantages for cash - 2011, MCTCs - 2013.

So we had cash capable advantages via GTC/PLEX since the beginning, but a line from a blog overrides that somehow?

Berrice Silf wrote:
Im trying to find the part about it helping the new player, must be in the small print:

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is great whenever you want to respec your skills, customize your skill tree or make some ISK.

Really really small print.

EDIT:
Ok from a marketing stand point and all the horse crap we were fed over this in the original blog don't you think the advert should of atleast led with :

Skill Extractors allow you to extract skillpoints from your character, which is a great way to introduce your friends or corp mates to a speedier introduction into the vast eve universe. you could alternatively customize your skills or make some isk.

but no they went straight for the wallet shot Roll
Are the only valid uses are the ones explicitly stated in that particular ad?

More importantly how is extracting SP to give to new players somehow less of a "wallet shot" than redistributing your SP. The cost is the same for the SP you want to part with either way, so what makes appealing to one stated goal morally reprehensible compared to another?
what's with your playing dumb approach ??
Rise stated that rapid respeccing of skills was not the stated goal now the first line of the ad is respecing of skills, when helmar released his grovel letter about the money and time it drew a line under all that has previously passed, from 2012 clean slate no under handed tactics, MCTC are not under handed no different than having multiple accounts until now where you can use the slots as farming characters to increase the main or sell.