Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So what, now we should discuss bumping and safe looting in the light of fact that gankers have to field 15+ characters in catalysts (and characters is there for a reason)? What about ganks when they use Taloses and it takes 7-8 guys to gank a cargo expanded freighter? Are we gonna base our calculations on t1 or t2 fit ships? What about skills? I mean, so many variables come to mind...

Good news, it's almost impossible to bump a hauler that gets webbed before the first bump lands; primarily because it's generally in warp by the time the bumper is in a position to bump it.

Looting is only as safe as you allow it to be, the number of gankers on field is irrelevant to that particular aspect as it only takes one player in a freighter to loot another freighters wreck. As for calculations, you base it on T2 fit ships, T1 fits are used by budding gankers and generally against miners or shitfit T1 haulers.

So far in this thread you have been given multiple ways for haulers to avoid being bumped, and hence ganked and looted. You've poo-pooed every one of them as either unworkable, which they're not, or too much effort, which they're also not; as evidenced by the success of those haulers among us that do make the time and effort to employ those methods and don't get bumped, ganked and looted, I know of at least 3 such haulers that have posted in this very thread.

You appear to want the bumping and looting mechanics balanced around the stupidity and laziness of the people who fall victim to those that use the mechanics to their full extent; the thing is that CCP can't fix stupid or lazy, nor should they try to do so. Eve is hard, it's even harder if you're dumb.

TL;DR your desperation is showing and it's not pretty, put it away.

Well it seems that eve is actually easy if you understand how to min/max its mechanics, which freighter ganking groups have done throughout the years. There's nothing smart about it, its just the result on focusing on one activity and learning about all the ways how to use every loophole included. Quite like some incursion groups figured out how to max out their playstyle, for example.
While that is commendable, it does not remove the fact that a) bumping freighters in hisec in its current form is stupid for all the reasons which have been already laid down and b) looting which circumvents suspect mechanics is also stupid.

I know that people want to protect their minmaxing game play, that's understandable, but it doesn't mean that we'll stop pointing out just how broken it is.

CODE. would like a word, they're essentially a bunch of randoms from hisec and they manage to field similar numbers to MiniLuv on a regular basis.

Those things inherently include ganking, you can't exclude it when discussing hisec bumping and looting; it's like talking about the raising of livestock for food and what comes out of the oven without talking about how it gets there.

What's not smart about it? Knowing every little nuance of your chosen trade makes Eve easier, not easy.

Understanding how to min/max mechanics and tools automatically disqualifies those that do so from falling into the stupid bracket. I haul, among other things, my survival as a hauler in space depends on me min/maxing the mechanics and tools available to me, it also depends on understanding the mechanics and tools available to those that would like to steal my cargo and dress up my corpse*.

What's broken is your unwillingness to do as they have done, learn how a profession works, and then honing that into something between industrialisation and art.

Your concerns boil down to "Why do we (AG) keep getting our collective arse handed to us by people that are prepared to put in more effort than we are?"



*sly potential bump for an epic thread.

Code is a group specifically dedicated to ganking, with quite a few of their chars being alts of various nullsec duders and with tight connections with CFC. There is nothing random about them.


Sorry, but what profession exactly. Do note that you can be a ganker exclusively and live off of that in this game, but you can't be an anti-ganker exclusively and claim the same. For people who have been in the game for long enough, income is not a major concern, but for quite a few people that is not the case. Yes, helping people is nice but it doesn't buy you a new ship. Isk aside, the fact that gankers have perfected their ways means that they absolutely dictate the engagement. You can have all the logi, dps, ecm and whatever else you want to have in this world but if you can't know where they're going to hit - it is pretty useless and it's all because of bumping. It skews the game into their favour by a large margin, which is probably why they are so vocal and full of vitriol when someone asks for changes regarding that mechanic.


I don't understand what handling of the arse you refer to, but ok. I'm trying to point out some things which relate to ganking which are broken and which, if taken away, would not make ganking any less possible than it is right now. It would make it more consequence laden but that is (supposingly) the founding idea of the game.

A couple of general comments on this thread.

All you guys are awesome! Some much love and hate all rolled into a thread that has pretty much been around in one form or another for several years. It's in epic accomplishment.



If your freighter (whatever) is stacked up and being bumped for hours - your corp pretty much sucksdonkeyballs. Seriously. I'm in a small (<10 real people) corp. We were scattered all over HS (getting ready to invade a wh to set up a home) here's how the conversation went:

A "I'm getting bumped by a mach in Niarja"
Me "You noob, are you screwed?"
A "yes"
Me "everyone drop everything, get a webber and get to Niarja"
B "I'm bringing a scimmi, it's in route"
Me "how far out is everyone"
Fleet channel scrolls w/ 9J up 26J
Me "make best speed"

5 minutes later the first webber was on scene. He started coordinating trying to web the orca out. This is where we realized that 1 webber wouldn't do it. 2 minutes after that we had 3 webbers on scene and the scimmi there also. 10 minutes into it we were amazed to discover that 6 webs (any number) were useless. 12 minutes into it the white knight Kronos starts messing w/ the bumping mach and I call for 2 guys to bring cruisers w/ mwd to bump the mach. Before they arrive the Kronos scores big and we get the orca out.

So, if your freighter is bounced for hours - blame your corp. They should have been there. If you're hauling solo or as a member of an npc corp - you're taking a calculated risk. It's that simple. This freighter bumping and ganking thing is a known part of eve. If you're in the game long enough to be able to pilot a freighter - you've been in the game long enough to do the research on how to keep it safe.

Tips to prevent being ganked:
1. Scout the gate (use a ship that gets a webbing range bonus) - if there is a mach (or 2 or 3) there, think about your next move carefully
2. Be ready to web that thing as soon as it starts to align (immediate webbing isn't good, play around w/ when webbing is most effective for getting a freighter into warp in a slow system so everyone UNDERSTANDS the mechanics involved before you jump into Niarja)
3. If a bumper gets into you - don't panic. Do call for everyone to get there to get you out of your jam.
4. Things that help: A couple of webs. A couple of repping ships. MOST IMPORTANTLY - ships to bump the mach.
5. Your last resort is to web/scram the mach (bring a cheap ship that can catch it and complete the task).

PRO TIP: You don't have to jump into Niarja via the normal Amarr-Jita pipe route. Add 3 jumps and come in from a side gate.
PRO TIP: Patience and timing are big in preventing the bump (wait until they are busy w/ other prey - for example)
PRO TIP: If there is no one you can call in to help you - "yer sclewed laddybuck"

I know, right. Even though it's silly to do it, somehow I love it


Re your tips you forgot:
- never accept webbing offers from folks you don't know, even when they claim to be anti-gankers. More often then not, you'll just get killed.
- join in-game chanels Gank-Intel and Anti-ganking. Quite often people will report active ganking groups there and every now and then random good Samaritans will from up to try and save you. Althought not often, there have been freighters saved from bumping/ganking. Might not work, but it's better then nothing.

aaaaand signing off
o7

While CODE. itself is biased towards ganking and the public face of the New Order, they do have a lot of participants that aren't members of the alliance but that are randoms from hisec; they're pretty inclusive when it comes to who they fly with tbh, there's more than a few miners and industrialists that fly with them for example.

Have you considered you can't do this because AG as a collective sucks in terms of organisation, coordination and, judging by yourself, may be ignorant of the mechanics in play?

It's not true of all who oppose ganking by any means, but it's certainly true of the most vocal; including yourself.

That's your problem, not mine. Do as the gankers do, have diverse and alternative sources of income, btw gank ships are profitable to kill and loot.

So you're butthurt that gankers have managed to do something you have not, master the task at hand in order to be able to do it in the most efficient manner. Knowing where they're going to hit is a fairly simple piece of deduction, trade route chokepoints are a firm favourite every time.

Hell they advertise the really big ones months in advance and people still flock to the slaughter in their loot piñatas like moths to the flame.

Your collective arse is referring to the fact that you're not successful by any stretch of the imagination; gankers beat you every time a freighter explodes. If you want to see more consequences for ganking then it is up to you to provide them, the fact that you don't like the penalties involved in being a vigilante is what holds you back; FYI vigilantism in the real world also has penalties.

This lie again huh. Never have anything new in the carebear playbook, so they're bound to repeat themselves I suppose.

It's a strange argument indeed. I mean I could argue that freighter EHP should be increased ten-fold and claim that it would not make ganking "any less possible" as it would still, in fact, be possible to explode a freighter. But it would be completely disingenuous to claim that that buff to EHP wouldn't have a major effect on the ease, profitability and thus number of freighter kills that would occur after such a change.

If you want to make an argument that there is a problem with too much ganking, or even that you don't like it in the game, at least have the self-respect to make an intellectually honest argument to the reason why you are advocating for changes to looting or bumping. Weaseling around the obvious effects such a nerf would have on the profession of ganking by trying to claim that since it is still possible to gank something it is not a nerf is not going to convince anyone, let alone CCP.