Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I just went and looked at the Anshar losses for the last 3 months.

From 1 November 2015 - 31 January 2016

Nullsec: 6 losses
Lowsec: 23 losses
Highsec: 37 losses

The Highsec losses divide to:

Legal Target (eg. wardec, killright activation): 25 losses
Gank: 12 losses

So for 12 pilots, who could have totally avoided their loss by simply having a cyno ready to light in lowsec, they should be given special protection, but none of the others should?

What's so special about highsec that those 12 ships deserve special treatment over the 54 others, to compensate for mistakes they made?

Surely if they were dumb enough not to have an exit cyno, then they should suffer the consequence of that poor decision; just like all the others that died?

Are you an idiot?

You can warp to wrecks on grid, so people blew them up to deny the warp in point.

Jesus Christ, this is not as hard as you are making it.

I would like to know this myself. When you can have almost guaranteed safe passage, why does bumping or looting need a nerf?

I chose jump freighters because I expect the numbers are lower overall, so it was an easier task to look at quickly (and yes, despite having an easy out, still players fail to protect themselves).

I'm sure the freighter losses would be similar in terms of a spread between legal targets and non-legal targets. Freighters also do have an out - use webs.

In neither situation is the out provided to the pilot alone. An Anshar needs a cyno and a Freighter needs webs.

So the same question still applies. Why do those that fail to protect themselves with the outs they have deserve special treatment compared to any others and compared to other classes of ships?

Whether any of us guess that it might not be an enjoyable experience isn't necessarily a valid reason to make a change in the game. Eve isn't about always feeling safe and happy. If we want to feel safe and happy, that's up to us. Same for the assumption that bumping has cost the game players.

How have you validated your assumption that bumping costs the game players? Do you know this is true, or it's just a hunch?

What data has been looked at, which is a question I've been asking throughout this thread. Where's the evidence that bumping is an issue for the game that needs to be fixed. Not biased views either way, just objective evidence that we can all see and conclude - yes there's a problem?

What if your hunch is wrong?

Putting it the other way, the most up to date objective evidence from the largest and most reputable hauling Corp in the game shows the overall risk of being ganked in highsec is at most 1 in 1000 hauling contracts and 1 in 12000 jumps in highsec.

Why make a change in the game mechanics when the risk is just 1 in every 1000 contracts, 1 in every 12000 jumps in highsec for haulers?

Those figures include not only ganks, but other reasons for failed contracts including expired contracts and theft. So the real risk of being ganked is less than 1 in 1000 contracts and less than 1 in 12000 jumps in highsec, but conservatively we don't know the breakdown so it's better to say that is all from ganks; and still the risk is small.

So where is the evidence that there is a problem that requires the game to be changed?


Because in low and null you can just tackle and hold with a scram, completely turning off the MJD and making it useless.

It is a proposal that would only work for illegal targets in highsec (and then not even because of the reasons outlined). It wouldn't even work for legal targets in highsec, since they can also be scrammed for as long as needed.

Correct, this is the problem. Thank you for seeing it. It should be a hostile act. Smashing into someone's ship continuously for 30 minutes to an hour is hostile. I just saw it happen Saturday night. I had to log off at 1 hour of bumping (With a Webber also! ), so It might have been longer. I have a video clip of it that picks up at 1500Km from the gate (already 40 minutes). THe clip is another 20 minutes.

I don't think bumping should be a criminal act, that would be too much. If the penalty is tied to the bumper, it would be invalidated when they bring in the 2nd bumper, it the bumping starts over. It must focus on the freighter, On the same grid as the gates/stations. Im sure Concord's or the station's sensors could pick up continuous shield impacts on one repeated target. Dispatch ships to investigate, web the bumping ship(s) and the freighter for 30 seconds while the Freighter could align and warp.

As someone mentioned also about the looting. Yes, if a ship was ganked. Who ever picks up the loot or ejects it, or puts it into a cargo hold of another neutral, that ship goes FY. Its the source of the loot that makes it suspect, then once it makes it to station the loot is clear of the suspect status.

Your examples.. are great! like you said.. Bubbled in Null, or trapped in a WH. Both of those environments are very hostile. If you want to go extort people, head there. There, you should have a fleet of people to escort a Freighter. Makes 100%. In HS, neither of those things apply. So the mechanics of being held hostage by someone in highsec should not happen.

lol! I did laugh at that one!

What were they doing, not much. They can't do much. That is the problem. If they were AFK i am less sympathetic. But many were not, I conv'ed most of them and they were there.

Punish them immediately... so remove the concord delay?

Then how would you punsh them later? they are all -10.. flying Catalysts. Not really a punishment if you pop them later. They only undock on the way to a gank. You going to hang out and Anti-Gank them then? If so that would be great!

But they can. There has been a wealth of useful things listed in this thread that a freighter pilot can do both to avoid that situation, and to get out of it.

And if he really both has no friends and did not bring an escort, then he deserves what he gets. Self destruct.

There is always a way out.

All of space is supposed to carry some degree of risk in the game. There are only two risk “free” locations in the game:

1. Docked in station
2. Sitting cloaked at a secret safe spot.

Everything else carries with it risk. I had a friend in game get podded in HS once. He convo’d the guy and asked why he did it. The response was, I was bored and thought what the heck. My friend was pissed. He had to start his journey over and he lost some expensive (for him) implants. I asked him what he was going to do about it, he said, “Always use at least shuttle or noob ship when travelling”. He learned a painful yet valuable lesson.

In regards to being bumped for a long time. The first mistake is to not log off if you get into that situation. If the gankers are so ill-prepared as to not have a fleet to get you within 15-20 minutes there is also a damn good chance they don’t have a noob ship on standby to aggress the freighter. So, log off right away. It may not work, but the longer you wait the greater the likelihood they’ll get their act together.

Given that there are mechanics to “solve” this problem already in game, I see no reason to make HS any safer than it already is, especially 0.5 systems. So there it is, a philosophical difference. You don’t see the game the same as your opponents. You want a theme park, we don’t. Which what Kaarous and others has been saying all along, the issue is really one of attitude.

And spare me the, “I don’t want a theme park,” response because this part of your response…“If you want to go extort people, head there.” Screams THEME PARK for HS.